How DNR will use Discover Pass $

[bigtex]

As we all know DNR will be getting 8% of the Discover Pass funds. Once the total revenue for the 2-year budget cycle exceeds $71M then WDFW, DNR and Parks will each get an equal share of the funds. As of 9/6 the expected revenue for this budget biennium which ends 6/30/2013 is $60M. DNR has issued it's plan on how it will spend it's share of the Discover Pass funds. The following numbers are based on the sales of the Discover Pass actually hitting that $60M mark by 6/30/2013.

$41,500 Outreach and Communications
$1,150,000 Facility Development
$595,000 Enforcement and Education
$1,080,000 Non-motorized recreation
$1,400,000 Motorized recreation

Once again, this is depending on the Discover Pass to actually bring in $60M by the end of June 2013.

I also want to bring up this. The funding for DNR Enforcement is very odd, different then other state LE agencies. DNR Enforcement is essentially funded by grants and the agency putting money together to fund an enforcement program. It is not like WDFW for example where you could look in the budget and see how much money is to be spent on enforcement. Because of this DNR Enforcement can vary from year to year. For example DNR is currently in the process of filling two brand new positions (1 in Bremerton to cover Kitsap and Mason, the other in Vancouver to cover Clark and Skamania).

I also want to note that neither DNR, WDFW, or Parks get any of the fine money from the Discover Pass violations.

[JimmyHoffa]

So, if they don't get the fine money...who does?  In the other thread of the guys wanting to go to court to make a statement, the fine they would probably have to pay goes elsewhere, while they have had to make the DNR/WDFW officer spend the day in court--is that how it would work?  Basically drain DNR/WDFW enforcement and they won't recuperate lost funds?  So it's like a double-whammy to those agencies.

[Huntbear]

So where does the other 92% of the Discover Pass Funds go?  if the DNR is only getting 8 %....

I thought this POS tax/fee/whatever you want to call it, was for the parks and DNR....   8% really???  Glad they do not have any of my money in that account...   

[bobcat]

8% to the WDFW and 84% to State Parks. (thought everyone knew that by now)   

[bigtex]

So, if they don't get the fine money...who does?  In the other thread of the guys wanting to go to court to make a statement, the fine they would probably have to pay goes elsewhere, while they have had to make the DNR/WDFW officer spend the day in court--is that how it would work?  Basically drain DNR/WDFW enforcement and they won't recuperate lost funds?  So it's like a double-whammy to those agencies.

The Discover Pass violation is a parking ticket which is different from the old WDFW Pass which was a non-traffic infraction, similar to a barbed hook, no hunter orange or drinking in public violation. If you simply contest the ticket an officer will not and is not required to appear. You must request the officer to appear. I'd probably say 99% of the non-traffic infraction contested hearings the officer is not required to appear, and probably 90% of the traffic infractions the officer is not required to appear. So when people say they are going to contest the ticket so they can see the officer, the officer will most likely not be there because he is not requried to be there.

As far as the fine money goes it gets distributed like all other RCW/WAC tickets. The majority goes to the general fund and some goes to the county where the ticket is written.

There are only a couple classification of offenses in which the fines are not deposited in this way. Two that come to mind are RCW 77 (Fish and Wildlife) and RCW 76.48 (Forest Products).

With RCW 77 violations the money either goes to the county OR the general fund, it is up to the county and it depends on payments regarding WDFW lands in their county. Usually about 30 counties give the RCW 77 money to the general fund, and about 9 keep the RCW 77 money. The only exception is the criminal wildlife penalty assessment fines which are only applicable to actual big game cases in which an big game animal was illegally taken, those funds are given to the WDFW Fish and Wildlife Enforcement Account.

With RCW 76.48 (such as no forest product permit for posessing over 10 gallons of mushrooms) the money gets deposited with 1/3 going to the county sheriff's office, 1/3 going to the county court, and 1/3 going to the state to be deposited into the specialized forest products outreach and education account.

