Predator Hunting from a ground blind

[bearmanric]

 Krusty doe's  know his stuff. alot of research.i've never seen anyone so serios on the sound's of hand call's. that's a good thing. i have a fancy Foxpro but i bet if all my tape's and Johnny stewart 612 wasnt stolen it would call as good. Rick

[tlbradford]

Guess I will find out this weekend.............

Lots of coyotes on our property in Colville, but I am not making that drive this weekend.  Had them calling back and forth last week, but I could not call them in with just rabbit distress.

Looking more for bears this weekend, but if my 300 gets to bark at a coyote, I will not pass up the chance.

I appreciate all of the help and feedback thus far.  I will keep you posted.

Dekuma, I would set up closer to the location that you heard the howling your next time out.  There may be a physical barrier or you are out of the coyotes range that may make them not want to respond.

Krusty, while I agree with most of what you have written I do find a couple of things contradictory to each other.

You wrote of "not stacking the deck against yourself", but then state that sound quality has no bearing.  I have a question.  1) How can you say that sound quality is not a factor in calling coyotes?  To me this would be an extremely difficult theory to test.  How do you know that you might not call more coyotes with better sound quality, all other factors being equal?  Without knowing this for certain, aren't you stacking the deck against you by not using the highest quality sound?

I would also say that Krusty's explanation of the schools of thought on continuous versus sporadic calling, and his opinion that continuous calling is best, is applicable to ecallers, but in my experience it does not apply to hand calls for the following reasons:

1) When blowing hand calls you will usually be moving a little bit.  If you are continuously calling you are lending yourself to being seen easier by the incoming coyote.
2) As you are blowing on a call your vision is impaired, by pausing in between sequences, it allows you to scan the country to see if something is coming in.
3) Don't underestimate the power of hearing an approaching coyote that is backdooring you.  If you are calling, you are not able to hear footsteps on crunchy snow.

There are other reasons, but they almost all come back to being more easily spotted when the sound is emanating from your location.

[Krusty]

Willie,

Gee, a "prime" August coyote... good for you? 

TLB,

"Only the yippers know, and they ain't saying"... in hunting, there is no "proof".
I'm not offering my opinion, as fact, I'm just offering it.

Yeah, I think one should not stack the deck against themselves, by clomping around, choosing poor stands, calling too loud, moving too much, calling where there aren't enough coyotes, using the wrong firearm, etc.

Way back in the 1950's the Burnham Bros came out with this thing that played super scratchy old 45rpm records... and this was considered a huge advantage...

Now, some 50 years later, you are trying to tell me that same machine would be a detriment?

I'm not buying it.

Here's how I tested my theory... I took my crappy sounding little e-caller, and called coyotes with it, and bobcats, and crows, and turkeys, and deer and elk....
You can't mess with results.

Some, is enough, I feel fortunate that my success ratio has changed for the better, and I absolutely know my e-caller, and using it the way I have been, has helped to bring that positive change about.

Because it isn't where I am, because it doesn't move to call, and because it can make sounds for a longer period of time than I care to, I feel the benefits of the e-caller, even one with some hiss, far far outweigh the negatives of this supposed "poor sound quality", or of not having one at all.

Just like Rick says, his old cassette player, would and did work just fine...
These "tools", if used properly, can add to one's success rate, I'm living proof of that.

Only a highly educated coyote, would recognize poor sound quality as a threat...
Calling coyotes, that are smarter than you, is the best way to set yourself up to fail.
Stacked deck or not, never, let the coyotes deal.

Krusty

[DeKuma]

I must say, that when I started this thread, I never imagined the wealth of information I would recieve!
All of your knowledge is staggering and I greatly appreciate your guidance!

So, given the multiple schools of thought on calling, I am a little confused now.

Since I have built an E-Caller, should I use a lower volume and also use a hand call?  I have watched several videos that switch to a squeeker when the coyote is coming in.  Is this the best idea?  Since my caller is not truly remote, as I either place it away from me and let it just run through the sequences, or I place it withing 75 feet of me ( the amount of cord I have) and manipulate the iPod to pause or change sounds, should I also use a squeek or hand call sporadically?

Any volunteers to take me out and show me the ropes?

Thank you all again for sharing your vast knowledge on the suject.  Have not even gotten a dog yet and all ready I am addicted to the whole scene!

[tlbradford]

Some, is enough, I feel fortunate that my success ratio has changed for the better, and I absolutely know my e-caller, and using it the way I have been, has helped to bring that positive change about.

