Review: Berger verses Barnes Bullets

[Curly]

I can't see a benefit to using Bergers over Barnes for shots that are 300 yards or less.  Where the Bergers shine is long range because of the high BC and ability to open up at low velocities.  Barnes benefit from high velocity to open up, and their BC's aren't as high, so they are not the best choice for the very long range stuff.  I get 3/4" groups from 168gr TSX at 200 yards, so accuracy is good for me with the TSX...........and the bullet turns the internal organs to jello when it blows thru.  You can punch thru shoulders, chest bone, whatever with the Barnes..........

I will have to give Bergers a try though.  Would like to see how they group.

[bearpaw]

great conversation... 

[sirmissalot]

I've experienced the same thing as Dale. If I were a "longrange hunter" I'd probably lean towards a Berger, because that is where they shine. But, to me 300 yards is a fairly long shot, 500 yards is my absolute max range and thats with perfect conditions, although I would much prefer no longer than 400. Many of my shots are 2-300 yards and I like to aim for the shoulder, whether its deer or bear, even elk if I happen to be rifle hunting them, and that is not a shot I would recomend for a Berger based on my personal experience with that bullet.

[MichaelJ]

I've experienced the same thing as Dale. If I were a "longrange hunter" I'd probably lean towards a Berger, because that is where they shine. But, to me 300 yards is a fairly long shot, 500 yards is my absolute max range and thats with perfect conditions, although I would much prefer no longer than 400. Many of my shots are 2-300 yards and I like to aim for the shoulder, whether its deer or bear, even elk if I happen to be rifle hunting them, and that is not a shot I would recomend for a Berger based on my personal experience with that bullet.

Just curious and I mean this with all sincerity, but what is your personal experience with that bullet?

Mike

[sirmissalot]

Just curious and I mean this with all sincerity, but what is your personal experience with that bullet?

Mike

Specifically the 30 cal 190 grain "hunting" VLD. I have some loaded for a 300WSM now, and have loaded them for a 300 weatherby as well as a 30-378. They are good bullets, but I would put them in a similar category as a nosler ballistic tip as far as weight retention and terminal performance. Personally I have seen this particular bullet (the Berger 30 cal 190 grain) take down animals as small as antelope, to as big as elk and even a couple black bear. They killed them, but I just wasn't impressed with the penetration on any of these animals, but like I said I like to shoot for the shoulder, its just my opinion that this bullet doesn't have the penetration I would prefer. I have told a story on here before of a cow we killed last year with a tag for the margaret, it was about a 80 yard shot just below the head, with a 30-378 and a 190 grain bullet I would have suspected the bullet would have exited but it didn't. Obviously she was DRT but I just wasn't impressed with that bullet, I know how big a bull elks shoulder is and I wouldn't be confident with a quartering-to shot with that particular bullet. 

[predatorpro]

Barns are one of the best hunting bullets made today, I'm waiting for pictures and story in the bear section please....

i used barnes once for mule deer...will never put another barnes bullet in any of my guns....through alot of trial and error all i use now is bergers for big game, and nosler and sierra for small game...but thats just me

[coachcw]

30-378 with barnes x 300 yard pass throughs with min damage but got it done also at 435 yards drt high shoulder kill. I think I like a bullet that dosn't pass through and looses all energy in the animal , for instance the throphy boned bear claw outta a lil .260 flat puts the hurting on mule deer aswell as the big magnum. I'm gonna load up 140 vlds in my 6.5 x 284 . I figure if the bullet hits the mark it will getter done just fine for me.

[Killmore]

If a trophy of a life time is walking straight away I wouldn't be afraid to use the barns on that shot assuming you have enough horsepower. I wouldn't do that with any other bullet.

[MtnMuley]

If a trophy of a life time is walking straight away I wouldn't be afraid to use the barns on that shot assuming you have enough horsepower. I wouldn't do that with any other bullet.

I wouldn't hesiate for a second with a Scirocco Bonded,  Accubond, or Interbond as well.  Actually, I did it with a Berger 210 last year.

[high country]

I use the berger/smk/scenar in my precision rifles because they simply are more accurate than any other bullets, and impact velocities are typically not so high as to cause instant upset and allow penetration. I use the Barnes in rifles that tend to "overdrive" standard cup and core bullets......like the ultras and especially the .257roy. In chamberings of modest velocity, I find good ol' cup and core bullets to bring the best of both worlds. For example, the 270win has long been a standard in longish range hunting. Every .277 bullet made up to about 2005 was designed to operate at the 3000ish muzzle velocity. I do not use a Barnes in a 270 because I feel they may actually limit the round. In 40ish bulls/bucks/bears I feel very confident in my theories.