So when people say WDFW is just writing tickets so they can get more funding into WDFW. That's not really true because the money is either going to the county, or the general fund, and every year WDFW is getting less from the general fund. Only that small percentage of illegal take of big game animals have $ going to WDFW Enforcement. This fine distribution is statewide and doesn't matter what agency (except feds, see below) wrote the ticket. So if a WSP Trooper writes a hunting ticket it will be handled the same way as if a WDFW Officer wrote it.

The only time Fish/Wildlife and forest product violation fines aren’t handled this way is if you are issued a federal citation. Some federal officers (USFS, NPS, BLM, USFWS) can issue state AND federal tickets, others can only issue federal tickets. If you are issued a state ticket by a federal officer then the fine is handled like WDFW. But if you are issued a federal ticket it goes into a federal crime victim awareness fund. All federal citations issued by all federal officers no matter what the offense are deposited into this fund. All of the federal land management agencies have an offense which basically says it is a violation of federal law to violate state hunting and fishing laws while on those federal lands.

[fireweed]

For everyone who is buying the pass to hunt on DNR land, here's a thought.  Of the 60-million total it looks like a grand total of $595,000 will be spent on something (enforcement) that might affect YOU.  The rest goes to what the law intended in the first place: developed recreation facilities.  Somehow the DNR twisted the law from a parking pass at Developed and designated sites to an entry fee for timberlands.  As I get ready to head to the woods for deer season, and I must buy my second Discover Pass for may hunting rig, sure gives me a warm fuzzy feeling on $60 bucks flushed.

[pianoman9701]

For everyone who is buying the pass to hunt on DNR land, here's a thought.  Of the 60-million total it looks like a grand total of $595,000 will be spent on something (enforcement) that might affect YOU.  The rest goes to what the law intended in the first place: developed recreation facilities.  Somehow the DNR twisted the law from a parking pass at Developed and designated sites to an entry fee for timberlands.  As I get ready to head to the woods for deer season, and I must buy my second Discover Pass for may hunting rig, sure gives me a warm fuzzy feeling on $60 bucks flushed.

I agree. There should at least be space for two license plates on the pass.

[fireweed]

How about everyone send a "polite" note to the DNR requesting that a portion of the Discover Pass funding be used to acquire access to DNR lands for hunting.  Many Blocks of landlocked DNR could become legally accessible to the public--especially now that we're paying to go there (if we can get there).  That could actually benefit a major group of pass buyers--sportsmen.

[pianoman9701]

I just sent this email to licensing@dfw.wa.gov, where they field questions for the Discover Pass. Any of you who'd like to do the same are encouraged to do the same.


Dear Sirs, Madams,

My family has two rigs - my jeep for hunting and our family car for family trips. With your current system, we have to buy two discovery passes for one family. When I purchase my hunting license, I'm covered for both of our family's vehicles on one parking permit. Please tell me if this is something you're considering changing. Is it possible that because hunters are already paying so much into the system that our Discover pass have space for two license plates? I expect there are other options, as well.

I belong to the www.Hunting-washington.com forum and am the chair of the Legislative committee for Washington for Wildlife. This question is on a lot of minds, especially considering that most of us buy the pass only for hunting and only 8% of the funds collected go to DNR, where we spend our hunting time. Although many of us realize that these funds are necessary to continue receiving the services and access to these lands and facilities, we already pay for WDFW parking passes with our hunting licenses (which also just increased). Having to buy two Discover passes is a bit much for most of us. It represents a 60% hike in fees to hunt the same land and animals that we've been hunting all along. Combined with the license increases, we're talking about an extremely heavy burden on WA hunters.

I look forward to your response so I can pass it along to the other 10,000 members of our site. Thank you for your consideration of my request.

[bigtex]

How about everyone send a "polite" note to the DNR requesting that a portion of the Discover Pass funding be used to acquire access to DNR lands for hunting.  Many Blocks of landlocked DNR could become legally accessible to the public--especially now that we're paying to go there (if we can get there).  That could actually benefit a major group of pass buyers--sportsmen.

