Author Topic: Predator Hunting from a ground blind (Read 14023 times)

DeKuma · « **on:** August 06, 2008, 09:24:02 AM »

Been thinking of doing some calling and shooting for predators and bear. My daughter and I went out this weekend and she was pretty nervouse sitting on the ground. I was wondering if you think using my turkey blind would be a good idea? I am thinking it might help with movement and make her feel more secure, but understand predators such as coyote have excellent eyesight, so would the blind stand out a lot?
Going to build an E-Caller I saw on Predator Masters this weekend. Downloaded a bunch of sounds in MP3 to give it a try.

rainshadow1 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2008, 09:53:45 AM »

Ground blinds are very effective, especially for predators; all of which are quite keen eyed. Most don't use them because so many stands are so quick. It's too much headache to set up, then tear down every 30 mins.

SpokaneSlayer · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2008, 09:55:36 AM »

If the blind is light enough to carry to multiple stands, go for it. Coyotes do have excellent sight, but if it can fool a turkey at close range, it should fool a yote.

Would that e-caller be the El Cheapo from Varmint Al's website? I built one and it works pretty well. Used it until I had the money for a Foxpro.

DeKuma · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2008, 10:10:12 AM »

Yes, same call as on VarmintAl's. Figured I might as well try it out before I decide I am hooked on it. Have a little Primos E-Caller, but it seems to kind of suck compared the sounds I have heard.

The blind is pretty light, stools would be a hassle moving. What I did over the weekend was to tuck back in the brush and lay camo burlap across the trees in front of me to hid any movement she might make. Did not get any takes to calling except a doe and fawn who were curious, but not the least bit scared.

Do you rally move about every 30 minutes? How far do you move from one stand to the next?

SpokaneSlayer · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2008, 03:02:18 PM »

30 minutes seems to be the standard. I've had yote's show up later than that. For bobcats, 45 minutes to an hour is the norm.

As for distance, I typically move quite a distance. My reasoning is I hunt really open territory and figure anything in the area can hear me from a ways out. But that's just me.

Bofire · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2008, 06:30:16 PM »

I think (like that means something!!LOL) that a ground blind might work real well for bear, I think a coyote will spot a blind at about 3 miles. Its hard enough not to move and hide just your body. I think coyotes are much more aware, I mean what hunts Bear? here? 'cept for Humans?

coyotes however are spooked by everything and they know every inch of the territory. Now if you mean to build a blind and leave it there to use for years?? That is a GREAT idea. I do carry a camo leafy cloth that I can drape on bushes in front of me about 5'X9'.
Sometimes I call for an hour, sometimes 10 minutes. the size of the area and the way sound carries varies. I think most folks call too loud and too fast, based on calling animals, I could see, but I am no expert. Animals hear really good. When I say too fast I mean they call too soon after setting up, give it a few minutes, I like 15 to 30 minutes before I start. If it is a tiny spot, call quick and quiet, you'll stink up the area soon anyway.
my 2
Carl

demontang · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2008, 08:16:40 PM »

From what I have see a coyote will spook with a blind, if the blind is in heavy cover you might get away with it. If you have to move around a lot to set the blind up or make noise doing it, you will want to set for a while before calling. I would try putting up the cloth like Carl said, coyote's are very smart and if they have been hunted there even smarter.

AWS · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2008, 11:59:07 AM »

I would invest in a remote caller such as a JS PM-4 or a used Foxpro 416 ans sit back to back with your daughter so she knows nothing will sneak up on her till she gets more comfortable in the field. The remote caller will keep the sound away from you and will focus the pred attention other than on the spot you are sitting in. Even a cheap JS attractor will do the same in combination with a hand call.

AWS

DeKuma · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2008, 12:27:37 PM »

I will be building an El Cheapo E-caller as found on Predator Masters tomorrow. I have downloaded and cleaned up about 60 sound files and got them set-up in sequences on my iPod. Figure if I really like this whole predator thing, I can buy a good call down the road. Hoping to get out after Bear/Cougar and Yotes this weekend.

tlbradford · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2008, 02:22:47 PM »

Instead of using the radio shack speaker, you can purchase a TOA speaker which is what is used on Foxpro for their external and Minsaka Bandits.

tlbradford · « **Reply #10 on:** August 07, 2008, 02:30:25 PM »

On the ground blind, I would go without it. The number one advantage of an ecaller is to get the sound away from you. If a predator is focusing on the caller and not on you, then you can get away with a little more movement. Having something come in 30 yards away, rather than in your lap should help make her feel secure.

