I-1183 Liquor Initiative

[bigtex]

My view:
This will just increase profits for large corporate retailers.

As opposed to the small retailers that profit now? You would rather the state keep taking all the profit? Seems to me they have not shown the best track record of spending that money wisely.

It should be noted that in the 2011 fiscal year the Liquor Control Board contributed $71 million to cities and counties for law enforcement and alcohol education/prevention. $345 million went to the general fund which funds most state agencies, the biggest being k-12 education.

It should be noted that the Liquor Control Board is the only state agency that brings in more money then it spends.....

[frostman]

We need to QUIT throwing more money at "schools". How many of you think that your tax dollars are being properly allocated? We keep throwing more money at our problems and not getting good results.

Government needs to be rolled back, especially at the state and federal level. What needs to be addressed is the promises made to state and federal unions as well as the tenure system for teachers, which is the biggest problem regarding education. The union mentality is what is draining our resources and it is NOT producing positive results.

A good place for us to begin to roll back state government is privatizing liquor sales. I will vote yes for anything that rolls back government and no against anything that raises taxes, even if it is "for the kids".

Yeah lets cut back on our kids so we can pay $5 less a bottle for idiot juice!! The average college professor makes 60k, how is that too high as to be a major problem in their budget requiring hundreds of millions to be taken out of KID'S the education system? What should a college professor earn?

Come on man! You really believe that the current education system is working? I would agree that the best teachers and proffessors should be well compensated, but yes the AVERAGE LIBERAL college proffessor under our current system based on tenure is probably worth no more that $60K. If you keep falling for the liberal trick of "we're doing it for the kids" then you are part of the problem not part of the solution.

[Mike450r]

12 gallons for consumption.  CAN'T SELL OR TRADE IT!

Not true,  you need to get a license to distill through the department of licensing regardless of personal use or for sale.

[xd2005]

My view:
This will just increase profits for large corporate retailers.

As opposed to the small retailers that profit now? You would rather the state keep taking all the profit? Seems to me they have not shown the best track record of spending that money wisely.

It should be noted that in the 2011 fiscal year the Liquor Control Board contributed $71 million to cities and counties for law enforcement and alcohol education/prevention. $345 million went to the general fund which funds most state agencies, the biggest being k-12 education.

It should be noted that the Liquor Control Board is the only state agency that brings in more money then it spends.....

Not disagreeing, but it should also be noted that when you force people to buy something only from you it isn't too hard to bring in more money than you spend. Imagine if the state forced people to buy milk, eggs, cars, etc from them. Just think of all the tax money they could generate!

I will note, I have not read the bill yet (so don't know how I will vote), but how much will the state be actually losing? Tax dollars will remain the same, if not significantly increase due to increased sales. I'm guessing the markup will go away for the state? Along with expenses for stores, employees, etc, so just not sure how much of a net impact that will have, but I could easily see them coming out ahead still.

[pianoman9701]

It could actually increase tax revenue, as competition would lower prices and many who cross borders to buy booze elsewhere might find it's now close enough to buy in state. Still not decided.

[steeleywhopper]

Get the state out of the liquor business!
 The state provides the booze, pulls you over and says you can't drink it, gives you a ticket and fines you heavily, then makes you pay them to go to their treatment programs. Sounds to me like they should be able to be sued for any type of DUI deaths or accidents. Why no one has sued them yet I have no idea. They have quite the racket going on if you ask me. Let them be enforcement instead of the supplier and pusher. My opinion and I'm not sorry if I offended you or you don't like it.

[Skyvalhunter]

Not sorry Steve thats a bit harsh!! Well you know that Costco has a vested intrest in this good or bad you make the call. Will it put small buisnesses out of buisness? Possibly.

[300rum]

It should also be noted, respectfully, that the Liquor Control Board nor any other government agency gave anyone anything that wasn't taken from someone else. 

My view:
This will just increase profits for large corporate retailers.

As opposed to the small retailers that profit now? You would rather the state keep taking all the profit? Seems to me they have not shown the best track record of spending that money wisely.

It should be noted that in the 2011 fiscal year the Liquor Control Board contributed $71 million to cities and counties for law enforcement and alcohol education/prevention. $345 million went to the general fund which funds most state agencies, the biggest being k-12 education.

It should be noted that the Liquor Control Board is the only state agency that brings in more money then it spends.....

[Armadillo]

We need to QUIT throwing more money at "schools". How many of you think that your tax dollars are being properly allocated? We keep throwing more money at our problems and not getting good results.

Government needs to be rolled back, especially at the state and federal level. What needs to be addressed is the promises made to state and federal unions as well as the tenure system for teachers, which is the biggest problem regarding education. The union mentality is what is draining our resources and it is NOT producing positive results.

A good place for us to begin to roll back state government is privatizing liquor sales. I will vote yes for anything that rolls back government and no against anything that raises taxes, even if it is "for the kids".

