Post by: tjgerm on September 15, 2011, 06:59:35 PM
Post by: bigpaw 77 on September 15, 2011, 07:34:34 PM
Post by: Killercolin on September 15, 2011, 07:35:40 PM
I have heard horror stories and only witnessed the sounds of one incident. Heard about 20 gun shots and later (through hearsay) that it was the tribe using AR-15's to harvest an entire herd. But I didnt see it with my own eye, just ears.
Post by: Johnb317 on September 16, 2011, 01:08:04 PM
Somehow AK 47's don't seem to be historical tools.
sigh
Post by: Houndhunter on September 16, 2011, 01:32:12 PM
Post by: runamuk on September 16, 2011, 01:40:20 PM
Like others say, they dont leave there rig so they dont effect my hunts other than the fact that they kill a $hit ton of elk. I know of three Indians that actually get out and hunt ethically, most *censored* won't track what they shoot at. Its disgusting some of the crap they pull, but not to much we can do about it
I think video cameras and youtube are a good starting point :dunno:
Post by: cjensen on September 16, 2011, 02:22:42 PM
Post by: coachcw on September 16, 2011, 04:04:47 PM
Post by: Mackerson on September 16, 2011, 04:54:28 PM
Post by: YoterHunter on September 16, 2011, 05:43:53 PM
Post by: bigtex on September 16, 2011, 06:30:03 PM
i have witnessed it a couple time in green water years ago. six trible members killed 17 elk . only took what they wanted. and left the rest to rot. i dont get to pissed at them like i use to .i grt pissed at our goverment for letting them get away with it.hunting and netting. :twocents:
The Greenwater/White River area has kind of been known as being the first and worst killing area for tribal elk. Use to be one of the most populated units in the state for elk, now it is a special permit area only.
Post by: 50CalJim on September 16, 2011, 09:07:48 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 17, 2011, 05:20:00 AM
Post by: Sugwat on September 19, 2011, 06:48:09 AM
I hunt the OP... I don't know how many times Iv'e seen non-triabl bow hunters stalking the elk with a bow in one hand and a rifle in the other... goes both ways guys...
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on September 19, 2011, 06:54:07 AM
Quote
I don't know how many times Iv'e seen non-triabl bow hunters stalking the elk with a bow in one hand and a rifle in the other:yike:
kinda makes shooting either difficult, doesn't it ?
Post by: lokidog on September 19, 2011, 08:09:17 AM
.... Shooting an elk with a rifle out their window when the archery guys are working their butt off beatin the brush.....
They should have to use the same weapon as the general season that is open in that area simply as a SAFETY issue. I kind of feel the same way for bear hunters as well as I have been scoped a few times by bear hunters while archery hunting.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 19, 2011, 08:14:28 AM
Post by: hogsniper on September 19, 2011, 08:21:52 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 19, 2011, 08:51:52 AM
Quote
They should have to use the same weapon as the general season that is open in that area simply as a SAFETY issue. I kind of feel the same way for bear hunters as well as I have been scoped a few times by bear hunters while archery hunting.
:bdid:
Why? Why would you say that? That's like saying there should not be a modern firearm season for anything, anywhere, anytime.
There are always other people in the outdoors besides us hunters.
So how are all these other people safe, if there are people hunting with rifles in the same general area?
Your suggestion is exactly what the WDFW did with the cougar seasons, which I thought was a very unneeded restriction which greatly reduces our opportunity to successfully hunt cougars. It would be terrible if they decided to to the same thing with the bear seasons. If they did that I really might have to boycott hunting in this state as so many others have suggested doing.
Post by: lokidog on September 19, 2011, 09:16:10 AM
I don't think WDFW did the cougar season thing as a safety issue or they would have included bear hunting since there are a LOT more bear hunters than cougar hunters. But, I am not sure why they actually did this. Somewhat off topic though.
Post by: fair-chase on September 19, 2011, 09:19:27 AM
QuoteThey should have to use the same weapon as the general season that is open in that area simply as a SAFETY issue. I kind of feel the same way for bear hunters as well as I have been scoped a few times by bear hunters while archery hunting.
:bdid:
Why? Why would you say that? That's like saying there should not be a modern firearm season for anything, anywhere, anytime.
There are always other people in the outdoors besides us hunters.
So how are all these other people safe, if there are people hunting with rifles in the same general area?
Your suggestion is exactly what the WDFW did with the cougar seasons, which I thought was a very unneeded restriction which greatly reduces our opportunity to successfully hunt cougars. It would be terrible if they decided to to the same thing with the bear seasons. If they did that I really might have to boycott hunting in this state as so many others have suggested doing.
:yeah: Completly agree and well said Bobcat.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 19, 2011, 02:37:04 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 19, 2011, 02:41:18 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on September 19, 2011, 03:09:22 PM
if they are not "trophy hunting" then why do they need to take a 6x6. why not just a cow or a spike.
:dunno: :dunno: :bash:
That is my biggest gripe! I am fine with them hunting for the meat but why they have to hunt for big bulls.... :dunno:
Post by: liljozie495 on September 19, 2011, 05:10:07 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 19, 2011, 07:44:31 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 19, 2011, 08:02:14 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 19, 2011, 08:29:50 PM
Post by: Sugwat on September 20, 2011, 05:45:50 AM
indians just want all these rights and *censored* to be able to walk all over us, it must be nice to be them, let alone getting monthly checks for living on a tribal area, getting all these special rights from our government... i think we need to cut them off on building there ga DANG casinos and crap. for instance...only reason muckleshoot could afford to purchase land in hancock in white river is because of there stinkin casino...aka us americans need to stop supporting there casino haha.... but its rediculous the *censored* the indians get away with, i wish someday the justice of what they do to the land (aka trash in the woods like beer cans and crap) and the animals they get to "MURDER"comes down on there asses and comes down hard and i hope they lose every right they ever had....
