Cattle Missing, possibility increasing for hunting wolves in Washington?

[Special T]

BP, I have a question. Are there any big feed lots up in your neck of the woods or is it all range land? I can see beef and other meat prices going throught the roof as aresult of this. Not to mention the increase in feed lots where cattle can be "Protected". 

[bearpaw]

The grazing season is short here but better than feeding year around. They graze the mountains for a few months in the summer and then feed in the winter. A few operations haul cattle south to graze through the winter.

You are right if growers are forced to feed year around the price of beef will increase or ranchers will get pushed out of earning a living. If they have to feed year around, more ground will need to be tilled for crops, seems smarter to graze the mountains to me.

[Jack Diamond]

are thet finding carcasses?Or Something to validate that it is in fact wolves..

This rancher had the first USFWS and WDFW confirmed wolf kill in Washington several years ago, wolves have been in GMU 105 (where their ranch is) for many years. But WDFW doesn't list them.   

Wolf pups were whelped in 2010, many people saw the pups in various areas. I have documented wolf sightings all over the unit including right where the ranchers cattle graze. I don't know if pups were raised in 2011, but there are so many sightings that many people think there is now 2 packs in GMU 105.

No actual kills found of cattle yet, but numerous deer kills found in same areas where cattle are missing. One deer lkill this week right along the Kettle river was completely eaten overnight, so that explains how tough to find actual kills in that area will be with the heavy cover. Full grown bulls don't just disappear, I think the radio said 4 bulls are missing.

there is the possibility of rustling, sure would seem like there would be a carcass or two around,  not starting anything,just saying, only way to be compensated for missing cattle, is to have them declared as wolf depradation, however carcasses will have to be examined. 

So they are just now gathering the cattle?? or is this something that they figured out in Oct. or Nov. and just got vocal about??    I would still lean towards a gooseneck trailer, couple panels, couple good dogs, Range Bulls are not easy to kill. If it were calves and a few cows then I would consider the story as stated. 
and wolf poop with "cow hair" , not good enough to classify as "factual evidence" of a murdering rampage.   Fire away boys, just stating the obvious.

[Elkaholic daWg]

Sometime it's easy to forget that the rancher should not have to prove wolves exist, to keep his cattle safe. It should be the responsibility of WDFW to do keep wolves out of their cattle, after all it's the government that told the people they would monitor wolves and take care of problems, unfortunately their (1) statewide trapper has not been able to do that.

If I was a rancher I would feel like any wolf comes near my cattle is a dead wolf, unfortunately WDFW doesn't see it that way, look at the situation everywhere that livestock are being eaten by wolves: Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Minnesota, Wisconsin, New Mexico, Oregon, etc....

As stated on the radio, the ranchers have picked up numerous wolf scat filled with cattle hair....    

BP, the adopted States wolf plan (wolf disaster implementation and crammed down our throats plan as I refer to it) does not make any provisions for protection or reimbursement for losses of livestock.  Correct?

I would have to check again, if there is, it would have to be confirmed kills, that means the rancher would have to scour the west side of GMU 105 for remains from 27 head of cattle and then try to get WDSFW or USFWS up there. To my knowledge, WDFW does not seem to want to take much responsibility in these matters.

 West side of the 105, where the deer numbers seem to have plummeted in the last few years.

[Ridgeratt]

 " So they are just now gathering the cattle?? or is this something that they figured out in Oct. or Nov. and just got vocal about??    I would still lean towards a gooseneck trailer, couple panels, couple good dogs, Range Bulls are not easy to kill. If it were calves and a few cows then I would consider the story as stated. 
and wolf poop with "cow hair" , not good enough to classify as "factual evidence" of a murdering rampage.   Fire away boys, just stating the obvious. "

This last fall I found several areas that had Cattle hair in piles of scat. One area just east of the Mcgirvin place in part of their range. It was impossible to walk through the area with out stepping in it. All of it was full of hair and bone fragment's. What few bones were left had been broken like you hit them with a splitting maul. I spent some time looking for the kill site but never heard a crow or a sound.
McGirvins cowboy's will ride to round up the stock in weather that most of us won't even get out in. Usually it's a lone rider with a heeler dog. The other neighbor up the road that also Ranges cows pulls his stock out as by law, but seems there are always a few straggler's up there until the snow pushes them out of some of the holes.
Both of these folks have been in the cattle business for enough time they are well aquantied with what can happen.

[mulehunter]

  about all what happen up there.  Hopefully Rancher shot a wolf on A CATTLE. Thats what I would do.

[huntnnw]

Id be interested in knowing the numbers of the Phillips family cattle outta northport...there are wolves there and living right on their property. 5 at last count

That's probably the pack I lost track of, if we could solidfy the timing that a pack has been on the west side of 105 near McIrvins and when this pack was on Phillips, then we would know if there are likely two packs in 105. We have been thinking there are two packs, but I lost track of this pack you are saying has been on Phillips. Are they missing cattle too?

