More garbage legislation under the guise of National Security...

[WAcoyotehunter]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2016606506_environment26m.html#.Tqih-gua7Bg.facebook

Seriously???  What the hell are they thinking about here?  15 years ago the GOP mobilized against imaginary black helicopters and UN invasions of our border. Now they're (we're) silent as our own leaders push militarization of even the wildest stretches of our quiet border with Canada.  The Mexican border is a nightmare (though still the only place with Jaguars in the U.S) but our border in WA is too valuable to allow this type of carte blanche for "national security".   

[Special T]

I don't like this idea. I think it is a solution with good intentions. (The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions) This is the kind of "Solution" that wasn't thought out completely. The ESA has been used as a tool to prevent all manner of things. So instead of fixing the problem (the ESA) they make and Excemption that fills thier need. I think this is typical politician think... Maybe if we reformed the ESA this and many other problems would be fixed...  I think a fence on our souther border is necessary, and MAY make it more difficult on some animals. HOWEVER i think the federal lands being turned into a garbage dump by illegal crossers won't help them much either. 

[pianoman9701]

I wouldn't have a problem with this if specific guidelines were made and met. But, under the guise of national security, we've lost many liberties and much has been done wrong in the name of "fighting the evildoers". Whereas I don't think the Border Patrol would go out of its way to hurt habitat or pollute wilderness areas, without some semblance of safeguards, we can't be sure, can we. I think as written, this would be an irresponsible bill to pass.

[JuryRig]

Whoa.  The original intent of the ESA was to make sure that the Federal Government did not cause harm to endangered species.  It has morphed into a club that environmentalist use to fight whatever cause that they have.  Now that the law is too restrictive, the Feds want to be able to ignore it whenever it is convenient.  BS!!  If Doc Hastings is behind this, then he has been in office too long.  If the ESA is too restrictive, limit the power of the ESA.  This is a perfect example of what is wrong with our government.  If you are big enough you get to ignore the rules that the little people have to follow.  <Rant off>

[Wazukie]

So....... we'll just keep letting the drug runners run there vehicles and whatever else through these area's but the border patrol and other agencies have to put the brakes on once they hit the boundaries?  Makes total sense to me    If you dont think this is whats happening then you arent abreast of what really happens.  The outlaws are not going to stop when they hit a protected area, but the boarder patrol is 100% required too.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I don't know if the drug runners are running amok all along the Canadian Border.  We have too many species that in in trouble up here to let the Border Patrol bypass too many laws or safeguards.  If the ESA needs work, fix it.  This law is not the avenue.

[pianoman9701]

So....... we'll just keep letting the drug runners run there vehicles and whatever else through these area's but the border patrol and other agencies have to put the brakes on once they hit the boundaries?  Makes total sense to me    If you dont think this is whats happening then you arent abreast of what really happens.  The outlaws are not going to stop when they hit a protected area, but the boarder patrol is 100% required too.

I'm not sure I agree that the only option we have to secure our border is to throw our environmental protections for our wilderness areas out the window. Drug running may be a concern coming from Oh Canaduh, but I don't think we have to lose common sense just because a conservative yells "Duck and Cover" every time he wants to pass some legislation under the guise of national security. I was all for this stuff after 9/11. Voted for GDUB twice and agreed with letting him have the run of the yard. What ended up happening is that we gave away our rights to privacy. We allowed the department of Homeland Security to take away freedoms because we were scared spitless. Not anymore. While we need security, we need our liberty even more. And as far as my woods are concerned, when a blustering senator steps up and says "this is the only way we can do it", it makes me immediately think, "that means there are other ways to do it". As they say in this forum quite a bit, this dog won't hunt!

[Special T]

If we trade liberty for security we get neither.

[Wazukie]

So what rights or liberties have you lost since 9/11?

[pianoman9701]

So what rights or liberties have you lost since 9/11?

We've all lost due process. All that Homeland security needs to do to detain you without access to legal council is claim you're a terrorist. They can wiretap without a warrant if they suspect you of terrorist activities. That's enough for me. All of these are outlined in the Patriot Act.

[Wazukie]

I guess the only reason I'd have to fear a wire tap is if I am doing something Illegal.  As for for being held without counsel, well, the FBI already has a big enough file on me and my family.  Don't know what else they'd want to know.

I can't say that I am for doing away with the EPA, but I would say I do agree that we need to do something about allowing LEO's to enter and not let the runners have free access.

[spookgus]

The way we have been securing our borders isn't working. This Bill probably contains 200 pages of environmental protections or it wouldn't stand a chance. I will have to look up this bill because right now the only info I have is a couple quotes and editorial from the media.

[pianoman9701]

I guess the only reason I'd have to fear a wire tap is if I am doing something Illegal.  As for for being held without counsel, well, the FBI already has a big enough file on me and my family.  Don't know what else they'd want to know.

I can't say that I am for doing away with the EPA, but I would say I do agree that we need to do something about allowing LEO's to enter and not let the runners have free access.

The reason that the 4th and 5th amendments are written as they are speaks to the fact that governments in the past have not given their people these protections and innocent people were arrested, tried, and convicted on circumstantial evidence. The protections that are outlined are specifically meant to eliminate that from happening. I will agree that 999 times out of 1000 that honest people have nothing to fear from a wiretap. However, our liberties are there to protect the entire 1000, not just the 999. Even with our beloved Constitutional rights, innocent people are incarcerated fairly frequently. Without the protections that we have in the Bill of Rights, it is worse. We should never give up our freedoms. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin

[buckfvr]

Count me as not believing their reasons are the true reasons for all the northern boundary emphasis we are seeing.  THings are being done that do not seem rational, and the gov doesnt even make a case for justifying their actions.....they just move forward.  I personally think it will be our movement that will be under controll,  the main issue and real reason,  the governments concern over controlling us as they institute more and more unpopular policies.....you watch....its whats coming.

[WAcoyotehunter]

wow- i never thought of that...   

The Border Control up here is crazy!  They have a HUGE budget and all kinds of tools and equipment that is a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.  We don't need to keep funding this crap and giving them everything they ask for.  Send the extra protection to the South border, with about half of the agents.

[cwuwildcat]

I guess the only reason I'd have to fear a wire tap is if I am doing something Illegal.  As for for being held without counsel, well, the FBI already has a big enough file on me and my family.  Don't know what else they'd want to know.

A bunch of Europeans in the 30's and 40's, and People living under Soviet rule may see a little flaw in your arguement here.  Most of those that were killed did nothing wrong.  The "I've done nothing wrong, so I don't have anything to fear" doesn't really work in real life.

[Special T]

Wa coyote. I met a mexican guy that works up here on the border... Acording to him its not about $$$ or resouces it is about the Will or DESIRE to close the border. he said he transfered up here becasue he got tired of the "Catch and Release fishing" that he did down there. And yes the guys up here are spoiled in comparison.

[spookgus]

H.R. 1505/ National Security and Federal Lands Protection Act. Read it before you believe the media. Doc Hastings is a sponsor and he is also the chairman of the Natural Resource Committee.