New gun/reloading lesson/scope-zeroing lesson/bullet question/primer question

[j.galloway]

Can I roll all 5 topics into one? 



Anyway, Gun first...

This is actually my (older) Savage Stevens 200 with a 6-24x50 Barska Scope that I got several months ago. Shortly after I started getting reloading equipment.



Awesome rifle, using hand loads I can get a barely visible cloverleaf at 100 yards (nearly goes through the same hole 3x in a row)


Now I finally got all the pieces in,

Drum roll....
Browning Xbolt hunter 30-06 with Nikon 4-9X40 scope.


Its a sweet rifle.

reloading lesson part 1

So anyway I start by getting data for the best bullet seating for both Nosler hunter ballistic tip, Accubonds and Hornady A-max.

I loaded em up with the starting load of IMR 4895. and this morning headed to the range.

So I had 20 rounds of Amax and 20 of BT.

The first rounds I picked to fire was Amax so I can start sighting my scope in. I bore sighted and found the scope was practically parallel with the barrel. So I try to load up Amax, and found the bolt wouldn't close. Same problem with the whole box.

I guess I was trying to get it to the 1/32" from the rifling, so I think my electronic measuring lost its zero (so it was off a few hundredths of an inch.

So I try my BT batch... and the first few loaded and fired fine.  then I get to a few that the bolt would not close. This was an interesting problem since the other bts where loaded all the same. (and thankfully after I had re zeroed my measurement scale so it was actually 1/32" off.

So I fire the few rounds that did work (14/20) trying to zero in my scope.


scope-zeroing lesson
So I find that the rounds land very close to the target (initially about 4" low and 6" right.)

I start adjusting my scope figuring 1/4" change per click. I get the vertical point dead on after the first bullet. Then came the horizontal, I had to move the scope 6" right. I adjusted and fired... now it was 12" to the right. Figured I was flinching... After 5 more shots, I finally figured I was rotating the adjustment the wrong way 

Reset horizontal, add 6" to left boom... bullseye. 

bullet question

I shot one ballistic tip into a gallon of water. It splashed, but not as big as I thought it would. I saw a .223 varmageddon hit a pop can with water and it made water fly further and bigger (the top landed 20' away). 

So on close inspection:



The round looked like it went right through the jug with little or no expansion. Now I'm not really experienced with 30 cal penetration, but shouldn't the bullet have expanded... at least a little bit? It would have made a bigger splash. Or maybe BTs don't expand well?

back to reloading lesson part 2

OK back at the loading bench, I pressed the Amax down about .04" and it worked perfectly.
Now the BT problems. I saved a round that would load and was comparing it to the one that couldn't. I couldn't see a difference in size at all.

I line up the ones that worked and ones that didnt, and saw a trend.... the ones that fired where RP and the ones that didnot where FC.

See I was using brass that was a gift from my reloading 'teacher' apparently the federals where just a tad longer or has more headspace than my rifle so it would not close the bolt.

So lesson learned, when getting used brass from someone, check to see the bolt closes before putting primers, powder and bullets in it. (on the plus side, I figured out how to use my impact bullet puller  )

I start picking through all the brass and guess whats going to happen to the the dozen or so federal cartridges. 

primer question

Now I have 6ish rounds of brass that have the bullet and powder pulled, but still have the primers in them. So what do I do with them? They are unfired primers, so I don't think I should just throw them away. Can they be popped out and reused? Or is it dangerous doing that and better to keep my fingers (I really like them you know  )

[Wazukie]

I would just pop those primer out with the decapper, I've never had a problem doing it, but thats me

[smdave]

I have also deprimed cases with good primer, but why do you need to are you not going to reload them and seat the bullet deeper?

[j.galloway]

I have also deprimed cases with good primer, but why do you need to are you not going to reload them and seat the bullet deeper?

Even after a full length re-size, I attempted to put a (unloaded, unprimed) brass into the chamber, and the bolt still wouldn't close.

Even without a bullet it still wouldn't close. and I did measure the cartridge length, to be less than the max of 2.494. (I think I trimmed it to 2.485, I'd have to look to make sure.) Anyway the other brass of the same trim length where FL re-sized (before trimming) and where able to chamber fine.

[smdave]

Just toss them if you are thinking about not using them again, I would look at how I was F/L sizing them.

[wraithen]

You shouldn't be able to reuse the primers. At 3 cents a primer its not worth it. If you don't want to risk anything popping out the primers I've been told that soaking them overnight in wd-40 will render them inert. I did that. Next bonfire I'm going to see if it worked. 

[Huntbear]

I have also deprimed cases with good primer, but why do you need to are you not going to reload them and seat the bullet deeper?

Even after a full length re-size, I attempted to put a (unloaded, unprimed) brass into the chamber, and the bolt still wouldn't close.

Even without a bullet it still wouldn't close. and I did measure the cartridge length, to be less than the max of 2.494. (I think I trimmed it to 2.485, I'd have to look to make sure.) Anyway the other brass of the same trim length where FL re-sized (before trimming) and where able to chamber fine.

ok, if everything is trimmed to the same length,  look at the shoulder of your brass.  I am betting if you measure carefully that will be the problem with the ones that will not let the bolt close.   Certain brass is softer than others, and some will almost crush down and expand the shoulder so it will not chamber.  I had this issue with 300 WSM brass when I first started reloading for my brother.

[Huntbear]

Oh, and nice guns...

as for the Ballistic Tips not expanding on the water jug...  Nosler has increased the thickness of the bullet jackets on a lot of the BT bullets.  For example a 120 gr. 7mm BT has the same thickness bullet jacket as a 140 gr. BT...  so it performs like a 140 gr. but at better velocities. 