DeKuma · « **Reply #11 on:** August 07, 2008, 02:47:45 PM »

Quote from: tlbradford on August 07, 2008, 02:22:47 PM

Instead of using the radio shack speaker, you can purchase a TOA speaker which is what is used on Foxpro for their external and Minsaka Bandits.

Thanks for the advice. I looked at the FoxPro speakers as well. Only issue is having to order and wait for them!
I am anxious to get back out there and give it a shot. Been spending a lot of lurking time on predator masters and fox pro as of late and it is getting me even more pumped up to go!

gramps · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2008, 04:29:49 PM »

Dekuma...I built one of Al's callers a while back. Used some old phone wire to get the speaker 100+ feet away and works well. I need better sounds, but will work on that this fall. I have a ground blind and am not sure how it works or not...had mixed results. With the little windows open, movement inside can be seen from a long way away.

billythekidrock · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2008, 07:54:51 PM »

What are you using to clean up your sounds?

I too built the el cheapo and was not happy with the results. It was fun having a project to work on, but the end results left alot to be desired. I had to make the leap to a Foxpro Scorpion and I may have jumped to quick. I like the Scorpion, but I am not sure they have all the bugs worked out and it is not loud enough at times.

DeKuma · « **Reply #14 on:** August 08, 2008, 09:57:13 AM »

I downloaded close to 100 sounds from various places and then listened to all of them. I chose the cleanest ones I could find, and sorted them into sequences.
I looked into the programs to clean the sounds, but I am not too sure I know what I am doing enough to work it. Audacity and Golwave were both reccomended on Predator Masters.

Would love to buy a FoxPro, but then I would be homeless as the wife would kick me out. Especially when she knows I am also looking at more archery stuff and a seperate predator rifle, a new handgun, quad, exhaust for the truck and so on........

sivart33 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 08, 2008, 03:18:13 PM »

http://www.western-rivers.com/downloads.html

sounds like they use real sounds too.

billythekidrock · « **Reply #16 on:** August 08, 2008, 04:12:13 PM »

Dekuma - remember the Audacity tutorial. It really is simple. I have found that most of the WR sounds are ok, and some are downright junk.

Krusty · « **Reply #17 on:** August 08, 2008, 05:35:10 PM »

Coyotes, don't care about sound quality...

But, they aren't selling $500 e-callers, now, are they?

Krusty

DeKuma · « **Reply #18 on:** August 08, 2008, 05:39:57 PM »

Well, looked in to the pricing for all the stuff to make an e-caller given the instructions from PM. All told came out to $58. I then looked at the Cass Creek Big Horn at $40. Opted for that. Once hooked up to my iPod and the sound is playing, I can hear how bad some of them sound from a distance. (Neighboors love me right now)

Looks like I am going to have to go back to BTKR's Audacity Tutorial and clean them up. Want head out in the morning, so will need to work on them for a while tonight.

I really wanted to drop the money on a FoxPro, but figured since I am just starting I should do everything the hard way instead.

AWS · « **Reply #19 on:** August 08, 2008, 06:18:32 PM »

You don't realy need very many sound for actual hunting. A foxpro 416 will cover just about every sound a caller would really need. Howling sounds are realy overrated especially with all the beginners howling all over the place. Sometimes I'll start a stand with a single howl but I find myself even dropping that as I started getting other hunters homing in on me. I have a Minaska M-1 with a hundred sounds and have never used more than 10 or 12. I just bought a 416 off the sight here as a backup and it would be great as a main caller. When I get into realy big country or am pushing wind I use a JS Preymaster 1st generation coupled to a JS Power-Pro, cheap but will blow down brush in front of the speaker. I also use a JS Attractor with a Handcall that I throw in the back of my hunting coat while bird hunting.