Yeah lets cut back on our kids so we can pay $5 less a bottle for idiot juice!! The average college professor makes 60k, how is that too high as to be a major problem in their budget requiring hundreds of millions to be taken out of KID'S the education system? What should a college professor earn?

Come on man! You really believe that the current education system is working? I would agree that the best teachers and proffessors should be well compensated, but yes the AVERAGE LIBERAL college proffessor under our current system based on tenure is probably worth no more that $60K. If you keep falling for the liberal trick of "we're doing it for the kids" then you are part of the problem not part of the solution.

Well as Big Tex states 345 million undisputedly went to k-12 education.... I just dont see taking that money away as the lesser of two evils as far as valuating the "well being" of our education system. When that money dries up, what then?

[xd2005]

Well as Big Tex states 345 million undisputedly went to k-12 education.... I just dont see taking that money away as the lesser of two evils as far as valuating the "well being" of our education system. When that money dries up, what then?

Where has it undisputedly been stated that revenues to the state will decrease? At least one report shows revenues will actually INCREASE. Also, the bill doubles existing fines and penalties to retailers.

[bigtex]

Well as Big Tex states 345 million undisputedly went to k-12 education.... I just dont see taking that money away as the lesser of two evils as far as valuating the "well being" of our education system. When that money dries up, what then?

Also, the bill doubles existing fines and penalties to retailers.

The statement about the doubling the fines is fuzzy. The LCB is the agency that sets the fine for stores under the WAC. When stores are cited they are cited under the WAC while people are cited under RCW and somtimes both a RCW and WAC. Initiatives cannot change the WAC, but only the RCW. So what the initiative basically says is the LCB should double the fines, but they are not forced to because the initative cannot do that legally.

The initiative does nothing to increase or toughen the criminal penalties on the individual that sold the product to the minor. And who's fault is it the clerk sold to a minor, the store or the clerk?

[cmiller85]

Well as Big Tex states 345 million undisputedly went to k-12 education.... I just dont see taking that money away as the lesser of two evils as far as valuating the "well being" of our education system. When that money dries up, what then?

The initiative does nothing to increase or toughen the criminal penalties on the individual that sold the product to the minor. And who's fault is it the clerk sold to a minor, the store or the clerk?

Personally, my answer would be neither. As in, its neither the store clerk's fault or the store's fault. Why is it someone else's fault that some minor decided to break the law in the first place by purchasing liquor? It seems silly when you get down to the root of the problem (the minor).

If I shoplift, why is it not the store's fault for not stopping me?

Heck, why isn't it the cop's or government's fault that there is even crime at all?

These are rediculous arguments of course because people should be held accountable for their own actions. I say make it a $10,000 fine for an MIP or MIC and see what kind of problems you have with underage drinking.

[Armadillo]

Well as Big Tex states 345 million undisputedly went to k-12 education.... I just dont see taking that money away as the lesser of two evils as far as valuating the "well being" of our education system. When that money dries up, what then?

The initiative does nothing to increase or toughen the criminal penalties on the individual that sold the product to the minor. And who's fault is it the clerk sold to a minor, the store or the clerk?

Personally, my answer would be neither. As in, its neither the store clerk's fault or the store's fault. Why is it someone else's fault that some minor decided to break the law in the first place by purchasing liquor? It seems silly when you get down to the root of the problem (the minor).

If I shoplift, why is it not the store's fault for not stopping me?

Heck, why isn't it the cop's or government's fault that there is even crime at all?

These are rediculous arguments of course because people should be held accountable for their own actions. I say make it a $10,000 fine for an MIP or MIC and see what kind of problems you have with underage drinking.

But since the store decided to sell booze in the first place should they not be responsible for anything? It would be like a gun store selling to a wanted fugitive...Would this be the fugitive or the gun store at fault?

[Armadillo]

Well as Big Tex states 345 million undisputedly went to k-12 education.... I just dont see taking that money away as the lesser of two evils as far as valuating the "well being" of our education system. When that money dries up, what then?

Where has it undisputedly been stated that revenues to the state will decrease? At least one report shows revenues will actually INCREASE. Also, the bill doubles existing fines and penalties to retailers.

Increase?? get the govmt to not sell and they will make more money from something that they arent selling anymore?? huh

Lets not forget rajn cajn's concern about all of the distribution jobs that will go in the toilet once the big box stores go to the manufactures directly.

Sounds like a win win for big business

So getting back to my original question.. If the government is going to make any money off the liquor anymore they will have to raise the tax.. which in turn will eat up any savings you thought you would get by voting yes on the initiative. Whats to stop the big box stores from selling at the price of the gov liquor stores? competition?

 

[Armadillo]

in the long run there wont be any competition because the distribution jobs that will be eliminated, now all of the restaraunts will get their booze at...yes you guessed it..costco (along with the rest of us)