paper tuning bowtech insanity

[pullnpray]

Hey everyone im new on thia forum, drew a bull tag this year and my "old" bow needed a new string and some maintenance so i decided to purchase a new bow this year and hand down my old bow to my dad.

Bow specs
Bowtech insanity black ops
29" draw 71.3lb
Easton axis 340 29"
100gr.
Rip cord drop away
Tied knock and d loop

I have always been able to tune my bows fairly easy this one has me chasing my tail.. when im paper tuning i cant seem to get it to ever punch bullet holes alwayos rips down and to the left.. i think if i move my knock up i can fix the low tare.(cant move rest any further down or it will hit the shelf).. bowtech tell you to twist the cables to ajust the left and right movement so my concern is do i just make my rest sit at center shot and do tuning from that baseline? Also how far are ypu guys knock high about ¹/8" thanks for any input

[hughjorgan]

Try a 300 Easton axis arrow....

[NWWABOWHNTR]

how big is the left tear.  Could just be a small move of the rest or you could have a weak arrow.  Have you shot a bareshaft at 20 yards and see how it groups with your fletched?

[Todd_ID]

That bow shoots WAY too hard for a 340 spine.  OnTarget2 shows with your specs it has a recommended arrow spine of .272".  The Axis 300's might work.  If not, keep the Axis 300's and 1. drop draw weight to 65#, or 2. shorten arrow to 27.5", or 3. shorten your arms.  The 340's are below legal hunting weight at that draw weight anyway (5.87 gr/lb).  The 300's would be 6.36 gr/lb and just legal to hunt with.

From the program:
The 340's are at 311.7 fps and 90 ft-lbs KE and .5789 slug-ft of momentum
The 300's would be 299 fps and 90 ft-lbs KE and .6012 slug-ft of momentum

[salmonslayer]

I would have to agree, sounds like you are under-spined on your arrow.  Centershot first, then yoke tune.  Hope this helps.  Also here is a pretty helpful link on tuning the Destroyer 350, the Insanity should be very similar.  https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-lShbtLs_cQMVNjTUV6dHMzWWc/edit?pli=1#

[RadSav]

Timing could be an issue and that is an easy fix.  Just need a good shop or somebody with an EZ press or similar. 

I agree that the 340 is way too weak for that length and poundage in the Insanity.  Problem with going to the 300 spine is you will be upside down in FOC unless you also step up to a 125 grain head at the same time.

That being said, carbon arrows out of super high performance bows rarely shoot well through paper.  The choices of spine are well separated as compared to aluminum and thus matching spine exactly is often impossible.  The saving grace with carbon is that it doesn't need to be spined perfectly to shoot well.  Graphite arrows recover so quickly that slightly out of spine, out of straight, out of wall uniformity makes much less of a difference in real life performance that it did with aluminum.  Pultruded shafts though dangerous were miraculous at shooting well when everything told you they shouldn't.

Point is...I wouldn't worry too much about getting perfect holes in paper.  How do they shoot broadheads is what I pay more attention to.  Get some Nockturnal lighted nocks and shoot in low light at 30 yards.  Your FOC will be a little out of whack, but you will see the arrow well enough to really get a fine tune.  I guarantee you the bull you kill will have little to say about your arrows not shooting through paper perfectly.

If you do not want to use lighted nocks and your arrows are too fast to see well try tuning using the French Tune method.  Should be an easy Bing Search for instructions.  Or you can PM me with your email address and I will send you a copy.  It is what I use on real stubborn bows with arrow length/poundage issues where getting a perfect spine fit is nearly impossible.

[pullnpray]

thanks everyone for all of the replys

im pretty sure its not a weak arrow i mark all of them and all of them rip the paper the same... about .75" low and to the left maybe an inch.. i have always shot 340 axis im not saying its not an issue, i know easton recomends that arrow for up to a 73lb hard or single cam bow.  the problem i am having is i can tune the left or vertical movement out but not both thats why i was asking if i should move the rest or yoke tune(thanks salmonslayer i knew it was called something lol).. i think if i get to a non vertical tare on the paper i can yolk tun the horizontial out of it.. think is the key word there... as for legal hunting weight my arrows weigh just south of 430(arrow with fletching, BH, wrap, knock and insert)

[colockumelk]

I'm gonna agree with others. You have a weak spine. I would step up to the 300's. Also for some more FOC step up to 125 g heads. This will increase your KE and momentum. That bow you have is lightning fast. A heavier arrow with higher FOC will shoot group and tune better for you.

