Review: Berger verses Barnes Bullets

[JimmyHoffa]

I missed that BP.  Dang, I wouldn't have expected that performance at 2.6K, think I'll stick with Barnes and Hornady.

[JohnVH]

yep, thats one of the reasons I dont use bergers, and always wondered why anyone else did... Play with the barnes loading and they will shoot good. Out of our 7mags the barnes bullets touch holes at 100yds

[BULLBLASTER]

Both Barnes and Berger work... just different philosophy with each. Betters are meant to dump all of their energy into the target and cause massive trauma. Barnes are designed to expand and keep going... and copper foul the hell out of the barrel.I killed a muley and an elk last year with Berger bullets inside 100 yards. Bullet in muley was under the skin on the other side and the lungs were litterally shredded. The elk I shot low and broke the close shoulder and blew out the brisket. Second shot spiked it. When I walked up to it I could see the heart pumping through the opening in the brisket... it would have killed it just fine without the spine shot which blew 3 vertibrae to pieces... I have had only great experience.with Bergers.

[BULLBLASTER]

Berger's will expand reliably to a much power velocity than Barnes also.. making them better for long range. Both work well just 2 opposite theories on desired performance.

[MDGrand]

I load basically Barnes and Berger..

BOTH employ the opposite of what people consider a GOOD hunting bullet.

Berger... I load the 185s in my 300 WSM and the 210s in my 300RUM. Here is my take...
The Berger's philosophy is to NOT have an exit wound. That is NOT what they are for. Similar to a Ballistic tip, they shed all their weight or "dump" all their energy IN the animal. What makes them different from a Ballistic tip.. is their jacket and shape.. they use a J4 Jacket and use the Secant Ogive.. this allows them to go in 3-4 inches in then they blow up like a hand grenade.

MY EXPERIENCE... I have dropped a nice bull and few deer with them.. DRT.. Dead right there.. basically a TON of mushed up organs when the shot was put behind the shoulder.

MY OPINION... GREAT bullet.. Does what its supposed too.. I would not use on a Moose or a Brown Bear as I want pass through performance on those with REALLY heavy bone and hide.. but, they are super accurate and pretty much leave the animal almost exactly where it got hit. Can be finicky for seating depth and because of the Secant Ogive, they wont shoot in all guns, but other that that because of the BC.. they maintain a LOT of energy WAY WAY out there.

Barnes...

I load the 180s in my 300 WSM and 200s in my 300 RUM.. Here is my take... AWESOME bullet... Usually Barnes will be more accurate with less fussing with seating depth, powders etc (at least in my guns).. The Barnes philisophy is obviously Pass Through Performance.. a hole in one side almost guaranteed hole out the other with zero chance of recovering the bullet. Great philosophy.. works pretty well.

MY EXPERIENCE... Dropped my best Muley with a 180 Barnes TSX out of my 300 WSM.. dropped right there.. but I also hit it nicely right behind the shoulder.. did not go anywhere. Also made a couple error shots with them.. hit an animal in the guts a few times.. NOT proud of it.. but it happens.. I lost BOTH animals.

MY OPINION... GREAT bullet.. if properly placed, will drop anything and do its job. HORRIBLE copper fouling though. After trying out 20 rounds for accuracy, the barrel needs a LOT of scrubbing and Butches Bore shine! BUT, not finicky when it comes to reloading.. most rifles like them, until the barrel becomes lined with copper.

Bottom line...

I judge a bullet and caliber by what it can do when an imperfect shot is made... The reason I like magnum calibers as well as a round like a Berger, Accubond over a Barnes in some cases is due to the unloading of energy and shredding of more tissue done with these types of bullets. My humble opinon is that with an imperfect shot, the animal is less likely to keep running with a Berger or Accubond than a Barnes which for example if gut shot will look like a pencil went through it.

OH.. and for super long distance..600 + yards.. The Barnes looses a ton of energy.

 

[whacker1]

Agree with what most have said.  Two different philosophies exist with variations of those two philosophies.

Bullet retains weight and hopefully passes through
bonded bullets
Solid Coppers
etc.

Pros
better blood trail due to entrance and exit
More likely to go through bone

Cons
May pass through without causing enough damage if off target from  vitals

Or Bullets designed to fragment and cause massive Trauma

pros
some provide more accurate flight
DRT - Dead Right there is goal due to massive Trauma

cons
less significant blood trail due to a lack of exit wound

I am sure that many of you can find other pros and cons, but these are the pros & cons I debate on my .300 RUM, which I am currently shooting 168 bergers.  I shoot them, because I have the best groups out of everything I have shot so far.  I couldn't get any of the following to group for me nearly as well as the berger's.
Barnes 165 - 180
Accubonds 165-180
E-tip 165 - 180

I believe that my gun will perform better with shooting heavier bullets into the 200 grains and upward, based on the twist, but I haven't been willing to go to a muzzle brake yet. 

