Hunter Education Discussion

[ghosthunter]

After

[danderson]

  I had a meeting last week with my hunter education instructors about the new changes in the program, bottom line is that we will conduct this years classes the way that we have in the past, however starting next year we will take advantage of the programs inert firearms for classroom instruction, and use there firearms for the range day and skills portion, we are also going to require ammunition supplied by the WDFW, 22s, and 243s, we are going to need eye and ear  protection, and  targets, we have never had to use any of there supplies in the past other than the tests and students workbooks, I hope theres enough supplies to go around.

[ghosthunter]

Just got home from IST. I thought the event was overall good. There were a couple things I did not like.

1. The session on Harassment was a total waste of time. I discussed it with several other instructor and not one I talked to liked it. The speaker was 15-20 minutes late. The power point equipment was not set up until the speaker got there.
The speaker I doubt had ever been inside a Hunter Ed class room. Although I would agree Harassment is a important topic. The speaker had no idea who her audience was or what they did. Her whole session was geared to working in a DFW office not in a Hunter Ed classroom.
I would. Have thought that they would have had her attend a class and Come with a lesson plan focus on in class situations.

2. I would have liked a longer session on new policies . I also
Have some personal observations. But I will email those to Sgt. Cline.

3. I liked the session on reporting on line. And was glad to here some glitches had been fixed.

I would make this observation, Staff should practice what they preach.
In one session a gentle man indicated that he could not hear the speaker. The staff member than asked  the class if anyone else was having trouble. No
The instructor who could not hear got up and left.
The speaker should had put on a mic if  he was going to walk around the room while talking. There was a mike available.
Had that been a Hunter Ed class we would have made every effort to make sure every person could hear. The man who couldn't hear was put on the spot.
Something that would not be allowed in a Hunter Ed class.

Also if you are a staff member talking to  men and women twice your age about issues that effect them. You should in the very least stand up and face them during  your session instead of sitting slumped down in a chair behind a monitor. In my option that is disrespectful of your audience.

All in all I think these types of IST are very useful. And I thought  for the most part well done. We had access to staff which helps us a lot. I know staff worked hard on it and I appreciate it.

As for me I will continue teaching as I have until the new policies are finalized.

I intend stop doing Range Days. As those are optional for the student. So why do them if the student is not required to shoot.
I do not do a field coarse and range on the same day.

These are my comments and mine alone. Just how I see it.


Bobby A. BEDDOME
Skagit County

[ghosthunter]

I have now read the entire Draft Policies.

I have only two things I do not like.

1. The requirement to provide the serial numbers of my personal firearms used in class.
There is no reason the state DFW should need that information.

2. Allowing students to op out of shooting.
If the student cannot be required to shoot,than there is no reason to have a range day.

[ghosthunter]

...
I have only two things I do not like.

1. The requirement to provide the serial numbers of my personal firearms used in class.
There is no reason the state DFW should need that information.
...

It's overboard they can't stay on top of the reqirements they have now.
There nothing that says I have to show a rifle in class. So I will just go with book and the only guns in class will be the state shotguns.
There is no need for serial numbers of private eqipment

It's not just firearms.  If you look at the financial report, you also have to list any other personal equipment and their serial numbers that you use in class.  So the way I read it, if you use a laptop and projector, you have to list them.  It's not that I am concerned that someone has my serial for my laptop, it's just a big pain in the butt.

[Special T]

I    you guys for trying to help herd these WDFW cats in the right direction. Don't have the time for that kind of ignorance, and THEY are the professionals! 

[Outdoor Guardian]

I appreciated seeing the concerns and suggestions. This program is very important to us and we will continue to make improvements - a continuous process.

[Bob33]

I also understand that they are looking for comments/corrections/feedback before they enact this document in May???

Having just spent over a year re-working our CC&Rs for our HOA, this doc looks half-baked.  There's a LOT of ambiguity in this doc.  The one thing that really made me twitch was the following:

“At no time will hunting arrows, broadheads or crossbow bolts be handled in the classroom by students.”

What’s the definition of a Hunting Arrow???  My fluflu with a judo point has killed grouse, but you would have to try hard to hurt yourself with one of these.  My target arrows that I use in 3Ds are also my hunting arrows.  Unscrew the tips and screw on a broadhead and voila, hunting arrow.

I could understand if the verbiage was

“At no time will broadheads, broadhead-tipped hunting arrows, or broadhead-tipped crossbow bolts be handled in the classroom by students.”

