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Author Topic: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?  (Read 13915 times)

Offline Dave Workman

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Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« on: December 29, 2011, 10:12:37 AM »
Does WDFW press release reveal serious fault with WA wildlife management?
 
  A press release from the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife announcing the Jan. 6-7 meeting of the Fish & Wildlife Commission may have inadvertently vindicated long-time critics of this state’s Resource Allocation-based hunting regulations.
 
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/does-wdfw-press-release-reveal-serious-fault-with-wa-wildlife-management
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Offline CedarPants

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 10:21:51 AM »
Good read Dave, thank you for posting

Offline Dave Workman

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 10:25:16 AM »
Good read Dave, thank you for posting

Spread that link around.  ;)
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence

Offline bobcat

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2011, 10:33:07 AM »
Dave,

Is there any data available for the number of deer and elk hunters over the years? The number of licensed hunters doesn't really tell us a lot. Back in the 70's we had really good hunting for wild pheasant, and decent hunting through the 80's. The duck hunting was better too, and there were far more places to hunt ducks and pheasants back then.

My guess is that a large part of the decrease in hunters has to do with the decrease in opportunity to hunt and kill birds, and not so much to do with the decrease in opportunity for big game.

Of course it also has something to do with people in general becoming more "cityfied". The kids today don't spend time outside like we used to, they would rather stay indoors and play video games.

I just really think you're off base in trying to blame the WDFW for the reduction in the number of hunters. There are many things we can blame on the WDFW, but that is not one of them, in my opinion.



Offline Elkaholic daWg

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2011, 11:18:25 AM »
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,86719.0.html

 30 years of allowing non and anti hunters to help make the mess we have now is not the fault of WDFW? the harder and more expensive it gets...the more hunters you loose. Do anti hunters want  hunters to give up....Ya think?
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Offline Dhoey07

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2011, 11:24:58 AM »
Dave,

Is there any data available for the number of deer and elk hunters over the years? The number of licensed hunters doesn't really tell us a lot. Back in the 70's we had really good hunting for wild pheasant, and decent hunting through the 80's. The duck hunting was better too, and there were far more places to hunt ducks and pheasants back then.

My guess is that a large part of the decrease in hunters has to do with the decrease in opportunity to hunt and kill birds, and not so much to do with the decrease in opportunity for big game.

Of course it also has something to do with people in general becoming more "cityfied". The kids today don't spend time outside like we used to, they would rather stay indoors and play video games.

I just really think you're off base in trying to blame the WDFW for the reduction in the number of hunters. There are many things we can blame on the WDFW, but that is not one of them, in my opinion.

First things first, Kids spend there time indoors because their parents let them!! Also, they don't have the hunting opportunities that kids had in the 60's and 70's.  Kids used to ride their bikes to a close by pond or lake to fish, or to a close by field or patch of woods to hunt.  Those places, for the most part, are just not there.  Plus, could you imagine what would happen if someone saw a kid riding his 12 speed down meridian or 410 with a 12 guage on the front  :yike: Chances are he wouldn't make it very far. 

In my opinion the other reason for less people buying licenses, is the overall success rates of deer, elk and bird hunters.  Our state only wants us to be so successfull, and compared to neighboring states, our rates are piss poor.  When success rates are around 8% for elk, I don't blame people for not buying a license.

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2011, 11:34:48 AM »
 :yeah:

Just made me think about the programs for under privilaged kids to become tree huggers, do we as hunters fund programs like this?

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Offline bobcat

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2011, 11:39:22 AM »
First things first, Kids spend there time indoors because their parents let them!! Also, they don't have the hunting opportunities that kids had in the 60's and 70's.  Kids used to ride their bikes to a close by pond or lake to fish, or to a close by field or patch of woods to hunt.  Those places, for the most part, are just not there.  Plus, could you imagine what would happen if someone saw a kid riding his 12 speed down meridian or 410 with a 12 guage on the front  :yike: Chances are he wouldn't make it very far. 

In my opinion the other reason for less people buying licenses, is the overall success rates of deer, elk and bird hunters.  Our state only wants us to be so successfull, and compared to neighboring states, our rates are piss poor.  When success rates are around 8% for elk, I don't blame people for not buying a license.

I agree with all that you have said. What I don't agree with is Dave's opinion that "Resource Allocation - based hunting regulations" is the cause for the reduction in the number of hunters in this state. I believe it is a lot more complicated than that.


Offline Dave Workman

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2011, 11:47:10 AM »
I agree with all that you have said. What I don't agree with is Dave's opinion that "Resource Allocation - based hunting regulations" is the cause for the reduction in the number of hunters in this state. I believe it is a lot more complicated than that.

Bobcat, I'm calling B.S. on you.
That's not what I said and you know it.