A precision rifle, to me does not come into play till the average shot shall be 400 plus yards. To me, a Barnes will work fine...if it hits and only downside is reduced expansion which could lead to more tracking......BUT, if you ever take an animal across a 700yd canyon you will appreciate the on game performance of the berger/smk/scenar as the critters tend to bang flop with well placed shots, and finding the impact site is tough enough without adding the tracking job.

I have a friend who poked a bull with a 210 berger and when the bullet hit the humerous, it either blew up or changed directions. Hard to say if a Barnes would have done the same. I personally pushed this 142smk through both shoulders of a bull at what I consider long range. You can see where it entered the inside scapula and penetrated the width of the bull, breaking the off side shoulder. The bull took not a step and never even twitched. I realize that the smk is not a berger, but if you cut the berger/smk/scenar in half.....you will see they are essentially identical.

 

 

   

[buckfvr]

So, since the SMK is not intended as a hunting bullet, would you also suggest this " Berger " type of performance may also be possible from say, the Hornady A-Max

[high country]

So, since the SMK is not intended as a hunting bullet, would you also suggest this " Berger " type of performance may also be possible from say, the Hornady A-Max

I am pretty sure biggerhammer can answer that one with real world results, I cannot say from experience. I have never spent any time on the amax.....sorry, although I would expect similar results.

[MichaelJ]

So, since the SMK is not intended as a hunting bullet, would you also suggest this " Berger " type of performance may also be possible from say, the Hornady A-Max

Not true however I could see why you would think that.  I was fortunate enough to take a buck at 666 yds two seasons ago with a 162 amax.  These bullets do not get the penetration before grenading like the Berger does. I wouldn't trust them to a shoulder shot on anything bigger than a deer.  They do cause massive damage though!  But will open up on contact with a rib or hard medium unlike the Berger...  this year we killed a wolf with an amax quartering away. It hit a rib and tore a hole the size of a football along the side.

Mike

[bearpaw]

Yesterday I saw a bear hit by an A-Max out of a 300 WinMag at about 20 yards after we had stalked it for 150 yards or so, the bear jumped straight into the air probably higher than I can jump, fell over backwards, and only made it a few feet. The bullet took out several ribs and appeared to have exploded. The bear was stone cold DOA by the time we got to it.

The shot angle wasn't ideal as the bear was facing sharply away, I figured we were so close it didn't matter, turns out it didn't. 

Due to the angle and the type of hit, I cannot make much comment about the bullet performance other than it killed the bear very quickly.

I will note that this bear had been shot before. On the opposing side I found bullet fragments just inside the skin, the skin and shoulder had a hole that had grissled in, but was definitely visible. It appeared to me that the bear was hit in the shoulder by a bullet that blew up and did not penetrate into the vitals to kill the bear. That was definitely a plus for us because this was a beautiful bear that put a smile on our faces.

It's not my story to tell so I will leave it at that for now.

[wsmnut]

I think we are really fortunate to be hunting and shooting and reloading in an age where we all have a lot of great choices.  We can tailor the bullets for the rifle, the game and the likely range.  For my family shooting beyond 400 yards just isn't likely.  No practice at anything beyond that.  And "the hunt is the thing".
     All that having been said, for the rifles I load for, the Barnes have been providing great accuracy and dependability.  In the past three years 5 deer and 1 elk.  All one shot.  One deer traveled about 10 feet.  Not sure how given the damage inside.
My wife's 270 win, with a 130 TSX shoots MOA.  Here is before and after traveling through the boiler room of a large bull elk.  Recovered bullet weighs 129.3 gr.
Pic #2 is the elk.  One shot angled slightly aft through the boiler room.  Found bullet just inside the skin on the far side.  It stopped just after breaking a rib.  Utter ruin in it's wake.  Bull took one step and folded.  130 'ish yards.

Photo #3 is a post mortem shot of another 130 gr. TSX.  Wife and her first deer.  Trotting up hill at 150 yards.  One shot. One step and crashed so hard he ruined the euro mount.  Nose all fragmented.  Wish I could shoot like her!
The accuracy and performance of these bullets gives the hunter a lot of confidence. 
wsmnut