But if the intent was the original verbiage, then we might as well take away their pencils too.  We all know that short barrels are harder to control than long barrels.  The same would be true with sharp pokey things.

I think  Kit’s looking to gather comments, concerns and corrections from our team and consolidate them into one document so that the state doesn’t get 900 responses to this thing.  I am going to do my absolute best to be at the IAC meeting in April, so I could consolidate that further with  Bobby’s team and take that as one response.

Thoughts?

I believe this is a perfect example of something that WDFW would appreciate feedback on.

[Machias Bowhunter]

I would think it is VERY hard to get a kid into hunting unless a direct realative is into it.

You just hit the nail on the head and exposed the million dollar question. How do we do that? "get a kid into hunting without a relative?" A mentoring program in cooperation with private landowners?

There are mentoring programs out there, big brother and big sister one of them, a friend of mine that is a very into hunting is a big brother and he as gotten his kid into hunting, they go all the time together, yes it took parental approval of course. There are also friends that take other friends kids hunting too, These are the kids that could use that hands on in hunter ed, they may not get the time with the hunting partner to show thme everything.

[steen]

I just received my five year pin and certificate in the mail the other day.  My how time flies, I didn't think it has been that long!

[savage.270]

hunter ed was theeeeee most boring thing ive had to sit through in my life. i knew most of the stuff they taught me anyway. but i do see why they do it.

[aaronoto]

I can only speak to the online hunter education as that is what I ended up taking, but the online process could use an overhaul...

The online class itself - most people choose an online option so they can work at their own pace, but that means faster or slower...  Why make me stay on a slide for 2 minutes when I've read and understood it in 30 seconds?  This made absolutely no sense to me.  If left to go at my own pace I could have easily completed the course and passed the final test in one evening.  Instead I had to stretch it out over a week because I had a limited amount of time to work with each night.

The range evaluation - it wasn't an evaluation, it was pretty much a full on classroom day with an evaluation at the end.  Again, I chose the online option to save time - I expected to go to the range evaluation take my test and go home.  Instead I was there for the better part of a day going over material that was covered already online and that I was already tested on.

I'm not trying to come off as a know it all - I'm not.  I did however have ingrained in me safe firearm handling skills when I was first introduced to firearms.  I also don't want to take anything away from the instructors that taught at the range evaluation session - they were GREAT!  A couple suggestions for hunter ed though... make the online option truly a "fast track" option and lay out EXACTLY what folks are going to be tested on during the range evaluation and how they'll be scored.  On evaluation day have folks show up, sign in, and then start them on the course.  Keep the full blown classroom instruction as an option for those that prefer a little more hands on training.

[Brownarola]

Has anyone actually read through the entire new WDFW Hunter Education instructor manual? If you have you may be wondering what's the point of the range day? If a student may now opt out of shooting portion, what is the point? In the past students had to shoot but now if they don't feel like it, they can opt out. Plus if they opt in they only have to shoot one round from a .22 caliber rifle.  Remember the post that said the states does not not plan to do away with the Hunter Ed classroom. That's odd because the new policies seem to contradict this. Based on what I have read, the new policy paves the way for a 100% online program. Maybe it isn't drafted in a manner where it directly states this but if you read between the lines you can clearly see the writing on the wall. If you do away with the shooting skills portion and then you place a huge burden of red tape on your current instructors what do you think is going to happen? Instructors are going to start leaving the ranks in droves because they simply do not wish to put up with all the bs. However the need for Hunter Education is still there. What do you do? Well, since you do not have enough instructors and you do have an online program, why not simply wave the field day and turn the program into a 100% online program. You get rid the liability, the cost of books and supplies and then you can funnel the Pittman Robertson monies into other areas. Granted this may not happen for a couple years but I think once you draw down the instructor ranks enough you will have no problem getting this type of policy pushed through.

[Bob33]

" If a student may now opt out of shooting portion, what is the point? In the past students had to shoot but now if they don't feel like it, they can opt out."

Live fire has always been optional.  It just wasn't communicated very well.

[ghosthunter]

" If a student may now opt out of shooting portion, what is the point? In the past students had to shoot but now if they don't feel like it, they can opt out."

Live fire has always been optional.  It just wasn't communicated very well.

Thats really not true. Live fire was optional for instructors, not for students. I was told by staff when I started that if a range day was part of my class than everyone had to shoot.
And I have seen dozens of students fail a class for not shooting. Now its is optional for the student.

As I have said before why should an instructor waste a saturday or sunday on a range day that half the students may opt out of.

Not me I will never have another range day if I am still in the program after the draft period.