Long story short.. they have been redesigned so they do not blow up on impact of a twig or a milk jug, or a coffee can..  IF they did, can you imagine what they would do on the shoulder of an animal??

[Biggerhammer]

Holy flaming fajitas!!! Please get that scope center closer to the bore.

[high country]

You can resize without popping the primers out.....just pull the decapper pin. Fl size till the shell holder hits the die and try a bare case.....if it fits, and it should.....load a round and try. If it does not chamber easily, measure your neck diameter in at 12&3 o'clock.

If you trimmed, and sized then neck thickness is all that's left to hold you up.

And playing on the fajita theme, do you have some kind of cheek riser on top of the stock? It looks like a pain to get snuggled in to.

[j.galloway]

Just toss them if you are thinking about not using them again, I would look at how I was F/L sizing them.

There is only 20 rounds of federals and about 140ish of Remington brass that I got from this buddy. Yes they where well used but they where free so I wasn't complaining.   

Anyway, I checked.. a cleaned non-resized Remington kinda fit, but was very snug, after F/L it goes in and out like a brand new brass.

I was thinking of resizing them a few more times before scrapping them.. just to be sure.

You shouldn't be able to reuse the primers. At 3 cents a primer its not worth it. If you don't want to risk anything popping out the primers I've been told that soaking them overnight in wd-40 will render them inert. I did that. Next bonfire I'm going to see if it worked. 

There's only 6 rounds that have primers in it, so its not like I'm going to go bankrupt with loosing them  Just was wondering if it was the right thing to do.

Oh, and nice guns...

as for the Ballistic Tips not expanding on the water jug...  Nosler has increased the thickness of the bullet jackets on a lot of the BT bullets.  For example a 120 gr. 7mm BT has the same thickness bullet jacket as a 140 gr. BT...  so it performs like a 140 gr. but at better velocities. 

Long story short.. they have been redesigned so they do not blow up on impact of a twig or a milk jug, or a coffee can..  IF they did, can you imagine what they would do on the shoulder of an animal??

Thanks
I'm used to the .223 varmint rounds, the ones that break apart on paper.  So it was interesting to see that that much water would not make it mushroom at all.

Well Saterday I went and shot 3 hard drives placed together with the BT and the first hole is 30 cal size, second about .50 and the third... well could have been shot by a cannon but anyway.. 

Holy flaming fajitas!!! Please get that scope center closer to the bore.

Yeah it is up there a little ways 

First scope mounting, I was going off ring height of 'high' for 50mm, but I didn't take into account the weaver mounts.... forgive my lack of experience... 

You can resize without popping the primers out.....just pull the decapper pin. Fl size till the shell holder hits the die and try a bare case.....if it fits, and it should.....load a round and try. If it does not chamber easily, measure your neck diameter in at 12&3 o'clock.

If you trimmed, and sized then neck thickness is all that's left to hold you up.

And playing on the fajita theme, do you have some kind of cheek riser on top of the stock? It looks like a pain to get snuggled in to.

I have a few brass that don't even have the primers in them. If they work by resizing, then I might try this on the ones that do.. as long as the resizing wont set them off or lube dis-activate them?


Oh and the scope height actually fits me well. I normally wear ear muffs which I never noticed it before, but now with the lower-to-bore rifle I notice the muff gets in the way, but the high .223 doesn't. I just have to barely touch the stock with the muff and I have this spot on my chin that I just fit it too and I'm looking right down the scope. I can close my eyes and pull it up and it fits good. Imagine that




So I took another look at the brass (that have not been F/L sized) and compared to the Remington (that has been sized). Putting them on the table and looking was able to see just a tiny difference.

It looks like the shoulder-body starts at the same place  (compared to the Remington) but the shoulder-neck part is longer (further from the head) than the Remington. Its like the neck got pulled out a bit more or something. It looked like the F/L sizer put it back in place, but maybe the sizer wasn't in the press properly, or I didn't go down far enough. So its like .001" off I think another round of sizing might just do the trick.

[Biggerhammer]

If your full length sizing properly for the first time on this brass. Just make sure your FL die is set properly, With the ram and shell holder all the way up. Screw the FL die all the way in until it touches the shell holder, then give it a bit more so as it cams over. It sounds like it was just a simple issue of bumping the shoulder. You shouldn't have to repeat the FL process if your FL die is set properly to begin with.

[hunter105]

I have had the same sizing issue with two Xbolts I reload for both in 300wsm.  The federal cases seem to be the culprit.  Out of a bag of 100 brand new, primed cases about half wouldn't chamber in one gun.  Winchester cases seem to not have any problems.  I have gone to not reloading FC cases.

[j.galloway]

If your full length sizing properly for the first time on this brass. Just make sure your FL die is set properly, With the ram and shell holder all the way up. Screw the FL die all the way in until it touches the shell holder, then give it a bit more so as it cams over. It sounds like it was just a simple issue of bumping the shoulder. You shouldn't have to repeat the FL process if your FL die is set properly to begin with.

I tried running them through the FL again. The instructions said the same, but 'a bit more' is from 1/8 to 1/4 turn I go for the 1/4 turn.

Tried cambering them, managed to close the bolt on a few, but was still very tight. The rest still wouldn't close. They where definitely trimmed to length, (less than max even)

 

I have had the same sizing issue with two Xbolts I reload for both in 300wsm.  The federal cases seem to be the culprit.  Out of a bag of 100 brand new, primed cases about half wouldn't chamber in one gun.  Winchester cases seem to not have any problems.  I have gone to not reloading FC cases.

It could be the x-bolt, since these brass worked in another .30-06 before. Wish I had my dads Abolt to try just test it, but I have lots of other brass to load with anyway.