Out of the 27 federally recognized tribes in Washington only 6 of them make enough money off casinos to give anything back to the members. Only three of those tribes get back enough to do anything with it. And you have got to be kidding me. Indians are the only ones to ever litter in the outdoors? You must have never walked through a clearcut after a logging show? All the plastic bottles, paint cans, beer cans, ruined logging gear, hydraulic fluid spilled all over and the bottles left to drain all over the place. You must have never fished along a river that has so many sporties on it they are chitting all over the place and the state has to come in and shut down the tribes shellfish beaches from the fecal chloroform bacteria draining into it from the sporty crap piles into the river. Gimme a break.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 20, 2011, 11:35:43 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on September 20, 2011, 11:39:33 AM
unfortunitely we have bad apples in all walks of life.... So we need to find ways to live together but I am all for equal rights no matter if its indians or what .... we all should have to get a job , buy a license and pay for a car and on and on .....Thats all I want ! :tup:
AMEN!
Post by: Sugwat on September 20, 2011, 11:04:02 PM
unfortunitely we have bad apples in all walks of life.... So we need to find ways to live together but I am all for equal rights no matter if its indians or what .... we all should have to get a job , buy a license and pay for a car and on and on .....Thats all I want ! :tup:
And the vast majority of us do.... just like the vast majority of non-natives do.... and many tribes do charge a fee for hunting licenses... it's just not as much as the corn-holing u guys get from the state....
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 22, 2011, 01:31:02 AM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 22, 2011, 08:09:23 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 22, 2011, 09:20:26 AM
I don't think WDFW did the cougar season thing as a safety issue or they would have included bear hunting since there are a LOT more bear hunters than cougar hunters. But, I am not sure why they actually did this. Somewhat off topic though.
I spoke with the cougar guy about this. He told me point blank that the cougar regulations were changed, while the bear regs were not, because archers complained about rifle usage during archery season and cougar hunting is far less popular than bear hunting. So, they changed the cougar regs to piss off a smaller group of individuals than they would have by changing both cougar and bear seasons. It was a popularity move. They're considering removing the weapons restrictions on cougar. We'll see what happens once the 2012-2014 regs are finished.
Post by: wonder on September 22, 2011, 02:10:38 PM
Post by: sisu on September 22, 2011, 02:48:09 PM
Like others say, they dont leave there rig so they dont effect my hunts other than the fact that they kill a $hit ton of elk. I know of three Indians that actually get out and hunt ethically, most *censored* won't track what they shoot at. Its disgusting some of the crap they pull, but not to much we can do about it
I think video cameras and youtube are a good starting point :dunno:
Careful there Runamuk, we took photos this summer when the "men" crossed into the non-snagging area where we were fishing and got called racists because they were catching THEIR fish. I have no problem snagging if you stay in the snagging zone but once you are out of that then you are a violator not matter if you are green, black, blue, brown, white, transparent etc.
Yep, my wife part Seneca is a racist toward other Indians...that is a real pile of :crap:
Post by: singleshot12 on September 22, 2011, 03:21:41 PM
That shouLd always be the ISSUE not RACE!
Post by: stewcamp on September 22, 2011, 03:43:24 PM
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 24, 2011, 11:22:20 AM
Yakima Tribe likes to shoot the spikes and leave their heads on the fenceposts going into the Colockum. Frickin disguisting humans are the only ones capable of that. Makes me mad they don't appreciate their privlliges.
and your sure its yakama's? so you have proof yakama's drive up there shoot a spikes and leave it on a fence post just to spite you. i head some crazy stories on here but i think this one takes the cake,. :chuckle: and you better watch you u are calling disgusting humans. thats uncalled for. And you arent any better then us for saying that. oh ya and they arnt privlliges there are RIGHTS! so get it right.
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 25, 2011, 10:09:19 AM
Have you actually watched a Yakima tribe member do this with a spike's head? I doubt it. If it was done by a tribal member, do you know that this activity is condoned by all of the Yakima people? No, you don't. Normally, judging entire groups of people according to the actions of individuals is considered racist. That may not be the case here, but it certainly rings so. I know there are white hunters who drive the roads during modern season, drinking beer and shooting from the roads. Do all of us whites do that? No, we don't. Do some anti-hunters label us all by the actions of these few? Yes, they do. Is it right? No, it isn't. It's wrong, flat out wrong.
If you have concerns about the practices and ethics of some Yakima hunters, have you approached the tribal council about your concerns? Maybe if you had, some action would have been taken by them to educate their hunting members about the importance of ethics and decorum. You may even learn that this practice has some ceremonial or traditional significance. I have no idea. But, if you haven't approached them, then you can't know the whole story and the tribal council may be unaware of the bad feelings fostered by this practice among its white neighbors.
Clear, direct, but respectful communication often leads to a resolution of misunderstandings. However, painting entire groups of people with a single brush stroke of condemnation will never, ever help them hear your concerns and objections. It will only serve to close their ears to your voice. So, you must ask yourself, "am I content with my own, simple justifications for these actions of a few, or will I do something to try and resolve the issue?" You have a clear opportunity to affect change in this situation. But, you'd need to change your methods for that to occur. Just my :twocents:.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 25, 2011, 10:29:21 AM
I know there are white hunters who drive the roads during modern season, drinking beer and shooting from the roads. Do all of us whites do that? No, we don't. Do some anti-hunters label us all by the actions of these few? Yes, they do. Is it right? No, it isn't. It's wrong, flat out wrong.Not just modern. I see plenty driving the roads during archery. Cruising the roads slowly and jumping out to shoot what they can. Supposedly too steep to hike, and the does that jump out of the road stop about 20 yards away usually on the uphill side--typically waiting for the little ones to catch up. Back of their trucks usually have some cases of beer.
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 10:48:24 AM
Yakima Tribe likes to shoot the spikes and leave their heads on the fenceposts going into the Colockum. Frickin disguisting humans are the only ones capable of that. Makes me mad they don't appreciate their privlliges.
and your sure its yakama's? so you have proof yakama's drive up there shoot a spikes and leave it on a fence post just to spite you. i head some crazy stories on here but i think this one takes the cake,. :chuckle: and you better watch you u are calling disgusting humans. thats uncalled for. And you arent any better then us for saying that. oh ya and they arnt privlliges there are RIGHTS! so get it right.