AWS

rainshadow1 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 08, 2008, 06:19:44 PM »

You've entered the vortex... there's no escape.... there's no bottom!

I started with a home made MP3 based at around $50, low volume,
then went to a $100 phantom, piece of junk,
then got tired of trying to be cheap and just went ahead and went to the top.... Wildlife Technologies.
Got a used one $450, hunted it for a year,
then got a brand new one $850.
Then a year later got 22 new sounds $250.
Also got a Minaska M1 Bandit for backup $449.

And I'm a hand call maker! So the e-calls are a sideline! (Do they have a 12 step program for predator calling?!?!)

Go ahead and get the ground blind, it'll be the cheapest predator calling toy you'll ever buy!!!

DeKuma · « **Reply #21 on:** August 08, 2008, 06:26:34 PM »

Well Steve, as soon as I get one of your calls and learn to use it, I might do the hand calls too!
The only reason i am being "cheap" right now is my wife and I are trying to become debt free, so every penney is scrutinized. Sucks, I would rather be poor and happy!

Learning a lot from here and Predator Masters. Not much on bear and cougar calling there though, but a wealth of coyote!
After seeing BTKR here and PM with his successes, and stories, makes me REALLY want to make it happen. Would love to use the bow too! (Think I will hold off on that and stick with the big gun!)

Bofire · « **Reply #22 on:** August 08, 2008, 06:49:35 PM »

:)ahhh, geez Krusty I was hoping to get the "Krusty" Live at Wood stock" version

As far as sound quality, like from an "electronic sense" I agree with Krusty. I have heard some 'god awful' sounds that worked. I love lip squeaks.
At the same time I think the confidence in your calling and call that you can make the "sound you want when you want" is absolutely critical.
Carl

Krusty · « **Reply #23 on:** August 08, 2008, 07:38:31 PM »

DeKuma,

While you might be able to hear how bad the sound quality is, I can assure you, all a coyote (that actually IS around to hear it) hears... is the dinner bell.

Before you spend a lot of effort cleaning up your sounds, try lowering the "gain" you get from connecting multiple amplifiers in series.
Use less than 40-50% volume on your driver (in your case an I-Pod), and just enough volume that you can barely hear it, from your bi-amp (in your case the Cass Creek unit).

I use my e-caller as a short to medium range attractant, and supplement that very low volume with occasional (quiet) hand calling.

My own success ratio went way up, when I stopped wailing on the hand calls, or having my e-caller wailing.

Loudness is way way over-rated.

I can leave home, with three cassette tapes and a few calls, and not use but one of the tapes, maybe two.

So, to me, a vast (on board) library, is just as over-rated.

I've got one tape, that produces above all others, and it's a recording of a sound made with a man's lips.
My second best tape was a recording of a fox whistle (which is one of my most productive (very quiet) hand calls)... but it got sat on.

Notice I said tape... my home-built e-caller, playing tired old tapes, sounds like crap... and works great (when I hunt IN A GREAT PLACE).

*NOTE: Learning how not to stack the deck, against yourself, is the hardest part of predator hunting.
Calls nor calling, will re-stack it once dealt...

Rainshadow,

I must be vortex proof?

I don't see the justification of price, so even if it weren't for my personal decision not to financially support most of the e-caller manufacturers (because of the internet politics), I would be hard pressed to find enough value/pay-off in owning much more of a "gadget" than I do now.

Top that off, with a true love of using a hand call, and I'm all good with the "vortex"...

Carl,

You're hoping for what?

Oh geeze, confidence... you know I think that's a load of bull.

I've called several coyotes, when I was SURE I was doomed to fail (yet again).
I was NOT confident... how did I succeed without it?

I've got a theory... the biggest thing that changed, from when I was not successful to when I became more so... was location.

If I go back to where I found failure, loaded with confidence, I'd probably only find failure, again.
Coyotes there, are less callable...

Now a guy might get lucky, like we did at the Long Fence, and wander a few hundred yards off the well beaten path (road) and call a coyote, now and then.
But not with enough regularity to be worth much in the way of education.

