Barnes TSX

[jeff100]

I was loading up some new test loads up tonight for my .30-06, using Barnes TSX bullets in 165 grain weight.  I always measure the max overall cartridge length for a particular rifle with a bullet touching the lands of my rifle, and back off the OAL a bit.  Barnes recommends .050 gap between the bullet contacting the lands.  I can not achieve this distance, if I do, the case mouth edge lands on a groove in the bullet.  I taper crimp my rifle loads, so this isn't going to fly.  I settled for .030 gap, which leaves one of the bullet grooves fully exposed in the loaded cartridge.  I see no issue with this exposed groove, but I don't like it anyway.  Has anyone else experienced this problem with the Barnes TSX bullets??

I also load these for my .260 Remington and do not have this problem.  These bullets are very accurate in this rifle/caliber.  I was hoping for the same in my .30-06.  Range testing will tell...but if I don't get the accuracy I'm looking for, and the consistent velocity, it's back to Hornady bullets for me...

Geeze, I should follow my own advice.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

Jeff

[jackelope]

factory 165 tsx's in federal premiums are what i found works best for my '06. i am not a reloader till i buy a bigger house. 

[257 Wby Mag]

I used to get caught up in the "better'' boolit game too Jeff, I do alot of killin with plain ol' hornady's....

[Ray]

Jeff,

Yes I experienced the same problem. I am switching over to another brand of bullets because of this. I will just shoot up my tsx's and when they're gone I am considering the e-tip's from Nosler and have good loads already in my .25-06 with some Nosler Partitions. I also like Hornday bullets. I must say that the TSX shoot well out of my rifle but reloading them is kind of a finnecky game. I guess all reloading seems to be a bunch of fiddling game to me 

[jeff100]

Ray, I considered the E-tip, I really like the idea of a solid copper alloy bullet that holds together so well.  But Nosler doesn't yet produce one in 165 grains for the 30 cal..  Maybe I should go with 150's since they don't breakup while punching through, retained weight would be approx the same as a lead 165 grain...maybe.

.25-06 eh?  I love that caliber.  I built one last year and developed a couple of loads for it.  That thing was a death ray, I loved it.  Groups you could cover with a nickle at a hundred yards.  What I didn't love about it was that when I was done it weighted in at about 9 lbs.  Since I was building myself a general purpose all round hunting rifle that was too heavy.  So, I sold that rifle to a buddy who wanted to reach out and touch some yotes, and bought two more rifles (sell one, buy two...it's a disease).  I replaced the .25-06 with a .260 Rem (Ruger M77 Compact) and love it.  Great caliber, slightly bigger bullet.  But it's a death ray too....

A light weight death ray....oh yeah.

[Curly]

which leaves one of the bullet grooves fully exposed in the loaded cartridge.  I see no issue with this exposed groove, but I don't like it anyway.  Has anyone else experienced this problem with the Barnes TSX bullets??

If I remember correctly, my TSX loads have two grooves exposed.  I'll have to go look tonight to be sure.......maybe only one groove is exposed.  I've never had a problem because of it.

[Intruder]

I don't think I have that problem.  In fact just the opposite on my 300 win.  I have to seat the bullet pretty deep in order to fit it in my magazine.  As such I don't think the grooves are exposed.

Have you ever tried it without a crimp?  I don't think there'd be an issue if you weren't crippin em.  You may also want to try a 150.  With the weight retention on the TSX a 150 may actually shoot real well out of a 30-06... givin you higher velocities. 

   

[Curly]

Good point, Intruder.  W/ a 30-06 a 150gr TSX would be a very good choice. 

[Curly]

I did remember wrong.  My .300 Win Mag loads are seated with one groove exposed.  Mine is set at about 0.030" from the lands if I remember correctly. COL for mine is 3.493"......my Steyr has a long throat.  For my Model 70, I have to seat the bullet so that COL is 3.340" or so.

BTW -  my accuracy is excellent with the bullet seated like in that picture.  I consistently can shoot 1" groups at 200 yards and occasionally I've gotten 1/2" groups.  (I rarely shoot at 100 yards.)

[MountainWalk]

Thats very interesting.

[Ray]

Curly that is how mine are seated in my .25-06. I would also agree that they shoot well. However my gun just shoots well with many other bullets. Considering that. I get worried if I cannot get close to the overall length. Which has been a problem with the barnes bullets. I'm not a fan of these bullets but to each his own.

[MountainWalk]

Do any of you guys know if the Barnes bullets come in roundnose configuration?  I myself have never shot any of them, but I am interested in not shooting lead anymore.