RIGHTS that need a total review, because your people are not the same as the people when the treaties were signed. If you had pride you would tell the government to keep their moneys, you can do without because of your pride! But having no pride, that is discusting!
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on September 25, 2011, 11:06:25 AM
and we white guys arnt the same guys that signed and pass documents in the past that gave us our rights too so whats ur point?
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 11:10:32 AM
"RIGHTS that need a total review, because your people are not the same as the people when the treaties were signed"
and we white guys arnt the same guys that signed and pass documents in the past that gave us our rights too so whats ur point?
SO THEY NEED A TOTAL REVIEW, thats my point!
Why should white people pay for our forfathers mistakes. And the same for natives, now
New treaties would work wonders!NO FREE RIDES FOR ANYONE!
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on September 25, 2011, 11:15:26 AM
"RIGHTS that need a total review, because your people are not the same as the people when the treaties were signed"
and we white guys arnt the same guys that signed and pass documents in the past that gave us our rights too so whats ur point?
SO THEY NEED A TOTAL REVIEW, thats my point!
would you want to review the constitution?
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 11:23:54 AM
"RIGHTS that need a total review, because your people are not the same as the people when the treaties were signed"
and we white guys arnt the same guys that signed and pass documents in the past that gave us our rights too so whats ur point?
SO THEY NEED A TOTAL REVIEW, thats my point!
would you want to review the constitution?
ARE you kidding me?? The Constitution gets drove over all the time with new laws, and is changed. Have you heard of the NRA? Notice how we are trying to keep our guns, instead of the government trying to take them? I do believe that is in our constitution that is trying to be changed,,,
Why cant we change native right as well?
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on September 25, 2011, 11:30:52 AM
"RIGHTS that need a total review, because your people are not the same as the people when the treaties were signed"
and we white guys arnt the same guys that signed and pass documents in the past that gave us our rights too so whats ur point?
SO THEY NEED A TOTAL REVIEW, thats my point!
would you want to review the constitution?
ARE you kidding me?? The Constitution gets drove over all the time with new laws, and is changed. Have you heard of the NRA? Notice how we are trying to keep our guns, instead of the government trying to take them? I do believe that is in our constitution that is trying to be changed,,,
Why cant we change native right as well?
ok, i guess i get the point your making. i think they should be reviewed on a case by case basis, and not as a whole, because as stated here before its not all situations that are hurting everyone else, its a select few and a few certain practices that are blanketing a bad image on all tribal hunting
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 12:06:18 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on September 25, 2011, 01:50:35 PM
there will never be equality til we are all governed by the same.
Maybe that is the problem, we are governed by the same, and this time around it's the white sportsman that's getting the shaft.
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 03:02:54 PM
there will never be equality til we are all governed by the same.
Maybe that is the problem, we are governed by the same, and this time around it's the white sportsman that's getting the shaft.
How are natives governed by the state, like white men are? They are under fedral law, not state law like the white man is.
WE ARE NOT GOVERNED BY THE SAME!!
Post by: singleshot12 on September 25, 2011, 03:31:51 PM
Post by: briancorneal on September 25, 2011, 04:08:05 PM
Not all indians are lazy drunks living off a check every month. There are the same percentage of *censored*bags that will never amount to anything in either race: white, black, or purple. If you got a problem with someone, confront them about it. Us as Americans have lost our balls when it comes to changing something because we expect other people to do it. I'm sure that it's been proven that we can't rely on our goverment for much. The minority (not race) has the upper-hand because we can't hurt people's feelings due to PC. Get off your butt and do something about it instead of ranting on a hunting site. This ain't facebook or twitter!
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 04:17:34 PM
If we all had to follow the same rules, and no one had free rides, i think we could live with eachother. We all would be EQUAL, like our Constitution states it should be!
I dont see indian Jo with his tear anymore, they are getting high off the hog,,,literaly!
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2011, 04:59:06 PM
we natives will never have our rights taken away. EVER! no matter how much whining the non natives do. treaties are different then laws. not so easily broken.
Post by: singleshot12 on September 25, 2011, 05:15:28 PM
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 05:42:26 PM
*censored*
we natives will never have our rights taken away. EVER! no matter how much whining the non natives do. treaties are different then laws. not so easily broken.
Not so easily, but can be done! What do the natives have to complain about??
I would like to see what you have to complain about, to see it better from the native side.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 25, 2011, 06:26:53 PM
*censored*
In a nutshell, the Boldt decision was a 1974 decision in Federal Court, where it was found that the various Tribes had a right to a much greater number of fish than they had previously be allotted. They were also granted the right to fish for a longer period of time, and were less constrained by the type of fishing they did. I well remember the initial years after the Boldt Decision, and the tension at places like Neah Bay, Sieku, La Push and the Duwamish. Hard feelings between commercial, sport and tribal fishermen were exacerbated.
Following courts have used this decision to increase the scope, type, season and area that some tribal members are allowed to hunt.
Because it is based on a courts interpretation, no amount of petitions or laws could change this ruling. It is possible that a Federal Court of the District or higher level could reinterpret the Treaties, and the rights given by these treaties. Or the Tribes could be induced to sign new treaties or agreements which would change the present status quo. Both are unlikely, with the latter possibility being very remote. It seems like the ESA would trump the Boldt decision, but at the point that the ESA kicks in, a species population is extremely critical (not to start a ESA argument).
I hope that helps a little. It is a complicated matter to say the least
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2011, 06:30:43 PM
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 06:35:19 PM
longknife. i got nothing to complain about especialy when it comes to hunting and fishing. i hunt in the blues and have been known to help alot of guys out that have been looking for that once in a lifetime archery bull. i dont interfere or get upset if someone is hunting in my spot where i was planning on going. im more than happy to help people get there game to put meat on there table for there family. we all are here for a purpose. and granted some abuse rights no matter what your background. but most of the things i have been reading are extremely exagerated. and unless there is proof its all here say in my book.