I would say (My Opinion) that with the philosophy of shooting a bullet that is designed to Fragment or partially fragment that you are best served with the heaviest bullet you can group and shoot to ensure that you can break bone in addition to causing carnage.  I have seen a few .30 caliber 150 grain Nosler Partition found in the front shoulder of Elk, because they never penetrate the shoulder.   My 168 Bergers need to shoot more animals to confirm the lethality of them as I have only shot 1 animal with them so far, and it was short range (40 yard)  neck shot on a white tail. 

My .270 - I shoot 140 grain Nosler Accubonds, because that is what grouped the best so far.  So I play both sides of the argument.

[MichaelJ]

Some people in this thread are right on...

Correct me if I'm wrong but those who don't like the bergers are those whom haven't used them correct?

My rifle killed 2 deer this last season with the 168 Berger VLD's at 2950 fps...  MASSIVE trauma and both dropped on impact.  The one broadside shot at 162 yds was a heart shot and it looked like somebody turned on a fire hose of blood on the backside (I watch through the spotter).  Here's a picture of the heart...



The other buck we killed was at 246 yds quartering to us.  Shot just infront of nearside shoulder, into the boiler room with again massive trauma, and still had enough energy to break the offside shoulder and lodged the copper jacket just under the skin.  This was a BIG bodied buck too...



I would feel 100% confident using these bullets on everything up to elk.  Moose or bear I imagine I'd want something like a barnes with more penetrating power unless I was shooting the 210's at 3200 fps+...

Mike

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Both bullets performed as they were designed. It really comes down to personal preference and philosophies.

[Buckmark]

Ford....

[MichaelJ]

Ford....

Exactly... lol Just don't believe the uneducated opinions which is tough on the net sometimes.  But to say the Berger is not a hunting bullet or isn't a performer is not true.

Mike

[bobcat]

Obviously the Berger will work for hunting, it's just not what I want in a hunting bullet. The Bergers are made for shooting long range and that's where they shine. But for me, I want a bullet that does good up close. I don't want to spot an elk at 100 yards and then have to turn around and walk a half a mile so I can get a longer shot for which the Berger will work. I would definitely think about using the Bergers for antelope hunting and some mule deer hunting if it were in the type of terrain where shots over 1/4 mile are the norm. But normally where I hunt, a 300 yard shot is a long shot. For that all I need is a Barnes, or an Accubond.

[kentrek]

Obviously the Berger will work for hunting, it's just not what I want in a hunting bullet. The Bergers are made for shooting long range and that's where they shine. But for me, I want a bullet that does good up close. I don't want to spot an elk at 100 yards and then have to turn around and walk a half a mile so I can get a longer shot for which the Berger will work. I would definitely think about using the Bergers for antelope hunting and some mule deer hunting if it were in the type of terrain where shots over 1/4 mile are the norm. But normally where I hunt, a 300 yard shot is a long shot. For that all I need is a Barnes, or an Accubond.

that pic i i posted was a 50 yard shot..there was alil bloodshot going on but it was mostly rib meat any how.the berger is def a long range performaer but i wouldnt discount it as a all around performing bullet,i would say that more difinitively but i need to test em out more !

[MichaelJ]

Obviously the Berger will work for hunting, it's just not what I want in a hunting bullet. The Bergers are made for shooting long range and that's where they shine. But for me, I want a bullet that does good up close. I don't want to spot an elk at 100 yards and then have to turn around and walk a half a mile so I can get a longer shot for which the Berger will work. I would definitely think about using the Bergers for antelope hunting and some mule deer hunting if it were in the type of terrain where shots over 1/4 mile are the norm. But normally where I hunt, a 300 yard shot is a long shot. For that all I need is a Barnes, or an Accubond.

The berger is designed to be a high BC hunting bullet.  Thats why Berger makes TARGET vld's as well as HUNTING vld's.  Its not like they perform better at distance then they do up close.  They just outperform other bullets at distance.  I understand some people not wanting to use them because it goes against their train of thought and that is perfectly fine, do what you will.  Don't be mistaken however thinking this is a bullet made for punching paper that just works for hunting, that would be more along the lines of the Hornady Amax.

Mike

[BULLBLASTER]

Here is a picture of a recovered accubond and a recovered Berger. The Berger came from my muley last year and performed very well at under 100 yards with a 2900 fps muzzle velocity. The accubond came out of my 2010 bull elk shot at 430 yards.

[MtnMuley]

I use Bergers and have have great luck with them at the range and hunting.  Especially at long distances.  I have no problem, and like the way the Barnes preform, but I always have trouble getting them to group consistantly at 300+ yards out of my guns.