If I want real success, I'll have to go and find it, in an area with lots of coyotes, that are less educated than I am.

Krusty

DeKuma · « **Reply #24 on:** August 08, 2008, 07:53:48 PM »

Guess I will find out this weekend.............

Lots of coyotes on our property in Colville, but I am not making that drive this weekend. Had them calling back and forth last week, but I could not call them in with just rabbit distress.

Looking more for bears this weekend, but if my 300 gets to bark at a coyote, I will not pass up the chance.

I appreciate all of the help and feedback thus far. I will keep you posted.

sivart33 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 08, 2008, 08:57:47 PM »

since we are on the subject of calling, wondering about rotations of calls(ditressed cotten tail) 30 sec on wait 5-7 min rinse repeate? or any other rotation. not really much info i have found but still looking as i am typing this.....so anyoen got a god rotation of silence and sounds?

Bofire · « **Reply #26 on:** August 09, 2008, 09:05:13 AM »

:)It was a back handed compliment to the quality of your calls Krusty, and how you use them. Only the best were at woodstock!
(o course, I think I play em better than you!!

)
Carl

Krusty · « **Reply #27 on:** August 09, 2008, 12:19:16 PM »

Carl,

I don't like being backhanded... not even in a complimentary way.

I'd rather "get it" straight up.

If you were looking for me to "toot my own horn", you know me... and that ain't happening.

The calls I make, aren't any different from any of the calls I didn't make... they (*almost) all operate, mechanically, governed by the laws and principles of physics...
A reed oscilates, moving the air, which in turn moves one's ear drum... creating "sound".

(*Whistles, create sound, in a non-mechanical way... it's all fluid dynamics)

Nothing I can do, as a call maker or a caller, changes this, sound is still sound there's no magic added to it.
And, anyone can do what I do.

LOL You think... I'm down for a contest... winner takes all, my collection against yours?

(*A bluff/challenge like that, is the only place confidence in my ability to call will do any real good.

)

Sivart,

Your's is a good question, and one with a vast array of right answers.

I'll tell you a couple of the main schools of thought, then my own use of calling.

Some people believe that one should call intermittently, "announcing" the opportunity, but trying not to give away their exact location.
They hope to have a predator approach more slowly, searching for the source.

The other end of that is those who call non-stop (that's the side I'm on).
With the theory I think best illustrates this being, that an animal uses it's senses picking the easiest first.
It's easy to hear, and to pinpoint prey with it.

It's harder to get busted just by making sounds... it's when animal are forced to switch to their other senses, that your chances of being found out increase dramatically.
Sight is one, still as a stone, full camo'ed, a coyote will "look at you".
Smell is even bigger, one whiff, and the game is over.

If you continuously call, you never force the animal to "switch".

By using an e-caller, in a remote position upwind of yourself, continuously calling at low volume, supplemented by slightly louder handcalling, you are giving every opportunity for approaching predators to continue using nothing but their ears.

This is one of the ways (I see) of NOT stacking the deck in the coyotes favor.

Using some form of motion, also remote to your location, will stack the deck your way even further... once they do "switch" they'll have something that isn't YOU, upon which to focus their sight, and they'll associate that sight, with the sound.

Krusty

billythekidrock · « **Reply #28 on:** August 09, 2008, 01:35:29 PM »

Quote

After seeing BTKR here and PM with his successes, and stories, makes me REALLY want to make it happen.

Right on...btw, I got one today.

sivart33 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 09, 2008, 02:41:53 PM »

ty krusty, smart guy.

that made more sense then most that i have read in most places

bearmanric · « **Reply #30 on:** August 09, 2008, 03:04:18 PM »

Krusty doe's know his stuff. alot of research.i've never seen anyone so serios on the sound's of hand call's. that's a good thing. i have a fancy Foxpro but i bet if all my tape's and Johnny stewart 612 wasnt stolen it would call as good. Rick

tlbradford · « **Reply #31 on:** August 09, 2008, 03:54:16 PM »

Quote from: DeKuma on August 08, 2008, 07:53:48 PM

Guess I will find out this weekend.............