Proof of what said hearsay? What was said that is totaly out of line in your eyes?
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 25, 2011, 06:38:41 PM
don't know much about when the law got passed for them to hunt the way they do
The following links may help. Interpretation of the Boldt decision have impacted fishing of both native and hatchery fish, forest practices, water quality and hunting, at the least
http://www.nwhistorycourse.org/ttcourse/Year3/unit2/week7/files/treaty_rights.pdf (http://www.nwhistorycourse.org/ttcourse/Year3/unit2/week7/files/treaty_rights.pdf)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hugo_Boldt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hugo_Boldt)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Washington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Washington)
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2011, 06:48:55 PM
Diffrent rules of governing is my point.
If we all had to follow the same rules, and no one had free rides, i think we could live with eachother. We all would be EQUAL, like our Constitution states it should be!
I dont see indian Jo with his tear anymore, they are getting high off the hog,,,literaly!
btw. show me all the well off native out there. and all the free rides we seem to be getting.
i ll be back. gotta go help my cousin skin out his 7X7 :chuckle:
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2011, 06:50:31 PM
Post by: gonehuntin68 on September 25, 2011, 07:05:19 PM
Post by: seth30 on September 25, 2011, 07:07:21 PM
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 07:08:24 PM
Why should we keep treaties for waste of resourses, when we are the ones said to make sure it is to be maintained? (mostly salmon netting on rivers for just row that i have wittnessed), why would you risk things like that if its so precious to your heritage? Again, im not pointing you out on most of this, you seem like a native with some pride in yourself. Why would natives push til its gone?? to us its a spit in the face, so why not spit back.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 25, 2011, 07:14:02 PM
the treaty needs to go
I would think that both sides would have to agree to terminate the treaty, unlike a treaty between truly sovereign nations as recognized by the UN. The chance of say the Yakima's agreeing to end any treaty obligations of the US is unlikely in the extreme
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 25, 2011, 08:02:55 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2011, 08:10:43 PM
ps gonehuntin68
get an original name. there were 67 in front of you with the same idea. but you still went with it. the treaty will never be abolished! keep cryin when i drive by you on the road with that truck load of elk. i got family to feed
Post by: Little Red Wagon on September 25, 2011, 08:20:10 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2011, 08:25:52 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 25, 2011, 08:27:11 PM
the treaty needs to go
I would think that both sides would have to agree to terminate the treaty, unlike a treaty between truly sovereign nations as recognized by the UN. The chance of say the Yakima's agreeing to end any treaty obligations of the US is unlikely in the extreme
Bigbulls I commend you for taking the step to express your opinions with civility. Over the last year I have debated this issue and regardless of what was presented there was always issues regarding Treaty issues, Sovereignty issues and abuse of rights by tribal members.
Its tribal members like yourself and others that live by our traditions that were taught to us by our elders that get the black eye for those that abuse and tarnish our tribes name because they don't take responsibility for their actions nor do they care sometimes.
Those are the ones I have an issue with not the law abiding citizen.
Knocker, As far as treaty disolution, that will never happen and as far as Tribes that were forcibly made to sign Treaties are REAL Sovereign Nations. And wake up from your dream saying if treaties and tribes were terminated there wouldn't be any problems. Correct, I'm YAKAMA and as long as those of us that care about our people and the future of our people would never let that happen.
Longknife, Tulalips are only a couple thousand members and that's why they get so much. If they were over 10 thousand like us Yakamas then they wouldn't get as much. Tribes don't collect STATE TAX it goes to the STATE, that's why its called STATE TAX. Not all tribal casinos are booming like tulalips or muckleshoots.
If you have any other questions ask away.
Post by: longknife on September 25, 2011, 08:29:03 PM
A treaty is a contract between us and the govermnet. you guys break the treaty you break the contract. that means you give us or 24 million acres back and get of our land. .. so think twice.
For one, learn how to spell OFF! second, You couldnt get all of us OFF our land! History will repeat itself, the goverment will dispose of you, (again) before that ever happens!
Why cant you be a man and say you can pay your own bills, earn your own money, like the rest of the population?
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2011, 08:32:46 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 25, 2011, 08:49:38 PM
Knocker, As far as treaty dissolution, that will never happen and as far as Tribes that were forcibly made to sign Treaties are REAL Sovereign Nations. And wake up from your dream saying if treaties and tribes were terminated there wouldn't be any problems. Correct, I'm YAKAMA and as long as those of us that care about our people and the future of our people would never let that happen.
I hope you believe me when I say that I only entered into this discussion to help gonehunti'68 understand the history and ramifications of the Boldt decision. Simply stated, he seemed to have no clue about Boldt, and I was only trying to help him, although given his strident and extreme post, I don't know if I could be of much help.
Secondly, I would like to apologize for misspelling your Tribal Nations name. I will spell it Yakama from now on.
I do understand that the Yakamas would never agree to rescind Boldt. They would be foolish to, and the problems would not cease.
I struggled with just how to refer to the Yakamas in regard to Nationhood and treaties. What I was trying to say, is that the United States Congress has the power to abrogate treaties with nations such as (say) Venezuela or Sri Lanka. But due to the special nature of the tribal Nations in the Untied States, Congress does not have the authority to abrogate or otherwise end treaty obligations without the courts becoming inextricably involved.
Post by: tjgerm on September 25, 2011, 08:50:53 PM
Post by: inchtowntracking on September 25, 2011, 08:57:46 PM
Well, the tulalip tribes are doing GREAT! casino is booming! along with all the tax money you get off all of us buying anything on a rez. You get funds from the goverment, that we pay for, You know the treaties are off compaired to us "sportsmen". Do you realize the younger generation like myself have fished, because i have fished my life, hunted, because i have hunted my life, and this will never change either, its what we do. You are no diffrent, just diffrent laws, that should be inherited into everyones laws. We owe everything to our heratige as well, why are you so diffrent,NOW?
