Wolf Packs in Washington

[Tbar]

IMO you have come here with a set agenda to enrage people with your emotion driven non factual sentiment. If anything you may be the leveraging force that would push a normal law abiding citizen to commit a unlawful act.

[humanure]

I'm not getting emotional. I've stayed calm, cool and collected. If people act out in illegal ways because someone disagree'd with them, then they should seek professional help. I'm not trying to enrage anyone, just partake in conversation that deals with two things i have interest in. I really don't care to go to pro-wolf sites or forums. They don't like to hear anything truthful about predators that they think hurts their cause. I like wolves and see their benefit, but I also know that they do oppertunity kill(though the carcass' they leave behind is beneficial to the eco-system) and I'm aware of the possibilities for domestic predation.

[Tinner]

Unbelievable, What we have here is a Saint and did'nt even know it.
 
 You just decided one day to join and save us? I think your time may be better spent helping your Liberal friends
 see the light.

[humanure]

Elaborate, for my curiosity.

[Tbar]

Finally something we agree on, I may need professional help. Now back to disagreement, I didn't say you were getting emotional, I said you are emotion driven. Your view is clouded at best. Your reputable sources are all pro wolf sources. They are not on par with current factual science   from a non biased viewpoint. 

[humanure]

I get the same science as anyone else. Whether i choose to believe it all is another story.

I still disagree that this is emotion driven. I've always played the diplomat in arguements. It's something I'm used to. I feel that I'm coming from a logical point of view, just like I'm sure you all feel thats where your coming from. In reality, i don't care if I change any of your minds. But I honestly appreciates discussions and conversive exchanges on subjects that I have interest in. I feel whether the outcome is complete disagreement or a mutual coming to middle of ground, any discussion is not a waste is both sides are sincere with what they say. Whether you believe it or not, I hold a mutual respect for anyone here and do not use what is said here to damn anyones charactor.

[Tbar]

Damn my character. You and I will never see eye to eye. I feel very different than you about engaging you in conversation, I think I just wasted two hours I can't get back.

[humanure]

Thats what makes conversations worth having. How boring is it when everyone agree's with eachother? Dialogue is a worthwhile excersize. How else are you suppossed to hone your knowledge and how you defend what you believe to be true?

[hughjorgan]

A good friend of mine manned general stores and tourist shops last year in Montana and said wolf merch sells at an astronomical rate.

I wouldn't be as stupid to say what establishments I volunteer for(I don't like to be paid for this kind of thing), but they are many and they vary alot. I also volunteer at a sheep farm and have skinning, gutting and quartering down to a *censored* science. I also brain-tan hides and help with side jobs sheering sheep and trimming feet. Then I also am an advocate for German Shepherds, so I foster for the Shepherd rescue for ones waiting to be adopted. I like to volunteer and do things that I feel good about.

I've stated my purpose here. Show a different side of the arguement and hopefully discourage fellow hunters from commiting law-breaking acts that portray hunters as blood thirsty psychopaths.

Maybe around yellowstone, but what about all the other communities that lost hunting opportunity to the wolf. People don't show up at these places to buy wolf souvenirs. It may be big business at yellowstone but the draw there is it is a national park.

Are people showing up in droves in ne Washington to see wolves and patronize local business? You know the answer to that and so do I and the answer is hell no they aren't. The wolf is only big business for the environmentalists like yourself that exploit the animal for monetary reasons, never caring what the economic or biological impacts of bringing back a species will have to rural communities that have to deal with them.

[humanure]

How do i myself exploit something for money when all my work is on a strictly volunteer basis? I'm just saying what I believe, is all.

Also, did you not see that i said that first post about the economy as tongue-in-cheek? I honestly have no interest or care in tourist revenue. I was just playing devil's advocate for a second.

[sirfunkeybut]

what i dont understand is why is it legal to to use deadly force on human that is threatening you or your personal property, but he might go to jail for killing a wolf? I understand that they are protected or whatever but is that saying that the wolf is more valuable than a human?

Im not trying to stir any pot, im honestly curious to see who can shed some light on this

[humanure]

I think for that to be answered in a place like this, its personal preference/opinion. Frankly, I don't hold any value in human life if that person is enchroaching upon my safety. But I treat that as a completely different realm than how I deal with wildlife and its dangers. There's a difference for killing wildlife out of self defense and out of preventing property destruction. This doesn't go for just wolves.

You know what, I'll be a total hypocrite here and say that if I found one of my German Shepherds being attacked by a wolf, i wouldn't hesitate to shoot it if i thought it would save my dogs life. But thats taking into account of personal attachment. Cattle and livestock, on the other hand, is considered by the law and by myself to be completely different. They can be monetarily compensated for if infact a wolf killed it. I also am one of those that support the bill that pushes for excusing the killing of wolves if it is in the act of killing your personal pet, because many of us consider those pets, even the working livestock animals, as members of our family. Cattle however, are not pets.

[bearpaw]

I think for that to be answered in a place like this, its personal preference/opinion. Frankly, I don't hold any value in human life if that person is enchroaching upon my safety. But I treat that as a completely different realm than how I deal with wildlife and its dangers. There's a difference for killing wildlife out of self defense and out of preventing property destruction. This doesn't go for just wolves.

You know what, I'll be a total hypocrite here and say that if I found one of my German Shepherds being attacked by a wolf, i wouldn't hesitate to shoot it if i thought it would save my dogs life. But thats taking into account of personal attachment. Cattle and livestock, on the other hand, is considered by the law and by myself to be completely different. They can be monetarily compensated for if infact a wolf killed it. I also am one of those that support the bill that pushes for excusing the killing of wolves if it is in the act of killing your personal pet, because many of us consider those pets, even the working livestock animals, as members of our family. Cattle however, are not pets.

So you own German Shephards, in another post you said a few of your dogs have been killed by coyotes and cougar. I find it highly unlikely especially if your dogs are shepards. I will say it again, you are not being honest. 

You may have an opinion that livestock producers do have have personnal attachements to their livestock, again you are wrong, that is simply not true. I know many livestock producers who have strong attachments to certain animals in their herd. I know one rancher who has a longhorn cow who has produced 18 calves for him, she has quite the personality and is one of his favorite animals out of all his dogs, horses, or cattle.

There are flaws in the law due to misguided individuals like yourself. But I beleive this wolf issue will run it's course as soon as wolves prove their inability to fit into modern ecosystems. Wolves have already started killing cattle in Stevens County. Whereever wolves go the result is the same, they eat livestock and prove their unsuitability.

Yesterday at the Stevens County Republican convention the following was added to the county platform:

"We are opposed to the Washington Wolf Plan. Washington should have no wolves and wolves should not be listed as a state endangered species."

As wolves spread in Washington and prove their inability to be compatible, additional counties will take similar positions just as they have in idaho and eventually Washington residents will legally kill wolves. 

Yes we shall definitely see how this plays out. 

[bearpaw]

what i dont understand is why is it legal to to use deadly force on human that is threatening you or your personal property, but he might go to jail for killing a wolf? I understand that they are protected or whatever but is that saying that the wolf is more valuable than a human?

Im not trying to stir any pot, im honestly curious to see who can shed some light on this

You are correct, and it's not right that a wolf can legally take your personnal property when another human can not. Wolves have more rights than humans. But this is going to change. 

[ghosthunter]

Nobody is going to change this persons mind.

Don't feed the troll