Lots of coyotes on our property in Colville, but I am not making that drive this weekend. Had them calling back and forth last week, but I could not call them in with just rabbit distress.

Looking more for bears this weekend, but if my 300 gets to bark at a coyote, I will not pass up the chance.

I appreciate all of the help and feedback thus far. I will keep you posted.

Dekuma, I would set up closer to the location that you heard the howling your next time out. There may be a physical barrier or you are out of the coyotes range that may make them not want to respond.

Krusty, while I agree with most of what you have written I do find a couple of things contradictory to each other.

You wrote of "not stacking the deck against yourself", but then state that sound quality has no bearing. I have a question. 1) How can you say that sound quality is not a factor in calling coyotes? To me this would be an extremely difficult theory to test. How do you know that you might not call more coyotes with better sound quality, all other factors being equal? Without knowing this for certain, aren't you stacking the deck against you by not using the highest quality sound?

I would also say that Krusty's explanation of the schools of thought on continuous versus sporadic calling, and his opinion that continuous calling is best, is applicable to ecallers, but in my experience it does not apply to hand calls for the following reasons:

1) When blowing hand calls you will usually be moving a little bit. If you are continuously calling you are lending yourself to being seen easier by the incoming coyote.
2) As you are blowing on a call your vision is impaired, by pausing in between sequences, it allows you to scan the country to see if something is coming in.
3) Don't underestimate the power of hearing an approaching coyote that is backdooring you. If you are calling, you are not able to hear footsteps on crunchy snow.

There are other reasons, but they almost all come back to being more easily spotted when the sound is emanating from your location.

Krusty · « **Reply #32 on:** August 09, 2008, 04:55:00 PM »

Willie,

Gee, a "prime" August coyote... good for you?

TLB,

"Only the yippers know, and they ain't saying"... in hunting, there is no "proof".
I'm not offering my opinion, as fact, I'm just offering it.

Yeah, I think one should not stack the deck against themselves, by clomping around, choosing poor stands, calling too loud, moving too much, calling where there aren't enough coyotes, using the wrong firearm, etc.

Way back in the 1950's the Burnham Bros came out with this thing that played super scratchy old 45rpm records... and this was considered a huge advantage...

Now, some 50 years later, you are trying to tell me that same machine would be a detriment?

I'm not buying it.

Here's how I tested my theory... I took my crappy sounding little e-caller, and called coyotes with it, and bobcats, and crows, and turkeys, and deer and elk....
You can't mess with results.

Some, is enough, I feel fortunate that my success ratio has changed for the better, and I absolutely know my e-caller, and using it the way I have been, has helped to bring that positive change about.

Because it isn't where I am, because it doesn't move to call, and because it can make sounds for a longer period of time than I care to, I feel the benefits of the e-caller, even one with some hiss, far far outweigh the negatives of this supposed "poor sound quality", or of not having one at all.

Just like Rick says, his old cassette player, would and did work just fine...
These "tools", if used properly, can add to one's success rate, I'm living proof of that.

Only a highly educated coyote, would recognize poor sound quality as a threat...
Calling coyotes, that are smarter than you, is the best way to set yourself up to fail.

Stacked deck or not, never, let the coyotes deal.

Krusty

DeKuma · « **Reply #33 on:** August 09, 2008, 05:51:35 PM »

I must say, that when I started this thread, I never imagined the wealth of information I would recieve!
All of your knowledge is staggering and I greatly appreciate your guidance!

So, given the multiple schools of thought on calling, I am a little confused now.

Since I have built an E-Caller, should I use a lower volume and also use a hand call? I have watched several videos that switch to a squeeker when the coyote is coming in. Is this the best idea? Since my caller is not truly remote, as I either place it away from me and let it just run through the sequences, or I place it withing 75 feet of me ( the amount of cord I have) and manipulate the iPod to pause or change sounds, should I also use a squeek or hand call sporadically?

Any volunteers to take me out and show me the ropes?

Thank you all again for sharing your vast knowledge on the suject. Have not even gotten a dog yet and all ready I am addicted to the whole scene!

tlbradford · « **Reply #34 on:** August 09, 2008, 08:36:50 PM »

Quote from: Krusty on August 09, 2008, 04:55:00 PM

Some, is enough, I feel fortunate that my success ratio has changed for the better, and I absolutely know my e-caller, and using it the way I have been, has helped to bring that positive change about.