Why should we keep treaties for waste of resourses, when we are the ones said to make sure it is to be maintained? (mostly salmon netting on rivers for just row that i have wittnessed), why would you risk things like that if its so precious to your heritage? Again, im not pointing you out on most of this, you seem like a native with some pride in yourself. Why would natives push til its gone?? to us its a spit in the face, so why not spit back.
Ignorance must be bliss. I see a couple of sterotypes in there. Here on the rez a friend of mine got a huge 7x8 the other day!
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 25, 2011, 09:18:09 PM
Post by: colockumelk on September 26, 2011, 05:56:08 AM
The Boldt decision gave you rights to half the harvest okay. So when do you do your part in helping pay to keep those resources going? Aside from some of the outer sound tribes the eastern tribes do NOTHING... to help out with big game. That is what chaps me. Indians claim to ne stewards of helping nature and the "original" conservationists yet. refuse to police their own or help pay for conservation. We as Americans have consistantly sacrificed nor and more of our rights and opportunity in the name of conservation yet the tribes have sacrificed nothing.
We have to learn to share a dwindling resource (big game) and if we don't learn to SHARE and work together (each giving) half we WILL ALL lose the right to hunt in this state.
Post by: seth30 on September 26, 2011, 06:30:40 AM
Post by: colockumelk on September 26, 2011, 07:12:39 AM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 07:13:12 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 26, 2011, 07:31:41 AM
Post by: remington300mag on September 26, 2011, 07:33:27 AM
Post by: singleshot12 on September 26, 2011, 07:51:49 AM
YEAH ITS TIME TO NUKE THIS ONE ......YA THINK ? :yeah:
The few attempted insults and name calling could be done away with, but other than that there is some good truths on here.
The way things are going the redman will be managing all the fish and game, so no matter how much we would hate to it may be wise for us great white hunters to kiss up and be nice to our red brothers, and just maybe they'll let us hunt and fish a little :sry: :twocents:
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 08:00:12 AM
Post by: singleshot12 on September 26, 2011, 08:00:28 AM
Post by: singleshot12 on September 26, 2011, 08:05:47 AM
its all good. i would help any hunter at any time regardless who they are. its been said a million times that there are some in every group that give that group a black eye but not all are bad. if your hunting in the blues and want some honey holes to go to. look me up.
I would sure like to see other tribes get involved and do something to stop any abuse of wildlife though, it would be good for all.
Nice offer gotbigbulls, definitely past time to work together, share the pipe and get along to make progress.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 08:18:42 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 26, 2011, 08:24:59 AM
i see the comments on here about the abuse of hunting rights and so called wrongful killing of animals and not many are saying much in the defense of the accused.Diffrent rules of governing is my point.
Read my post above. I'm not exactly defending the accused, but trying to divert broad accusations against entire groups of people based on the actions of a few, a few who may not even be Yakama for all I know.
Post by: Woodchuck on September 26, 2011, 08:30:35 AM
its all good. i would help any hunter at any time regardless who they are. its been said a million times that there are some in every group that give that group a black eye but not all are bad. if your hunting in the blues and want some honey holes to go to. look me up.I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I think there is an "organization" I would like to introduce you to. Remeber, there are no elk in the Blues. ;)
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 08:36:48 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on September 26, 2011, 08:41:04 AM
Post by: remington300mag on September 26, 2011, 08:56:23 AM
i dont know what the east side tribes have for game management but i know the yakamas and ctuir have great game management and wildlife departments. ctuir has a season for game on and off reservation. aug 1-dec 31. archery only branch antler bulls aug 25-oct 15. and no branch after dec 1.Is this supposed to be a joke? Did you honestly just say that the Yakamas have great game management and wildlife departments? LMAO Best joke I have heard in a long time! I guess you were telling the truth when you said and I quote, "I don't know what the east side tribes have for game management."
Post by: bobcat on September 26, 2011, 08:58:26 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 26, 2011, 09:00:36 AM
Is this supposed to be a joke? Did you honestly just say that the Yakamas have great game management and wildlife departments? LMAO Best joke I have heard in a long time! I guess you were telling the truth when you said and I quote, "I don't know what the east side tribes have for game management."
I know several of the scientific team of the Yakama. They are very knowledgeable in their fields.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 09:03:44 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 26, 2011, 09:07:12 AM
I could be wrong, but the feeling I get is that they have NOT been effective at management of deer and elk on the Yakama reservation, because if they had, their people would not have to resort to traveling all the way to the Colockum to kill elk, or going up to the elk feeding area near Clover Springs and killing elk in the winter.
Post by: inchtowntracking on September 26, 2011, 09:11:24 AM
Post by: remington300mag on September 26, 2011, 09:18:47 AM
sorry. i meant west side. im an eastsider native.lol. ctuir is confederated tribes of umatilla indian reservation. you apparently know nothing about tribes and how they work. remington300magWell I obviously know more than you think! I can also say, when it comes to the Yakamas I could care less about how they work. From what I have seen with my own eyes, year after year, their management skills SUCK! The Yakamas have absolutely no management skills at all! Either that or they just don't give a crap. For you to sit there at your computer and talk about the great management skills of the Yakama tribe just tells me that you sir don't have a clue what you are talking about. Either that or you are jsut trying to feed everyone a big ol' plate of BS!
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 09:27:55 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 26, 2011, 09:28:19 AM
I think the Colville Tribe does a pretty good job with their game management. :twocents:I agree. They seem to have plenty of game and manage their herds/predators pretty well. People seem to be painting the tribes with a broad brush here- it's too bad that some very visible abuses lead to the "eastside tribes" bashing. There are lots of tribes on the eastside that do a good job.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 09:33:25 AM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 09:44:14 AM
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on September 26, 2011, 09:44:38 AM
I think the Colville Tribe does a pretty good job with their game management. :twocents::yeah:
Post by: remington300mag on September 26, 2011, 09:59:49 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 26, 2011, 10:08:10 AM
Quote
*censored*
For the most part you do see some Yakamas abusing their rights but that is not to say "we" all do. Also Yakamas are not the only Indians hunting this side of the State so how do you know they were all Yakamas? Did you stop and talk to them or just assume they were Yakamas because they looked Indian?