People need to remember that DNR is not there to maintain public access to their lands for recreation or other purposes, that is WDFW and State Parks' purpose. DNR is to own land so that the state can make $ of the timber and other resources. Subsequent use of the land for hunting and other recreation is lower on the list behind making money for the state.

This is a reason why DNR has been getting rid of many of their lands that have no timber value. If you were to make a proposal to DNR to buy 1,000 acres and the only reason you said they should buy it is for hunting, it would get rejected and they would say call WDFW. BLM and DNR have done some land swaps in the past 20 years.

BLM owns quite a bit of land-locked timber in NE WA, while DNR still owns a lot of desert land. BLM is there for recreation and it doesn't make sense for them to have landlocked land. So DNR gave BLM the desert lands while BLM gave DNR the landlocked timber areas.

[bigtex]

I just sent this email to licensing@dfw.wa.gov, where they field questions for the Discover Pass. Any of you who'd like to do the same are encouraged to do the same.


Dear Sirs, Madams,

My family has two rigs - my jeep for hunting and our family car for family trips. With your current system, we have to buy two discovery passes for one family. When I purchase my hunting license, I'm covered for both of our family's vehicles on one parking permit. Please tell me if this is something you're considering changing. Is it possible that because hunters are already paying so much into the system that our Discover pass have space for two license plates? I expect there are other options, as well.

I belong to the www.Hunting-washington.com forum and am the chair of the Legislative committee for Washington for Wildlife. This question is on a lot of minds, especially considering that most of us buy the pass only for hunting and only 8% of the funds collected go to DNR, where we spend our hunting time. Although many of us realize that these funds are necessary to continue receiving the services and access to these lands and facilities, we already pay for WDFW parking passes with our hunting licenses (which also just increased). Having to buy two Discover passes is a bit much for most of us. It represents a 60% hike in fees to hunt the same land and animals that we've been hunting all along. Combined with the license increases, we're talking about an extremely heavy burden on WA hunters.

I look forward to your response so I can pass it along to the other 10,000 members of our site. Thank you for your consideration of my request.

The legislature is already looking at the single vehicle issue. People need to remember that it is not the agency that makes the rules, it is the legislature. The legislature made numerous changes to the law before it was passed.

[bigtex]

Somehow the DNR twisted the law from a parking pass at Developed and designated sites to an entry fee for timberlands.  As I get ready to head to the woods for deer season, and I must buy my second Discover Pass for may hunting rig, sure gives me a warm fuzzy feeling on $60 bucks flushed.

DNR did not twist the law. The legislature twisted the law. The law says it is required to operate on DNR developed and designated areas. If the legislature wanted it to only be a parking pass they would not have put the word "operate" in the law.

[bobcat]

I think it was up to the DNR where it would be required. That's where the "designated" word comes in. The pass is required in any area that the DNR designates as a recreational area. A lot of the areas they have designated as such, are nothing more than forested blocks of land with logging roads runnning through them. There are no hiking trails, parking lots, camping areas, nothing.

[pianoman9701]

The legislature is already looking at the single vehicle issue. People need to remember that it is not the agency that makes the rules, it is the legislature. The legislature made numerous changes to the law before it was passed.

Yes Bigtex, but the DFW is consulted by the legislature when considering changes to these programs. Letting the DFW know our concerns is not fruitless at all.

[bobcat]

I need space for four license plates on my Discover pass.   

[bigtex]

The legislature is already looking at the single vehicle issue. People need to remember that it is not the agency that makes the rules, it is the legislature. The legislature made numerous changes to the law before it was passed.

Yes Bigtex, but the DFW is consulted by the legislature when considering changes to these programs. Letting the DFW know our concerns is not fruitless at all.