That sounds like you have confidence in your call, but I was pretty sure you told Carl that having confidence didn't make a difference.    
 
I do want to offer up one more thing to think about.  50 years ago there was a small group of predator callers.  With the proliferation of predator forums, videos, tv shows, calls, magazines, etc. it is a growing sport.  As more and more people take to the field, the possibility of finding uneducated coyotes, besides yoy, is getting tougher.  I sit in the same spots in the same areas year after year and I am constantly calling to coyotes that I myself have educated.  I want to be able to fool those coyotes as much as possible by doing everything I can.  You should take advantage of any edge you can gain in the calling business.  Will antiquated equipment still work?  Yes.  Will the lip squeek be one of the most effective calls you can use until the end of time?  Yes.  Will certain equipment, new technology, and using it in unique ways give you a greater advantage than doing the same things over and over again, probably.

DeKuma, I would place it away from you, and let your sounds loop at as much volume as possible without getting much distortion from your speaker.  Some folks turn off the caller to get coyotes to stop prior to pulling the trigger.  I would not worry about mixing in a hand call because you would be eliminating all the advantages of using an ecaller. 

[Bofire]

Every situation is different, just like tossing a fly to a good hole. Some places need load calling, some lower. It takes a lot of experience.

I think in general most folks call too loud and dont scout enough.
Don't call places that look like yote country, call places yotes live. I like to combine electronic and mouth. I have had bad luck with shutting the sound totally off. but I do like to turn it down if "if" I can see the yote a long range. I use lip squeaks alot.

You can always call quiet then get louder, not the other way. What ever you do dont get excited when you see one coming     hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!

Do sneak in, not just mosey and GET OFF THE ROAD! Set you sound source where you can see it. Use binoculars. shooting sticks
Carl

[saylean]

Getting off the road is always good advice...

but last year I called in a yote and bobcat (about 10 minutes apart) 20ft off the road as I was sitting ontop of a log jam....(of course it was way up a loggin road..but still)

which reverts back to the other advice...call where they live...and scout.

I actually had no idea there was a bobcat in the area (I was calling for bears), but I walked up the road later that month and the bobcat I passed on (not in season) was leaving its crap on a rock in the center of the road for I dont know how long, judging from the piles.

Good luck and fun reading all the advice on here. I probably need to do more scouting...I often times just try to find a spot and  call into brush, trees, etc...it reminds me of fishing..ya never know what might come.

[Krusty]

DeKuma,

Again, we're looking at a vast array of right answers.

The general way of using an e-caller goes like this;
Start calling at a low volume, in case somebody is close by... you don't want to blast them out.
After a time (how long? again many right answers, all different), the volume is cranked up, to "reach out" for a while, then faded back down.
And as you say if a coyote is seen squeakers or squeaking, is used to coax them to you.
A couple cycles of this, and you get up and go.

The "new way" is to have your e-caller playing softly, and continuously, and from a second location downwind of the speaker (where you are),  at wider intervals, you "reach out" with a hand call or howler.
When the predator is farther away, you don't have to worry about being seen, and that hand calling can bring them into range of hearing the e-caller.
Then that e-caller becomes the focus of their attention, not you, and brings them to it on a string.
By setting up so the speaker is directly upwind, you keep the area you foul with your scent, narrower, and take advantage of the coyotes tendency to circle downwind (which the continuous e-calling is supposed to prevent).
By letting the e-caller in effect be the coaxer, and not focusing that "final approach attention" on you, giving yourself up with a squeak, you give yourself a chance to make a shot, un-noticed.

Think about this, I was parked at a spot just next to I-90, it was about 7:30 am, so there was some traffic... I spotted a coyote hunting his way along the hill, on the far side of the freeway... some 700 yards away, just for giggles, I gave him a squeak.
He bolted up, and looked my way!

I was astonished, but I kept squeaking, and he kept coming, hard, as he got to the livestock tunnel, I decided to make a break for my rifle, since I wouldn't be shooting over the road if he made it to my side... that's when he busted me, the ice on my door cracked as I jumped out, and he retreated... head down, flat topped, and haulin' butt, over the ridge!

So, if you can just barely hear your e-caller, over open ground, it might call a coyote from six or seven hundred yards!

And it's well documented, that a hand call can reach a mile or more, over that same open ground, so you have to take into account that you can call a series, and it might take a coyote on a trot five minutes or so to close that mile... and halfway in, at 2 1/2 minutes, he'll pick up the sound of your coaxing e-caller.