That sounds like you have confidence in your call, but I was pretty sure you told Carl that having confidence didn't make a difference.

I do want to offer up one more thing to think about. 50 years ago there was a small group of predator callers. With the proliferation of predator forums, videos, tv shows, calls, magazines, etc. it is a growing sport. As more and more people take to the field, the possibility of finding uneducated coyotes, besides yoy, is getting tougher. I sit in the same spots in the same areas year after year and I am constantly calling to coyotes that I myself have educated. I want to be able to fool those coyotes as much as possible by doing everything I can. You should take advantage of any edge you can gain in the calling business. Will antiquated equipment still work? Yes. Will the lip squeek be one of the most effective calls you can use until the end of time? Yes. Will certain equipment, new technology, and using it in unique ways give you a greater advantage than doing the same things over and over again, probably.

DeKuma, I would place it away from you, and let your sounds loop at as much volume as possible without getting much distortion from your speaker. Some folks turn off the caller to get coyotes to stop prior to pulling the trigger. I would not worry about mixing in a hand call because you would be eliminating all the advantages of using an ecaller.

Bofire · « **Reply #35 on:** August 09, 2008, 08:39:21 PM »

Every situation is different, just like tossing a fly to a good hole. Some places need load calling, some lower. It takes a lot of experience.

I think in general most folks call too loud and dont scout enough.
Don't call places that look like yote country, call places yotes live. I like to combine electronic and mouth. I have had bad luck with shutting the sound totally off. but I do like to turn it down if "if" I can see the yote a long range. I use lip squeaks alot.

You can always call quiet then get louder, not the other way. What ever you do dont get excited when you see one coming

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!

Do sneak in, not just mosey and GET OFF THE ROAD! Set you sound source where you can see it. Use binoculars. shooting sticks
Carl

saylean · « **Reply #36 on:** August 09, 2008, 08:45:11 PM »

Getting off the road is always good advice...

but last year I called in a yote and bobcat (about 10 minutes apart) 20ft off the road as I was sitting ontop of a log jam....(of course it was way up a loggin road..but still)

which reverts back to the other advice...call where they live...and scout.

I actually had no idea there was a bobcat in the area (I was calling for bears), but I walked up the road later that month and the bobcat I passed on (not in season) was leaving its crap on a rock in the center of the road for I dont know how long, judging from the piles.

Good luck and fun reading all the advice on here. I probably need to do more scouting...I often times just try to find a spot and call into brush, trees, etc...it reminds me of fishing..ya never know what might come.

Krusty · « **Reply #37 on:** August 09, 2008, 09:09:13 PM »

DeKuma,

Again, we're looking at a vast array of right answers.

The general way of using an e-caller goes like this;
Start calling at a low volume, in case somebody is close by... you don't want to blast them out.
After a time (how long? again many right answers, all different), the volume is cranked up, to "reach out" for a while, then faded back down.
And as you say if a coyote is seen squeakers or squeaking, is used to coax them to you.
A couple cycles of this, and you get up and go.

The "new way" is to have your e-caller playing softly, and continuously, and from a second location downwind of the speaker (where you are), at wider intervals, you "reach out" with a hand call or howler.
When the predator is farther away, you don't have to worry about being seen, and that hand calling can bring them into range of hearing the e-caller.
Then that e-caller becomes the focus of their attention, not you, and brings them to it on a string.
By setting up so the speaker is directly upwind, you keep the area you foul with your scent, narrower, and take advantage of the coyotes tendency to circle downwind (which the continuous e-calling is supposed to prevent).
By letting the e-caller in effect be the coaxer, and not focusing that "final approach attention" on you, giving yourself up with a squeak, you give yourself a chance to make a shot, un-noticed.

Think about this, I was parked at a spot just next to I-90, it was about 7:30 am, so there was some traffic... I spotted a coyote hunting his way along the hill, on the far side of the freeway... some 700 yards away, just for giggles, I gave him a squeak.
He bolted up, and looked my way!