Just because we don't advertise on the front page of the paper everytime we do something doesn't mean we don't manage our fish and game. Look for yourself its on the internet for everybody to see www.yakamanation-nsn.gov .
I spend a great deal of time in the woods and yet I still find time to work full-time, pay my bills and be a productive member of society.
Remington, I mentioned it earlier that this issues are always going to be hot topics and your :beatdeadhorse: so why not just look over the last 10 months and read all about it in previous posts because all the same things you're mentioning now were already debated over and over and over again by myself and others.
Post by: sirmissalot on September 26, 2011, 10:13:08 AM
Quote
*censored*
I'd probably watch your mouth on this comment.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 10:20:50 AM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 10:29:25 AM
Post by: bearpaw on September 26, 2011, 10:38:30 AM
Thanks, Dale
Post by: longknife on September 26, 2011, 10:44:28 AM
thank your a little clueless. i know red wagon and he works his ass off. longer hours than you ever work. jealousy seems to be getting the best of you. cant change your skin color no matter how much you want to.
Do you not take hand outs from the goverment? Still gettin your check rite...No way would i be jelous of a prideless person!
Plateau You are rite, it wasnt sales tax that the tulalips won on, it was Fed, exise taxes. They got shut down on the state tax they tryed to win. No way a shopping mall, makes a city! Thats the only way they got the exise tax break. But every store has to pay the taxes, including non natives living on their rez.
So yes, they keep fedral tax money!
In creating the village, the Tulalips took advantage of a law that afforded the tribes a tax break enjoyed by cities and counties. A federal law, the Tribal Government Tax Status Act of 1982, allows Indian tribes to create politically separate subdivisions, and the tribes incorporated the village as a city directly under the U.S. government. As such, Quil Ceda Village did not have to pay federal excise taxes.
Post by: remington300mag on September 26, 2011, 10:48:41 AM
"remington300mag. i see your from cashmere. thats why your so upset. because the yakamas can hunt in the national forest in wenatchee. my friend is in there this morning hunting. now i see. makes sense now. all that animosity"
*censored*
"sounds like someone is jealous that they have to pay to hunt free roaming animals. talking all your smack...as you sit at your computer. makes me laugh."
Yet, you will delete my comments? Hmmmmm.....makes a guy wonder!
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 10:51:48 AM
Post by: remington300mag on September 26, 2011, 10:59:50 AM
come on man. think you crossed the line a bit further than i did. lol. why are you upset at our rights that WE protected for ouselves. and no i dont take handouts.That is great you don't take handouts, I applaud you for that. Not upset at all tribal members BigBulls, upset with the guys that take advantage of the treaty rights you were given. Upset that the tribal members that do care about the resources seem to not want to do anything about the ones that give their tribe a black eye all the time. You see on here that whenever there is a poacher or a report of one, everyone screams and yells, gets pissed, and hopes they are caught and punished. But when it is a tribal member taking advantage of there treaty, it seems a lot of other tribal members want to do is defend them, and make excuses for their actions. Since I believe it will only get censored, PM me and I will run down a list of things I have seen that would lead anyone to being angry about it.
Post by: PlateauNDN on September 26, 2011, 11:04:05 AM
thank your a little clueless. i know red wagon and he works his ass off. longer hours than you ever work. jealousy seems to be getting the best of you. cant change your skin color no matter how much you want to.
Do you not take hand outs from the goverment? Still gettin your check rite...No way would i be jelous of a prideless person!
Plateau You are rite, it wasnt sales tax that the tulalips won on, it was Fed, exise taxes. They got shut down on the state tax they tryed to win. No way a shopping mall, makes a city! Thats the only way they got the exise tax break. But every store has to pay the taxes, including non natives living on their rez.
So yes, they keep fedral tax money!
In creating the village, the Tulalips took advantage of a law that afforded the tribes a tax break enjoyed by cities and counties. A federal law, the Tribal Government Tax Status Act of 1982, allows Indian tribes to create politically separate subdivisions, and the tribes incorporated the village as a city directly under the U.S. government. As such, Quil Ceda Village did not have to pay federal excise taxes.
Yes, I'm RIGHT. The Tulalips are the first and one of two incorporated cities in the Country under the Federal Govt. not the State. It's their city (Village) on their reservation so why not? It wasn't illegal and they had the right to do that. They were exercising Self-Governance which is their right just like us the Yakamas are exercising our Self-Governance rights to disperse License Plates. We were not the first and more than likely we are not going to be the last.
It wasn't just the shopping mall and I was in a conference where they presented their process on how to start the LONG process of incorporation under the Federal Govt. and it wasn't just an outlet mall. The paperwork process, i.e. environmental impact studies, zoning studies and property and land acquisition...Basically everything you can think of and then some so it wasn't we have an outlet mall we want to be an incorporated city as you may think.
Yes, they got denied the State Tax because that tax applies to ALL Non-Enrolled Tribal Members. Again, Self-Governance at its best and all they had to do was exercise it guaranteed by the Treaties because of our Sovereign Status.
You went a little further than civility and that's why it was deleted. I have learned over the last 10 months the Mods are very neutral and are respectful of everybody on here.
I've said it before on older posts that I don't defend the wrongdoing but I will defend against those that target the entire group instead of saying it was just a couple of bad apples.
Post by: bearpaw on September 26, 2011, 11:23:29 AM
WE DO HAVE SOME SIMPLE RULES (please follow them)
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,4100.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,4100.0.html)
You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, slanderous, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law. You also agree not to post any copyrighted material unless you own the copyright or you have written consent from the owner of the copyrighted material. Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also forbidden on this forum.