I dont know if they have lost any, but they run alot of cattle up there on alot of property and Natl forest close to the canadien line. I would venture to guess they have. Their cattle is on flagstaff alot and there was a pack up there during the summer and ealry part of fall that i know of for sure..my guess there is some loss

[huntnnw]

not just the westside of 105 have the deer numbers plumeted..there is way more deer on the west side of 105 as opposed to the eastside of 105...20 years ago my dad use to take me up North east of Northport...tons of deer..whiteys and muleys...today and in the last 15 years the deer in that area have about fallen off the map! i spend alot of time up there. Just during bear season we had 3 sets of binos for 5 days glassing 8 hours a day.We turned up 3 deer and 1 elk!!! oh and 15 bears..it the same theme every year

[Yummy and Tasty Animal]

Not only was the introduction of wolves an attempt to destroy hunting by allowing them to significantly decrease ungulate populations, but it also seems that it may have been an attempt to make freegrazing cattle ranches unprofitable.  A one-two punch that gets rid of hunting and a portion of beef production.

[Turner89]

Does a breeding pair = a pack? Or can there be more than 1 breeding pair in a pack?

[Ridgeratt]

Does a breeding pair = a pack? Or can there be more than 1 breeding pair in a pack?

Wolf Social Structure
The social structure of a wolf pack is one of the most fascinating that has ever been observed. They have a very strict level of hierarchy that has to be adhered to by all of the members of the pack. This may sound harsh initially but it is a method that allows these packs of wolves to be able to survive.

The leader of the pack is the alpha male and his mate is the beta female. Many believe that the social order of a pack is determined by fear and dominance of the one in charge. However, it isn’t necessary established by an attack on one and the winner is the leader. It is much more complex than that. The lowest ranking individual in a pack is the omega.

Through careful research, experts have found that this type of social structure helps to promote unity and social order. It also helps to reduce conflicts and to lower the chances of aggressive behaviors occurring among the members of the pack. The upper level of social structure doesn’t change very often. However, it can quite a bit at the lower levels.

What is also interesting is that there are two separate hierarchies within any wolf pack. There is one for the males and one for the females to follow. All of the wolves in a pack have a job to do and a role to fulfill though. In fact, it is the strong bond on a physical and emotional level that allows these animals to stay together. Without a strong social structure in place they would want to go off on their own.

The fact that wolves are very social animals by nature is part of why this works. They long for the interaction with each other. They will spend a great deal of their time communicating both verbally and nonverbally with each other. While they do use sounds and body language to stand their ground, it is seldom that problems get to a physical level within a given wolf pack.

The exception to this is during mating season. Sometimes other males in the pack will try to fight the alpha male. They do so not so that they can lead the pack but so that they can have the right to mate with her. Some studies show that mating can occur with other members of the pack but mainly it is only the alpha male and beta female that will do so.

When you consider that a wolf pack can have many members, this type of social structure does make sense. It helps to ensure every single member is aware of what their role within that group really is. You may find it interesting to learn that the young pups often have a great deal of freedom and get lots of benefits. This is because they are the offspring of the highest ranking members of the wolf pack.

The home range of a pack of wolves can overlap with that of other wolves. As long as food is plentiful they will usually ignore each other and continue on their way. When food is scarce though they may battle to determine which pack has the right to feed there. The lower ranking wolves are the ones that will fight.

The overall social structure if a wolf pack doesn’t change very often towards the top of it. There will be times though when the leader will be challenged by others. The lack of habitat out there as well as food in some areas can also limit the overall growth of a given wolf pack.

 

[Turner89]

So when WDF talks about a certain amount of breeding pairs, they are basically talking about wolf packs? Thanks Ridgeratt.

[bearpaw]

McIrvins
I know they pulled their cattle out a while back, they just had the big cattlemens meeting in Colville and went public with all this info. These people are the biggest cattle producers in the county, and Bill is an outdoorsman with some of the best hounds around, they know what they are doing in the mountains. I can remember years hearing they were upset over losing a few cattle to cougars and bear, they have never lost 27 head before that I have heard. Bill says there is wolf scat all over the place full of cattle hair. I trust he knows scat better than most WDFW employees.

Breeding Pair
To qualify as a breeding pair, a pair of wolves must mate and have at least two surviving pups at the end of the year for three years in a row. If they miss a year, the way I understand it, they don't count. Don't matter how many wolves are in an area, this is the critieria for a breeding pair.

The Catch
We are all dependent on the WDFW. This has to be proven by WDFW and at the rate they are trapping wolves we will probably have 100 actual bp's before they confirm 15 bp's for 3 years in a row.

[Ridgeratt]

Dale you left out. Pups must be born in the state of Washington and not Transient to count as well.

[bearpaw]

Dale you left out. Pups must be born in the state of Washington and not Transient to count as well.

right on....