Hunter Education Discussion

[brianmtsinc]

On a somewhat different note - What do you guys think about not requiring this class for Archery hunters?

 I am an archery hunter and went thru this class with my son after he had already spent 3-4 years in the woods with me.  BASICALLY, the whole week was about rifles, calibers, bullets, etc...We had 10 minutes about archery. He was bored the whole time and it was a struggle to keep him going back each day.  Fortunately he wanted to hunt bad enough that he stuck with it, but it was a real challenge and I know when he talks to his friends about it he laughs and sarcastically says "Have fun."

For me - it was a very frustrating week as well.  I had no desire to learn about rifles and I HATED the last class when everyone brought their rifles in.  30% + had to be reminded several times about watching where they were pointing their gun.  I took my kid to the back of the room.

I taught my son what he needs to know about archery hunting, and am very confident in his abilities to be safe and make good decisions.  I also understand that not everyone has a Dad or mentor to teach them, so I am not opposed to the HE, but for those that only hunt Archery, the class needs to be changed up, or they need to allow a waiver - IMO

I'm curious what you all think.   

[ghosthunter]

On a somewhat different note - What do you guys think about not requiring this class for Archery hunters?

 I am an archery hunter and went thru this class with my son after he had already spent 3-4 years in the woods with me.  BASICALLY, the whole week was about rifles, calibers, bullets, etc...We had 10 minutes about archery. He was bored the whole time and it was a struggle to keep him going back each day.  Fortunately he wanted to hunt bad enough that he stuck with it, but it was a real challenge and I know when he talks to his friends about it he laughs and sarcastically says "Have fun."

For me - it was a very frustrating week as well.  I had no desire to learn about rifles and I HATED the last class when everyone brought their rifles in.  30% + had to be reminded several times about watching where they were pointing their gun.  I took my kid to the back of the room.

I taught my son what he needs to know about archery hunting, and am very confident in his abilities to be safe and make good decisions.  I also understand that not everyone has a Dad or mentor to teach them, so I am not opposed to the HE, but for those that only hunt Archery, the class needs to be changed up, or they need to allow a waiver - IMO

I'm curious what you all think.   

Here is the trouble.

As it is right now , when he gets a card he can hunt any season he wants. Now its bow but down the line 10 years from now he wants to hunt modern and can if he has a card.

So I don't think this is a bad idea. But it would take a change. I see no problem with folks being able to hunt bow without a safety coarse. But that person should not be allowed to 10 years from now hunt with a rifle until they go through a certified class of some kind.

So if the state would mark his ticket some how to allow only hunting with a bow, I see no problem.

But they wont because they want him subjected to the other issues like ethic,sportsmanship etc.

It's not a bad idea because it would lessen the burdon on Basic Hunter Education. One day bow class, and you are good for hunting bow only.

[Brownarola]

So do you think that if we changed the HE system to the German system of becoming a Jager meister is what is required? I Remember Addicted (currently in germany) wrote extensively about what it took for him, a service member, to get his Lic... It was a hell of a lot harder than here.  Isn't there something to be said about learning as you go? Or do we need a boot camp before we start out?

Switching to the German system would be gladly accepted those who want MORE restrictions on firearms. Trust me, you do not want it. Speaking as an ex service member who lived in Germany for 3 1/2 years and whose kids and wife and family members are German citizens, I can tell you that hunting in Germany is done completely different than it is here. While I was there I actually got to meet a few of them(jager meisters) and to hunt you must become jager meister which is a senior forester / gamekeeper / "Master Hunter."  Only MH's are allowed to harvest animals in Germany but this is like a state appointed job and it is not to be taken lightly. You are a member of a hunting club and hunts are done very strategically. Based on the game managers report you must harvest x number of wild bore, x number of pheasant, x number of deer, etc. Once the quota is met the hunt is over. I'm using the term hunt lightly. Typically they will setup the shooters in a line and then you have drivers that drive the game to the shooters. At least that's how they were doing it in 1990 when I was there and my friend was a jager meister. Also note that the game is the property of the land owner and if you want it, then you will pay the landowner for it.  Jager meisters also respond to reports of injured or problem animals and they will cull them from the woods.

Anyway to compare hunting here with hunting in Europe is like comparing apples to oranges.  Yes they are both fruits but they are not the same. Hunting is strictly controlled in Europe and kids do not hunt so there is no need for firearm safety courses. If you want to learn how to shoot in Europe you join a shooting club. Also firearms in Europe are also tightly restricted.  When I was there the government will allow you to posses firearms but they want to know how many guns you have and the number of bullets you possess. At least that's how it was in the early 90's. Maybe things have changed but I would have to talk to my wife's friend Udo who is a jager meister and he could clarify things further but I don't think things have changed that much.

[Special T]

I was trying to make a point by using the term Jager meister... What we have and what Germans have are completely different.