I was astonished, but I kept squeaking, and he kept coming, hard, as he got to the livestock tunnel, I decided to make a break for my rifle, since I wouldn't be shooting over the road if he made it to my side... that's when he busted me, the ice on my door cracked as I jumped out, and he retreated... head down, flat topped, and haulin' butt, over the ridge!

So, if you can just barely hear your e-caller, over open ground, it might call a coyote from six or seven hundred yards!

And it's well documented, that a hand call can reach a mile or more, over that same open ground, so you have to take into account that you can call a series, and it might take a coyote on a trot five minutes or so to close that mile... and halfway in, at 2 1/2 minutes, he'll pick up the sound of your coaxing e-caller.

I never touched on my thoughts on your daughter's predicament...
How old is she?
One of the best ways to hide someone who moves, is behind someone who doesn't.

I know this seems simplistic, but look at filmography in hunting...
They often put the camera guy in the back, looking over the shoulder or over the top of the hunter.

You might try a bucket seat, you can carry your small stuff in it, and she can sit on it behind you, with just her face peeking over.
And with her back to the tree (or whatever cover your using) and you in front, she shouldn't have any security issues.
Top it off with the fact that it puts her far behind the firing line, and out of the muzzle blast zone, so the shooting part (should you get to that point) won't be dangerous or bothersome.

I'd be glad to take you out, let me know when?

Krusty

P.S. TLB, I don't absolutely know, in a confidence sense, but I know, in a scientific sense... from keeping a journal and tracking the actual results.
Coyotes numbers called, since I changed the way I use my own e-caller, has improved, on both sides of the hill.
I don't just believe it's a positive change, I have the stats to back it up.
Unlike "mojo" my confidence is based on empirical evidence.

billythekidrock · « **Reply #38 on:** August 10, 2008, 06:20:50 AM »

Quote

You wrote of "not stacking the deck against yourself", but then state that sound quality has no bearing. I have a question. 1) How can you say that sound quality is not a factor in calling coyotes? To me this would be an extremely difficult theory to test. How do you know that you might not call more coyotes with better sound quality, all other factors being equal? Without knowing this for certain, aren't you stacking the deck against you by not using the highest quality sound?

I agree. There is a lot of good advice on this thread, but as usual there are also alot of holes in some theories.
One good reason for using sounds with the best quality is hunter confidence. If you are happy and confident you will be more attentive to the task at hand.

Quote

Willie,

Gee, a "prime" August coyote... good for you?

Krusty,
Ooohh. "Nice slam...good for you!"

Krusty · « **Reply #39 on:** August 10, 2008, 11:01:14 AM »

Willie,

Hunter confidence, has no bearing on what a coyote actually will do... whether he charges, or sneaks, or doesn't respond at all.

I have hunted without confidence, but I never let my discouragement take my head out of the game, hunting, or using a firearm at all, requires it.

Likewise, while fully content, and attentitive, I have been completely surprised, while on stand.
The time the pup coyote trotted through, before we even made a sound fully threw my mind for a loop... I thought "hey who's german shepard puppy is that?"

Okay, now we have established that many people feel that old cassette callers and the like, "poor sounding" callers, will still work.

The only reason new guys like DeKuma would lack confidence in these "poor" sounds... is guys like you blowing smoke up their ass.

I am trying to instill that confidence in them.

Guys, the sound you make is a tiny part of why you will succeed or fail.
Hunting anything, that you call, ducks, elk, or coyotes, takes a lot more than "a sound".
Very few of us, hit the ground running, in any pursuit.
But through effort and experience, listening and learning, and, time and miles, we gain enough skill... not to just succeed, but to be successful.

"If you sit with your back against some cover, and make a sound like something that's dying, and, if there's predators around to hear it... they will come."

Rich Cronk, one of the greatest callers, and call makers, ever.

Take confidence from his words, be brave, get off the internet and actually go out and do it, that's the only way you'll get better at it.

And Willie, my question wasn't a slam, I was just wondering what your self stroking had to do with the topic at hand.
Someone paid you a compliment, and you answered it without a thank you... but a claim of "you got one", in August, probably while bear hunting, an "incidental" if you will... like that's a huge feat, and proof of your own "quality sounds" theory.