(this is my busy time of the year, I didn't read every page, if there is another objectional comment in this discussion, please pm me the reply number and I will consider cleaning it up)
Post by: sirmissalot on September 26, 2011, 11:35:01 AM
So, you censor my comments but not the ones left from the tribal guy? You will leave comments like this.....
"remington300mag. i see your from cashmere. thats why your so upset. because the yakamas can hunt in the national forest in wenatchee. my friend is in there this morning hunting. now i see. makes sense now. all that animosity"
*censored*
"sounds like someone is jealous that they have to pay to hunt free roaming animals. talking all your smack...as you sit at your computer. makes me laugh."
Yet, you will delete my comments? Hmmmmm.....makes a guy wonder!
You were censored because your comments were over the line.
I think all of us agree that there are people out there whose actions have made others look bad, both white and red skinned. I do not agree with the way some rules are written for the natives, but just because some of them take advantage of the system doesn't make them all bad people or bad sportsman.
Don't you know "white" hunters who hunt unethically as well?
Post by: remington300mag on September 26, 2011, 11:41:51 AM
As I quoted I guess his comments were fine? Hmmmm I guess from now on I will use those quotes in my comments, since they have been deemed ok!So, you censor my comments but not the ones left from the tribal guy? You will leave comments like this.....
"remington300mag. i see your from cashmere. thats why your so upset. because the yakamas can hunt in the national forest in wenatchee. my friend is in there this morning hunting. now i see. makes sense now. all that animosity"
*censored*
"sounds like someone is jealous that they have to pay to hunt free roaming animals. talking all your smack...as you sit at your computer. makes me laugh."
Yet, you will delete my comments? Hmmmmm.....makes a guy wonder!
You were censored because your comments were over the line.
I think all of us agree that there are people out there whose actions have made others look bad, both white and red skinned. I do not agree with the way some rules are written for the natives, but just because some of them take advantage of the system doesn't make them all bad people or bad sportsman.
Don't you know "white" hunters who hunt unethically as well?
Now, As for the "White" hunters that do things unethically or illegally, Yes, I know it happens, I also know that other "White" hunters when made aware of the situation will stand up against said offender. They will call them out, turn them in, bash the heck out of them, and otherwise make it clear that the behavor is wrong.
Now, what do you see out of the tribes? How do they react to their bad apples? All I have seen in Defend Defend Defend......and if that is not going to work, Deny Deny Deny.
Post by: gonehuntin68 on September 26, 2011, 11:42:21 AM
A treaty is a contract between us and the govermnet. you guys break the treaty you break the contract. that means you give us or 24 million acres back and get of our land. .. so think twice.
how about the tready gets ripped up and we keep the land the native americans did not do so well last time
Post by: bobcat on September 26, 2011, 12:15:08 PM
Quote
how about the tready gets ripped up and we keep the land
I didn't think the indians actually "owned" the land. Where was there any type of paperwork that proved ownership? Seems to me they were just squatting on it on a temporary basis. :twocents:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 26, 2011, 12:42:19 PM
This is the 2nd time I have had to clean this topic up, next time it gets locked so keep it clean PLEASE!LOCK IT ....Because it is going to get real ugly if you do not !!!!!!! :twocents: :yike:
Thanks, Dale
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 26, 2011, 12:43:48 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 26, 2011, 12:45:50 PM
OUCH ..... :bdid:A treaty is a contract between us and the govermnet. you guys break the treaty you break the contract. that means you give us or 24 million acres back and get of our land. .. so think twice.
how about the tready gets ripped up and we keep the land the native americans did not do so well last time
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 01:58:05 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on September 26, 2011, 02:08:40 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 26, 2011, 02:19:07 PM
I'm sure at some point it will be locked, some of these mod's are a little too liberal and politically correct to hear how we feel. That one of the biggest problems with this country, we are too concerned with offending people. If you don't like it, don't read it but a question gets asked and we can't say how we feel? I definitely can't say exactly how I feel just because it will certainly get nuked. And I would venture to say most of us feel the same way when it comes to tribal hunting, we just can't say what were thinking on this web site. We'll have to save it for when we meet in the woods around the campfire. As far as how does tribal hunting effect me..... it makes my blood pressure increase to dangerous limits.
Simply Not True.....
This is my position as stated before: I think tribal issues are topics that need to be discussed openly, but in a civil fashion.
Let's hear your opinion, but if you start name calling and or posting nasty comments only meant to be inflammatory, they will be deleted. :twocents:
(if I missed a comment that goes too far, send me a pm, I am trying my best to keep this topic going, if you guys can discuss the issues with a civil tongue it will continue, it's entirely up to you)
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 02:34:58 PM
Post by: seansfire on September 26, 2011, 02:44:21 PM
the way the tribes operate now are no different than some people having another child so they can get more welfare. your people are nothing more than a disgrace and the sooner you wake up and start trying to fix the problem within your own tribes the better for yourselves.
to be clear i am not referring to every native in the world as there are some that are hard working people who pay taxes and dont feel like they have to mooch from the state at every chance. i am talking about all the ones who do nothing but take and then complain about not having enough.
i am a firm beliver that the tribes should be dis banded , the treaties should be done away with , if for no other reason than everyone should be on the same playing field. to those natives on this site , you should be ashamed to call yourselves natives after trying to stick up for the people you know dam well are out there hunting and fishing illegally. you know full well where the problems are and which people are abusing the priviledges they have been granted.
they are not rights. be clear about it. back in the 1800's the tribes got whipped so bad we felt bad for ya and gave you some extras that allowed you to fend for yourselves. dont forget where you came from.
Post by: trophyhunt on September 26, 2011, 02:46:24 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 02:59:19 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on September 26, 2011, 03:03:02 PM
I have a friend that has been a warden for over 35 years, he has worked in the enumclaw area and greenwater most his career. If you or anyone on here had the privilege to sit down and talk with him about tribal hunting and his life on the job experiences with tribal hunting it would open your eyes and yes increase your blood pressure. I really don't have the time right now to give you the many examples he has told me, I've talked about them on this site at some point I'm sure. The mucks will surly kill 10 elk when he retires, this he has told me. I want him to write a book on his life experiences, it would be a top seller amongst sportsman. If you know the greenwater area a little and the wardens in the area you will know whom I speak of and if you see him in the woods just ask him about it and watch the vein in the middle of his forehead pop out. He doesn't just talk about it so you might have to talk a bit to him first.