[Ray]

They have this. It's all I know about http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/banded-solids/

[GoldTip]

Well, I have never loaded Barnes bullets personally, but have heard from friends who have loaded them that they perform exceptionally well on game.  However very difficult to load out to Cartridge outside length due to their excessive length versus weight when compared to a bullet which has lead.  This has kept me away from Barnes bullets as a whole..

[high country]

i load the tsx'x in quite a few of my rifles. I too have some guns that like the length to end up on a groove. has not been a problem for me yet. I am pretty sure I can lay claim to one of the quickest recoiling rifles ever and it never budged a tsx that was un crimped.

[Curly]

I have heard that many rifles shoot very accurately with TSX bullets even if loaded to have a jump to the lands as much as 0.200".  It would be worth trying even if you can't get close to the recommended 0.050" jump.  I believe that earlier Barnes bullets (original X and XLC) were more finicky regarding bullet seating depth and the closer to the lands the better.  Experimenting with length lead me to find a sweet spot at 0.030", but it did shoot well seated at 0.150" from the lands also.  Some rifles may like a little bit more of a jump........its hard to know until you try.

I don't crimp mine either......and the 300 Win mag has such a short neck that you would think that if any cartridge would cause an uncrimped bullet to move, it would be in the 300WM.

[Intruder]

I remember when I was first working up my load that I followed Barne's recommendation about distance from the lands.  My loads shot very well but the COL was too long for the clip mag on my A-bolt.  I was afraid that shortening would effect the load.  In the end it didn't seem to matter at all.  I just checked my loads and all the rings are definitely inside the case.  I'm not sure how far off the lands I am but it's a ways.

[jeff100]

Thanks everybody, I really appreciate the information.  Attached is what I ended up with.  The Barnes tech data recommends a gap of .050 between the bullet and the lands, I had to settle for .030.  I will find out in the morning at the range what performance is possible with this load.  I thought about the penetration of these bullets and agree with the person that suggested 150 grain bullet would probably perform close to what the 165 does in lead.  If I had not already stocked up on the 165's, I'd switch to the 150's.  I do really like these bullets, so I hope to continue using them...

[jeff100]

Just back from the range, where I spent the morning testing loads in my Ruger .30-06.  The Barnes bullet shot very well.  Deviation was about 20 fps at the velocity I was hoping for, and groups just over an inch at 200 yards.  Approx 2800 fps/165 grain TSX.

I'm happy.

[bobcat]

That's great shooting, especially from a Ruger! 

[jeff100]

That rifle was new last year, I've been breaking in the barrel, and I've done a partial trigger job on it.  Partial, meaning it still needs some creep removed....but it's not bad as it is.  Probably won't mess with it again until after hunting season is over.

Oh..wait.

Hunting season...is NEVER over....

[jeepasaurusrex]

We loaded up a 10 round batch of .270win with 150gr Barnes TSX Flatbase #27746 with 54 grains of Hogdon 4831 powder.

Here is the muzzle velocity's for the 10 rounds. Chrony was about 12' in front of bench.
FPS
2523
2563
2566
2558
2561
2543
2614
2616
2539
2564
Average of the group was 2565fps.

I'm wondering if the brass had something to do with the inconsistency in the FPS.
It was all brass that had been reloaded a couple of times. We're going to load up another batch with brand new brass and see if that makes a difference.

We also just loaded up a batch of Nosler 150gr Ballistic Silver Tips. Cant wait to give them a try (See Avatar).

The regular hits were either 130gr Hornady, or Nosler 130gr.

The gold color (copper) hits were from the Barnes bullets.
The little nicks are from a .22 my 7yr old daughter was shooting.... not bad for a kid putting rounds on target at 110yds.

Target material is 3/4" A36 steel @ 110yds.

[jeff100]

I'm wondering if the brass had something to do with the inconsistency in the FPS.

It's hard to say, I don't know what max load is for that powder/bullet/caliber combo is.  I can tell you though, that today at the range shooting my Barnes TSX reloads, I was getting more deviation in velocity than I like to see, UNTIL, I got to the higher powder charge/velocities.  At the top end of the velocity, my deviation really dropped off to almost nothing.  Accuracy was real good too at the highest velocities.  I always look for pressure signs getting too high, and could see NO evidence of too much pressure.  In fact, I was a bit surprised how reasonable pressures seemed given the velocity I was getting (2800+ fps).

At 2500+ fps velocity in a .270, seems to me you've still got some room to pump your loads up a bit and that may help reduce your deviation by quite a bit with the Barnes bullets.

My  worth... 

[jeepasaurusrex]

Sounds like a good place to start. With this next batch I will bump up the powder a bit.