So do you think that if we changed the HE system to the German system of becoming a Jager meister is what is required?

No, that would become a barrier to entry that would simply reduce the number of hunters even further.  WDFW is looking at online expansion as a way to reduce the barriers and enhance the consistency of the training.

HF made my point for me. How much and what kind of training is just enough to recruit people... Addicted (member) has written a lot about his hunting in germany, and not a lot of people hunt over there by comparison...

[Brownarola]

Addicted (member) has written a lot about his hunting in germany, and not a lot of people hunt over there by comparison...

You hit the nail on the head and another fact is the number of hunters in Washington State as opposed to the population is around 4% to 6%. If the citizens decide they have had enough with hunting, they will pass laws and there is nothing we can do about it. Then you will probably see the implementation of a form of Jager Meirster's here.  Luckily most citizens are ok with hunting as long as the hunter uses the meat.

[Special T]

The WDFW could do a market survey to find out what kind of recruitment tool would work best for those that would like to try hunting but have no direct family member to take them... I'm skeptical if they would list tho.

In college I Payed to do one for the university, along with my fellow Marketing Seniors, a recruitment market survey for the university. Our professor had owned his own Marketing business.  there were 12 of us, we got an A, and if farmed out it would have cost the school about 40-50K...   They didn't like what we had to say so they hired a "marketing pro" to give them the answers they wanted... to the tune of about 150k a year for a few years! 

I helped another MGR at said university with a market survey that he wanted to hire me to do... After a lunch together i told him I'd do it and come to the same conclusion half of the other university's in the nation had come to... but he'd be wasting $$$.  I guess that didn't go over so well, because he hired a firm to do it.  Afterwards i asked him why he hired the work done... His answer, needed it to justify common sense!  He still is a good guy...

[Camp David]

How would you rate your experience with Hunter Education.
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Do you support online hunter education? To a point. I agree it is less time consuming for the student, but are they getting the required basics from the computer?
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What are your thoughts about training days at the range? The most important part of the class is gun handling. Range/field day allows the instructor to assist students that require some coaching.
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How important is it for real firearms, bows, and muzzleloaders to be used in the classroom? Very. When you start putting “fake” guns in the classroom they will be treated as fake guns It’s like teaching a pilot to fly with plywood wings mounted to a milk carton and a broom stick for a control stick. Then tell him to jump in the real thing and go fly.
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Apparently WDFW is trying to reduce the risk factor in training, do you have any suggestions or comments about that? . If the state is so hung up on liability, they can remove the firing pins from all of the guns and take the primers out of all of the shells. I’m sure more people have been hurt/died while driving  to class than have been hurt in class. If we knew that the students were going to be mentored correctly after  graduation, than a reduction in live firearms might be OK. We all know that a lot of the kids will have their best opportunity to learn safe gun handling in the short class. Would the WDFW rather have a safe gun handling situation in class, where it can be addressed immediately, or have the situation in the field that may cause death.
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What is the best direction for Hunter Education? Update materials; a lot of the videos are ancient. Get some of the nice to know sections out of the class. More time on safe gun/bow handling. Incorporate more realistic scenarios (duck hunting, flushing pheasants, running deer) and how the students need to be very aware of other people in these situations. More focus on ethics and how to read/understand/obey the regulations.

I have taught numerous HE classes. And for the most part students are excited to learn the material. But the class is only the beginning. I’d like to see a better mentorship program.

[muzbuster]

Just finished H.E. this last weekend with my 9yr old. I wouldnt change a thing!It was a great week for his Mom & I watching him learn. He did great and loved going each and every night and was so excited to be able to shoot the .22, bow and shotgun during the field evaluation day, first time he had ever touched a firearm. It was our rule we had that until he took H.E. and passed, he didnt touch a firearm at anytime. We made him come to us and say when he was ready to take the course so he could  hunt with us rather then just tag along. When he did that 3 weeks later he was in class. He studied every night (yes being 9 we had to tell him to put the gameboy away &  study ) We read it to him and had him answer all the questions in the back of the book, when he complained we would tell him that if he wanted to hunt he had to suck it up and do it or he couldnt hunt. He is so excited to get his card and go buy his first license! I feel the hands on with real firearms is a critical part of the program and should remain intact. Thanks to all the instructors that voluntier so much of thier time "passing it on" to the next generation.     1 Proud papa

[Bob33]

That's awesome Muzbuster!  Congratulations to your son.  I hope you have many happy years of hunting together.

[ghosthunter]

My IST shirts .

[Special T]

Cant quite read it...

[ghosthunter]

more

[ghosthunter]

try this

[ghosthunter]

Red shirt says

Teach Real Gun safety
Not Fake Gun Safety

[ghosthunter]

Well give em a trial run when Boes comes up this weekend.