THIS is what I said (which you evidently agree with):

Quote
  While it would be foolish to blame the decline entirely on Resource Allocation, the numbers suggest Washington State has a serious problem, probably several problems. Shorter seasons across the board for all user groups, adjusted season dates that virtually guarantee a lower harvest, especially for Eastern Washington elk, antler point restrictions on elk and mule deer, and this year for whitetail bucks in two popular northeast units; all are likely contributing factors.


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Offline Dhoey07

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2011, 11:50:59 AM »
I agree with all that you have said. What I don't agree with is Dave's opinion that "Resource Allocation - based hunting regulations" is the cause for the reduction in the number of hunters in this state. I believe it is a lot more complicated than that.

Bobcat, I'm calling B.S. on you.
That's not what I said and you know it.

THIS is what I said (which you evidently agree with):

Quote
  While it would be foolish to blame the decline entirely on Resource Allocation, the numbers suggest Washington State has a serious problem, probably several problems. Shorter seasons across the board for all user groups, adjusted season dates that virtually guarantee a lower harvest, especially for Eastern Washington elk, antler point restrictions on elk and mule deer, and this year for whitetail bucks in two popular northeast units; all are likely contributing factors.

You didn't say that it is enirely to blame, but, in my opinion, you definitely insinuated Resource Allocation is the main problem. 

Offline Dave Workman

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2011, 11:54:07 AM »
Dave,

Is there any data available for the number of deer and elk hunters over the years? The number of licensed hunters doesn't really tell us a lot. Back in the 70's we had really good hunting for wild pheasant, and decent hunting through the 80's. The duck hunting was better too, and there were far more places to hunt ducks and pheasants back then.

My guess is that a large part of the decrease in hunters has to do with the decrease in opportunity to hunt and kill birds, and not so much to do with the decrease in opportunity for big game.

Of course it also has something to do with people in general becoming more "cityfied". The kids today don't spend time outside like we used to, they would rather stay indoors and play video games.

I just really think you're off base in trying to blame the WDFW for the reduction in the number of hunters. There are many things we can blame on the WDFW, but that is not one of them, in my opinion.

The USFWS data isn't broken down that way, to divide between big game and bird hunters.
But for you to suggest that the decreased opportunity to hunt big game doesn't have a lot to do with this is puzzling.

You can think whatever you want about holding WDFW responsible, but they are the agency in charge of hunting and providing opportunities.  You're suggesting that they should not be held accountable for what has become of management and opportunity in this state.

That's like saying Eric Holder should not be held accountable for Fast & Furious.



"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence

Offline bobcat

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2011, 11:54:51 AM »
I agree with all that you have said. What I don't agree with is Dave's opinion that "Resource Allocation - based hunting regulations" is the cause for the reduction in the number of hunters in this state. I believe it is a lot more complicated than that.

Bobcat, I'm calling B.S. on you.
That's not what I said and you know it.

THIS is what I said (which you evidently agree with):

Quote
  While it would be foolish to blame the decline entirely on Resource Allocation, the numbers suggest Washington State has a serious problem, probably several problems. Shorter seasons across the board for all user groups, adjusted season dates that virtually guarantee a lower harvest, especially for Eastern Washington elk, antler point restrictions on elk and mule deer, and this year for whitetail bucks in two popular northeast units; all are likely contributing factors.


OK, I missed that, but I don't agree that it's resource allocation OR any of the other factors you mention in the above paragraph. I agree low success rates could be a big part of lower hunter numbers, but we have low success rates because we have relatively low numbers of animals. Make the seasons longer and at times when big game animals are more vulnerable like you want, and we will have even less animals to hunt, and even LOWER success rates.

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2011, 12:05:01 PM »
Bobcat if our low success rates are being caused by our low number of animals, and WDFW is not to blame for the decreased number of animals - who is to blame?

Or are you saynig there isn't a problem at all?

Offline Dave Workman

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2011, 12:07:58 PM »


You didn't say that it is enirely to blame, but, in my opinion, you definitely insinuated Resource Allocation is the main problem.

I didn't "insinuate" anything. The WDFW press release did that for me by acknowledging that hunters are after more opportunity, therefore, the agency wants to up the number of these special permits for multi-season hunting, which is, as was quickly pointed out, all about MONEY.

The agency strategy is to give this some kind of exclusivity, and I think we ought to throw it open to everyone who wants to go buy an extra tag, the way it was way back when.
They think they'll make more money through permit application fees. I think they'll make a lot more money with OTC sales, and give a lot more people the opportunity to hunt multiple seasons.

I want hunters united. They seem to want to keep hunting user groups split.

"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence

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Re: Has WDFW revealed serious fault with Resource Allocation?
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2011, 12:16:55 PM »
This is another topic which leads me to a subject that has come up before.DO NOT BUY ANY FISHING OR HUNTING LICENSES FOR THE COMING 2012. And see what the WDFW will do for us then!
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