I never touched on my thoughts on your daughter's predicament...
How old is she?
One of the best ways to hide someone who moves, is behind someone who doesn't.

I know this seems simplistic, but look at filmography in hunting...
They often put the camera guy in the back, looking over the shoulder or over the top of the hunter.

You might try a bucket seat, you can carry your small stuff in it, and she can sit on it behind you, with just her face peeking over.
And with her back to the tree (or whatever cover your using) and you in front, she shouldn't have any security issues.
Top it off with the fact that it puts her far behind the firing line, and out of the muzzle blast zone, so the shooting part (should you get to that point) won't be dangerous or bothersome.

I'd be glad to take you out, let me know when?

Krusty

P.S. TLB, I don't absolutely know, in a confidence sense, but I know, in a scientific sense... from keeping a journal and tracking the actual results.
Coyotes numbers called, since I changed the way I use my own e-caller, has improved, on both sides of the hill.
I don't just believe it's a positive change, I have the stats to back it up.
Unlike "mojo" my confidence is based on empirical evidence.

[billythekidrock]

You wrote of "not stacking the deck against yourself", but then state that sound quality has no bearing.  I have a question.  1) How can you say that sound quality is not a factor in calling coyotes?  To me this would be an extremely difficult theory to test.  How do you know that you might not call more coyotes with better sound quality, all other factors being equal?  Without knowing this for certain, aren't you stacking the deck against you by not using the highest quality sound?

I agree. There is a lot of good advice on this thread, but as usual there are also alot of holes in some theories.
One good reason for using sounds with the best quality is hunter confidence. If you are happy and confident you will be more attentive to the task at hand.

Willie,

Gee, a "prime" August coyote... good for you? 

Krusty,
Ooohh. "Nice slam...good for you!"

[Krusty]

Willie,

Hunter confidence, has no bearing on what a coyote actually will do... whether he charges, or sneaks, or doesn't respond at all.

I have hunted without confidence, but I never let my discouragement take my head out of the game, hunting, or using a firearm at all, requires it.

Likewise, while fully content, and attentitive, I have been completely surprised, while on stand.
The time the pup coyote trotted through, before we even made a sound fully threw my mind for a loop... I thought "hey who's german shepard puppy is that?"

Okay, now we have established that many people feel that old cassette callers and the like, "poor sounding" callers, will still work.

The only reason new guys like DeKuma would lack confidence in these "poor" sounds... is guys like you blowing smoke up their ass.

I am trying to instill that confidence in them.

Guys, the sound you make is a tiny part of why you will succeed or fail.
Hunting anything, that you call, ducks, elk, or coyotes, takes a lot more than "a sound".
Very few of us, hit the ground running, in any pursuit.
But through effort and experience, listening and learning, and, time and miles, we gain enough skill... not to just succeed, but to be successful.

"If you sit with your back against some cover, and make a sound like something that's dying, and, if there's predators around to hear it... they will come."

Rich Cronk, one of the greatest callers, and call makers, ever.

Take confidence from his words, be brave, get off the internet and actually go out and do it, that's the only way you'll get better at it.

And Willie, my question wasn't a slam, I was just wondering what your self stroking had to do with the topic at hand.
Someone paid you a compliment, and you answered it without a thank you... but a claim of "you got one", in August, probably while bear hunting, an "incidental" if you will... like that's a huge feat, and proof of your own "quality sounds" theory.

Even a blind sow, finds a few acorns.

I have a challenge I have offered for years;

If you can come to my county, and over three consecutive days (no night hunting), manage to call and kill three coyotes... I'll eat the third one!

If your such a bad ass, c'mon up, I got my knife and fork at the ready.

Krusty

[billythekidrock]

OOoooo

[Krusty]

Willie,

That attempt at a burn "I bet you haven't killed three coyotes in a season" only further illustrates my point, of how hard this game is.

I'm a fairly experienced caller/hunter, quite good at making sounds with a call, and you're right two (dead and recovered) in a single season is my record.
But KIA stats belie the actual increase in my success ratio, or the numbers called in a single season...
My brother missed three in a weekend, last year, and I missed as many the week of late buck season... I missed one, THREE TIMES! 

We are talking about CALLING them here, not killing them.

Krusty

[bearmanric]

you live in King county. can you hunt there. Rick

[billythekidrock]

you live in King county. can you hunt there. Rick

I don't know if you can hunt there but ther a more yotes in King County then most of the westside.

[KillBilly]

Krusty, can you give/sell me a copy of your "I'm sitting on a bait" call? Heard it works great for you.