Even a blind sow, finds a few acorns.

I have a challenge I have offered for years;

If you can come to my county, and over three consecutive days (no night hunting), manage to call and kill three coyotes... I'll eat the third one!

If your such a bad ass, c'mon up, I got my knife and fork at the ready.

Krusty

billythekidrock · « **Reply #40 on:** August 10, 2008, 11:22:21 AM »

OOoooo

Krusty · « **Reply #41 on:** August 10, 2008, 11:27:11 AM »

Willie,

That attempt at a burn "I bet you haven't killed three coyotes in a season" only further illustrates my point, of how hard this game is.

I'm a fairly experienced caller/hunter, quite good at making sounds with a call, and you're right two (dead and recovered) in a single season is my record.
But KIA stats belie the actual increase in my success ratio, or the numbers called in a single season...
My brother missed three in a weekend, last year, and I missed as many the week of late buck season... I missed one, THREE TIMES!

We are talking about CALLING them here, not killing them.

Krusty

bearmanric · « **Reply #42 on:** August 10, 2008, 11:48:36 AM »

you live in King county. can you hunt there. Rick

billythekidrock · « **Reply #43 on:** August 10, 2008, 11:57:56 AM »

Quote from: bearmanric on August 10, 2008, 11:48:36 AM

you live in King county. can you hunt there. Rick

I don't know if you can hunt there but ther a more yotes in King County then most of the westside.

KillBilly · « **Reply #44 on:** August 10, 2008, 12:01:08 PM »

Krusty, can you give/sell me a copy of your "I'm sitting on a bait" call? Heard it works great for you.

bearmanric · « **Reply #45 on:** August 10, 2008, 12:02:01 PM »

10 more day's i'll be hanging out with the best caller's in the world. at the world predator hunting Expo. i've learned a lot in the last couple year's. will be keeping close attention to the calling contest. i'll be looking for some sort of blind. netting maybe. for calling cougar. i would want something easy. Rick

KillBilly · « **Reply #46 on:** August 10, 2008, 12:07:40 PM »

Quote from: bearmanric on August 10, 2008, 12:02:01 PM

10 more day's i'll be hanging out with the best caller's in the world. at the world predator hunting Expo. i've learned a lot in the last couple year's. will be keeping close attention to the calling contest. i'll be looking for some sort of blind. netting maybe. for calling cougar. i would want something easy. Rick

Does that mean that Krusty will be there? Worlds best by his account. I was told Krusty has perfected a call that combines sound and odor.

Krusty · « **Reply #47 on:** August 10, 2008, 12:53:21 PM »

Killbilly,

I'm sick of your lies, and hearsay.

If you heard that I ever sat over any kind of bait, hunting for any kind of animal (legal to bait or not), or for any other reason, you heard wrong.

Care to divulge your source? Or are you just making *censored* up!?!
Be a man, spit it out, if you think I've done something, let's get your detailed account?

Show some proof, that I ever broke a law or ever intended to...

Put up, or shut up.

The truth is, I didn't do the things you (half assed) accuse me of... and there are at least two other participants in this thread that can (AND SHOULD) back me up on that.
C'mon guys, I was stand up, that day in camp, don't leave me hanging while this *censored* assaults my character!?!

I have been invited, to the WPHE, for years, but I choose not to attend.
I never claimed to be great, and that kind of self promotion isn't my style.

Krusty

KillBilly · « **Reply #48 on:** August 10, 2008, 01:08:45 PM »

What are you ranting about.... you make loud and bold statements about your calling and call making skills. I just wanted a copy of the one that would make an animal think you were sitting on a bait. I made no accusations whatsoever. You need to take your meds buddy, you are delusional. The comical part is that you keep implicating yourself in all kind of activities. I have never used your name in an accusation. If I had, it would been something factual. I will say this about you though. You definately validate the act of some animals eating their young.

The Krusty Wave

News:

Advertisement

Author Topic: Predator Hunting from a ground blind (Read 14023 times)

Advertisement

Quick Links

Recent Topics