Yes and no. State agencies can provide their input, but there have been many times where the legislature takes that input and goes in a completely different way. For example a couple years ago WDFW wanted a ban on feeding wildlife. By the time the bill made it through committee WDFW no longer supported the bill.

However the legislature is already looking at changes to the pass including using it on more then one vehicle and some type of a window decal opposed to the hanger.

[bigtex]

I think it was up to the DNR where it would be required. That's where the "designated" word comes in. The pass is required in any area that the DNR designates as a recreational area. A lot of the areas they have designated as such, are nothing more than forested blocks of land with logging roads runnning through them. There are no hiking trails, parking lots, camping areas, nothing.

It is up to the DNR to decide where it is required, no doubt about that. But people have been saying that DNR made it more then just a parking pass, that is false, in the law it says to operate on DNR lands. Had the legislature wanted it to be a parking pass they should have made it a requirement to park on DNR lands, not to operate on those lands.

[Wazukie]

Simple answer to all this, Repeal the law.  We need someone like Iman to set it up, get the signatures and put it to a vote of the people.  Legislature should never enact laws, nor should they have the power to do so, with out a vote of the people.  Plane and simple. I will not buy one.

[fireweed]

Looking at the history of the language in the bill tells a story of how this process works (or how to work the process to get what you want!)

Original Proposed Bill: "Recreation site or lands" means those areas of state-owned or
 managed lands designated by an agency where the discover pass or day-
 use permit is required.  (This is what agencies originally Wanted--Anywhere They Chose to require a pass)

1st substitute Bill: "Recreation lands" means a state park or any area managed by an agency for outdoor recreation or fish and wildlife
 conservation including water access areas, boat ramps, wildlife areas,parking areas, roads, trailheads, and trails under ownership,management, lease, or control of the agency, or "public lands" as defined in RCW 79.02.010. (The definition appears to limit the pass to areas  lands managed for outdoor recreation, but then tosses in public lands at the end)

2nd substitute bill and Passed by Legislature: "Recreation site or lands" means a state park or fish and wildlife conservation sites including water access areas, boat ramps,wildlife areas, parking areas, roads, and trailheads, or department of natural resources developed or designated recreation areas, sites, trailheads, and parking areas
[i
](the final Bill APPEARS to finally tighten up definition to sites where recreation improvements have been made ie. developed sites and designated sites.   I was watching this bill closely and at the time it passed, the DNR website had a list of "designated recreation sites" that only included campgrounds/trailheads etc, so I figured we were ok for hunting on timberland.  EXCEPT that murky and undefined "designated" word allowed the DNR to simply draw lines on  maps and then say they were now "designated recreation areas" and required the pass.    Seems like the DNR got what they wanted all along despite the legislators efforts to limit the pass to developed sites. [/i] 

[pianoman9701]

Here's the reply from WDFW regarding a second plate on the Discover Pass:

"nfortunately, the Discover Pass is non-transferrable and only valid for
one vehicle. The Discover Pass legislation specifically states the pass
applies to one vehicle. A change to this would have to be done through
the Discover Pass committee and Legislation.

The Vehicle Access Pass that you receive with your Fishing (or Hunting)
License is a "complimentary" Pass that comes with your license, that you
do not purchase, therefore, it only allows you to access Department of
Fish & Wildlife Lands and/or water access sites. The Discover Pass
allows access to any state recreation lands and water access sites
managed by Washington State Parks (State Parks), Washington Department
of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) or Washington State Department of Natural
Resources (DNR). These lands include state parks, water access points,
heritage sites, wildlife and natural areas, trails and trailheads.

For more information please go to the Discover Pass Frequently Asked
Questions at: http://discoverpass.wa.gov/faq/ OR to the Discover Pass
Home Page a: http://discoverpass.wa.gov/

If you feel your questions regarding the Discover Pass was not answered
adequately, you may also contact us directly by phone at: toll-free
(866) 320-9933.

Thank you,

Customer Service Specialist 2
WDFW Licensing
Olympia, WA 98501
(360) 902-2464"