[colockumelk]

thanks everyone for all of the replys

im pretty sure its not a weak arrow i mark all of them and all of them rip the paper the same... about .75" low and to the left maybe an inch.. i have always shot 340 axis im not saying its not an issue, i know easton recomends that arrow for up to a 73lb hard or single cam bow. 

A weak spine doesn't mean your arrow is weak. It means the spine "flexes" in flight too much due to your magnum bow. A heavier thicker spine that won't flex in flight as much is what you need. This is why all your arrows do this. They have the same spine which for your set up is too weak. Yes I'm sure that 340's worked fine in your old bow. But your new current bow is a super speed bow and hits the arrow with a lot more force. The Easton arrow shaft chart is just a general chart. It's old and outdated. It also doesn't take into account that my 70lb bow shoots 321 IBO and your shoots 355 IBO. It doesn't differentiate between the two. Yes we both pull 70lbs but yours hits a lot harder than mine.

[pullnpray]

thanks everyone for all of the replys

im pretty sure its not a weak arrow i mark all of them and all of them rip the paper the same... about .75" low and to the left maybe an inch.. i have always shot 340 axis im not saying its not an issue, i know easton recomends that arrow for up to a 73lb hard or single cam bow. 

A weak spine doesn't mean your arrow is weak. It means the spine "flexes" in flight too much due to your magnum bow. A heavier thicker spine that won't flex in flight as much is what you need. This is why all your arrows do this. They have the same spine which for your set up is too weak. Yes I'm sure that 340's worked fine in your old bow. But your new current bow is a super speed bow and hits the arrow with a lot more force. The Easton arrow shaft chart is just a general chart. It's old and outdated. It also doesn't take into account that my 70lb bow shoots 321 IBO and your shoots 355 IBO. It doesn't differentiate between the two. Yes we both pull 70lbs but yours hits a lot harder than mine.

the weak spine was meant NWWABOWHNTR comment asking me if it was one of my arrows doing it, sorry for the confusion.. i ordered some 300 bare shafts to shoot and see how my bow likes them might try i different brand also any recommendations?

[D-Rock425]

I would try the 300's if it still does it talk to bowtech and see what they say.  I had the same problem with my hoyt this year didn't matter what arrow I shot.  Finally aftet a few phone calls to hoyt and a few twists here and there we got it shooting a bullet.   But that's a hoyt not a bowtech

[colockumelk]

No worrys pullnpray. Hey sounds like your bow sucks and just won't work. Since I'm such a nice guy I'll trade you straight across for my 2009 Hoyt Alphamax. It's already tuned up ready to go.  I like doing favors like this when I can. 

[NWWABOWHNTR]

thanks everyone for all of the replys

im pretty sure its not a weak arrow i mark all of them and all of them rip the paper the same... about .75" low and to the left maybe an inch.. i have always shot 340 axis im not saying its not an issue, i know easton recomends that arrow for up to a 73lb hard or single cam bow. 

A weak spine doesn't mean your arrow is weak. It means the spine "flexes" in flight too much due to your magnum bow. A heavier thicker spine that won't flex in flight as much is what you need. This is why all your arrows do this. They have the same spine which for your set up is too weak. Yes I'm sure that 340's worked fine in your old bow. But your new current bow is a super speed bow and hits the arrow with a lot more force. The Easton arrow shaft chart is just a general chart. It's old and outdated. It also doesn't take into account that my 70lb bow shoots 321 IBO and your shoots 355 IBO. It doesn't differentiate between the two. Yes we both pull 70lbs but yours hits a lot harder than mine.

the weak spine was meant NWWABOWHNTR comment asking me if it was one of my arrows doing it, sorry for the confusion.. i ordered some 300 bare shafts to shoot and see how my bow likes them might try i different brand also any recommendations?

Didn't mean just one, that the 340's are too weak... sorry for the confusion.

[pullnpray]

Colockumelk i actually bought a alpamax in 2008?(i think it was that year) anyways i couldnt shoot. It worth a damn even tho it was wayyyy beter then my outta date heavy bow that was loud.. might of been a mental thing.

As for arrows i have the 300s coming and called bowtech and the rep said it should shoot the 340s no problem. But anyway i found someo e willing to help me this weekend so ill keep you all posted 

[got2hunt]

I have a invasion and had ther same problem with a bare shaft. But when i paper tuned with fletched arrows it was great. I also tried the 300 and no differance between the two. im shooting the 2012 invasion at 70 28in drawand 125 heads and its awsome, thinking on trying mthe vaps though