berger vld hunting bullets???

[sirmissalot]

I realize you don't need a passthrough to kill, and a spine shot especially in the neck will definitely do the job. The reason I told the story was because the size of the neck right below the head is pretty dang small, and in my opinion could be even less muscle and bone mass than the shoulder of an elk, especially if its on a quartering toward shot like I described.

I use berger bullets and love them, but I don't use them for large game. They fricken whack the hell out of coyotes, I swear by them in my 204.

[high country]

i'm just a little worried about enough penetration to cleanly bring down elk and bears if they were hit in the shoulders. that big bone and that much expansion they are suppose to have makes me a little nervous

You must have missed my pic. BTW, it had a starting velocity of 2950 and impact velocity of 1950.....you can do the math to figure how far that is. Don't over think it. Just make the bullet go where it is supposed to. You will be fine.

[BULLBLASTER]

The heavy bone you are referring to on an elk is roughly 4 inches wide no matter what angle you look at it. I always try and break at least one shoulder when I am rifle hunting and this year was no different. My shot exploded the elks briskte and broke the offside shoulder at the joint. I have full faith that a sufficiently sized Berger will break an elk shoulder as I have seen it happen.

[Fowlweather25]

I know elk and deer are very different but the buck I shot at 653 yards this year had 2 broken shoulders and the bullet came to rest just under the hide on the off side. If you can do that on a deer at that range I'm fairly confident you can penetrate one shoulder on an elk and still get vitals. That was shootin 168 grn vlds out of a 7mm. It's not always just about the bullet it's more so about the energy upon impact.

[Pathfinder101]

Shot 3 deer with my 7mm Rem Mag with 168 gr Berger VLDs this year.  One was my Mule Deer, shot at 180 yards through both shoulders in it's bed.  As I was walking up, it started to get up, so I shot him in the neck at less than 100 yds.  Second shot was uneccesary, but I didn't know at the time. 
The other two deer were shot by my 12 year old (who drew a second deer tag).  First one was a doe at between 250 and 300 yards (I didn't range it).  Shot through the ribs behind the shoulder and hit a rib on the exit side, tearing out a pretty good chunk.  Third was a 150 class whitetail at 294 yards, shot straight through the center of the chest and exited behind the left shoulder without touching a bone.  All three deer dead within a few feet of where they were shot. 
Effective?  Yes.  Dead deer?  Absolutely.  Big hole and bullet fragments when you hit bone?  Yup.  Of course, as has been mentioned earlier, none of the shots were long enough to take "advantage" of the VLD's chief selling point, which is long-range accuracy.  But that is what my rifle is sighted in with (I have CDS target knobs on my scope-built specifically for that round), so that is what I shoot.

[sirmissalot]

It's not always just about the bullet it's more so about the energy upon impact.

This is exactly right, and thats where berger bullets start to really shine with their high BC values and fragmentation. A barnes bullet won't have as much energy (at least on paper, not talking by experience) as a berger, and the barnes won't fragment and won't mushroom nearly as well at the long distances ie 6-700+ yards. If I were a long ranger hunter (I am not) I would look much closer at berger bullets for big game.

[Pathfinder101]

You can kind of see the giant exit wound on the first pic.  On my son's buck you can only see a tiny dime-sized hole in the center of the chest.

[trophyhunt]

I've been using them for my 300win for the past 5 years and I have had no complaints. Furthest shot was 550 on a black bear, it did the job. I have killed about 3 elk and a couple deer along with that bear. I shoot the 190grain berger.

[high country]

Energy is waaaay over rated. I flat destroyed the offside shoulder of this animal. Impact energy was about 1100. The energy 3" later was zero. I assure you it did not retain 100% of its energy till it broke that scapula. Minimum energy figures come from magnumitis.

[Fowlweather25]

You still have to have kinetic energy to have penetration and a wound channel. It's simple physics. The more energy the bullet has upon impact the deeper it will penetrate. Obviously when it strikes a hard surface energy is lost. That being said the higher the number upon impact the deeper it will travel, and therefore cause a more devestating wound channel and impact the vital organs and tissues a lot harder.

[rbros]

I know elk and deer are very different but the buck I shot at 653 yards this year had 2 broken shoulders and the bullet came to rest just under the hide on the off side. If you can do that on a deer at that range I'm fairly confident you can penetrate one shoulder on an elk and still get vitals. That was shootin 168 grn vlds out of a 7mm. It's not always just about the bullet it's more so about the energy upon impact.

A bull I shot at 1103 was with a 168 Berger in a 7mm at 3340fps.  Broke both shoulders and was under the hide.  Dropped where he stood.  About the same effect as the other ones over 1k with a 300gr SMK in my Edge.  Didn't have time to test out the 300gr Bergers this year, but will will in 2012.  I wouldn't hesistate on deer or elk out to 1k with the 7mm 168 or 180, beyond that, a little more horsepower would be appreciated.  Not needed if shot placement is correct, but gives a little more margin if something does go wrong.

[high country]

You still have to have kinetic energy to have penetration and a wound channel. It's simple physics. The more energy the bullet has upon impact the deeper it will penetrate. Obviously when it strikes a hard surface energy is lost. That being said the higher the number upon impact the deeper it will travel, and therefore cause a more devestating wound channel and impact the vital organs and tissues a lot harder.

You may want to look at some ballistics tests....faster is not always deeper penetrating, infact bergers and smks tend to work well at slower speeds.

[BOWHUNTER45]

You can kind of see the giant exit wound on the first pic.  On my son's buck you can only see a tiny dime-sized hole in the center of the chest.

Thats a fine whitetail little Pathfinder ...looks like he got hit hard !!!

[Pathfinder101]

You can kind of see the giant exit wound on the first pic.  On my son's buck you can only see a tiny dime-sized hole in the center of the chest.

Thats a fine whitetail little Pathfinder ...looks like he got hit hard !!!

THanks Bowhunter.  He made a great shot.  294 yards, steep uphill shot.  The buck was chasing does and stopped, facing straight towards us.  The only shot he had was straight into the chest.  He touched off the round, the buck tucked it's tail and ducked into the draw.  "I hit him." he said "Right here, through the chest" and pointed with his finger to exactly where that little hole is in the picture.  I wasn't so confident, but when we walked up the hill, there he was, only a few yards from where he was standing when he shot, dead as a wedge...

[Kuduman]

Sirmissallot
 A few years ago I contacted Berger while doing some bullet compairsons preparing for an African safari trip. At that point all they could comment on was their field testing results for target shooting which were excellent. I personally only use bonded bullets spicifically Hornady innerbond. The vld,s are great bullets and they may have completed more field research in the past few years. I would recommend contacting Berger directly, they were a great help to me. I just chose to stay with a more established hunting bullet manufacturer than one that at that time specialized in target bullets. But in their defence Berger bullets were probably the most accurate I tested.
good luck

Jeff
A.K.A. Kuduman