That is one of the areas I have heard of some horrible slaughters on elk herds.
I would love to hear from him his view, if I see him this weekend I'll be sure to bring this thread up to him.
Post by: trophyhunt on September 26, 2011, 03:16:32 PM
Encourage him to write a book if you do see him, and yes many slaughters in that area from the mucks. They also took the green river watershed from the best tag in the state in the late 80's to no hunting for anyone because of the slaughter they did in that area. Only when they agreed to only kill as many as us did the herd start to make a comeback. Yes they were involved in the replanting of elk but only after they killed 90% of them.I have a friend that has been a warden for over 35 years, he has worked in the enumclaw area and greenwater most his career. If you or anyone on here had the privilege to sit down and talk with him about tribal hunting and his life on the job experiences with tribal hunting it would open your eyes and yes increase your blood pressure. I really don't have the time right now to give you the many examples he has told me, I've talked about them on this site at some point I'm sure. The mucks will surly kill 10 elk when he retires, this he has told me. I want him to write a book on his life experiences, it would be a top seller amongst sportsman. If you know the greenwater area a little and the wardens in the area you will know whom I speak of and if you see him in the woods just ask him about it and watch the vein in the middle of his forehead pop out. He doesn't just talk about it so you might have to talk a bit to him first.
That is one of the areas I have heard of some horrible slaughters on elk herds.
I would love to hear from him his view, if I see him this weekend I'll be sure to bring this thread up to him.
Post by: jackmaster on September 26, 2011, 03:28:12 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on September 26, 2011, 03:31:05 PM
the indian people dont hunt , fish , or gather as was said in a earlier post. you people have NEVER IN YOUR LIVES had to endure any of the hardships of your ancestors. i am as white as can be but i think if i were native i would stay as far from the rez as possible because those of you that are on here saying you have " rights " and that you are a " nation " are an embarassment to everything your ancestors fought so hard and died for.I'm just speechless........
the way the tribes operate now are no different than some people having another child so they can get more welfare. your people are nothing more than a disgrace and the sooner you wake up and start trying to fix the problem within your own tribes the better for yourselves.
to be clear i am not referring to every native in the world as there are some that are hard working people who pay taxes and dont feel like they have to mooch from the state at every chance. i am talking about all the ones who do nothing but take and then complain about not having enough.
i am a firm beliver that the tribes should be dis banded , the treaties should be done away with , if for no other reason than everyone should be on the same playing field. to those natives on this site , you should be ashamed to call yourselves natives after trying to stick up for the people you know dam well are out there hunting and fishing illegally. you know full well where the problems are and which people are abusing the priviledges they have been granted.
they are not rights. be clear about it. back in the 1800's the tribes got whipped so bad we felt bad for ya and gave you some extras that allowed you to fend for yourselves. dont forget where you came from.
I had so many different versions in response to your post, I just could not bring myself to hit the post button. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Just sayin', from one "white as can be" to another.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 26, 2011, 03:31:57 PM
some of these mod's are a little too liberal and politically correct to hear how we feel
I don't picture the average moderator here sipping a latte at Starbucks while they tap away on their laptop in downtown Seattle, getting ready to go to work on Mayor McGinn's reelection campaign.
Would you want Bearpaw handing out leaflets on Capitol Hill? :chuckle:
Post by: h20hunter on September 26, 2011, 03:33:12 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 03:41:36 PM
and jackmaster. i honestly dont know how all the natives that hunting illegally. i hunt with my family and for my family. i hunt for not just my immediate family but for aunts and uncles and granparents who cant hunt. i help provide for them all. thats why i take more than one elk and deer a year. but i dont waste meat. if you think we are getting rich as a tribal member. think again. at least im not.
Post by: colockumelk on September 26, 2011, 04:25:50 PM
Plateau I saw nothing in that link that showed the Yakamas pay a dime towards big game management or do anything to help the WDFW with big game management or conservation. Big bulls you said the CIU and the Yakamas do a great job of big game management off the res. Anything to back that up?
You may hunt deep and only kill what you need but... The truth of the matter is the Yakamas and other tribes have a really bad public relations problem. As long as it is common practise for its members to kill bulls and bucks from the side of the road in the winter range in plane view of others especially on or near a feeding station you will continue to get a bad rap. If tje tribes would police their own and put a stop to it most of these issues would go away.
And yes you don't know what your talking about if you think our resources were not limited. Why do you think its spike only or 3 pt min. Why do we lose more and more hunting season and see less and less branch bull tags. Do you think its the 7-10% success rate during general season or the 15-40% success rates on special tags? Or is it because the tribes allow its members to kill 6 bulls a year from a GMU that has seen a sharp decline in its elk numbers?
My comments are from a conservation standpoint. If this was Colorado or Montana we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But its Washington and our resources and land are limited. If we dont learn to share and both do our part we are ALL gonna lose it. Like I've said before if you have 50% of the harvest its time you get 50% of the bill.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 04:37:33 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 26, 2011, 04:51:52 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 05:01:13 PM
Post by: longknife on September 26, 2011, 05:12:36 PM
what facts would you like me to produce? i know of plenty that have had their rights taken away for a year due to poaching and hunting illegally. its policed more than you know. there is no way tribes harvest 50% of big game taken each year. if thats what your saying. your stat of "way way way more" is maybe a little off. so what if i killed ten elk last year. if my family uses all that meat its my RIGHT to take what i need. plain and simple. its not my fault the success rate is so low. hunters arent what they used to be i guess. maybe the old timers need to show all the new guys how its done. thats how i was raised.
It seems like the only time an indian gets charged for poaching/wasting, (if they get charged) its a public event where it was a witnessed event, by many. Otherwise there is no policing out here in tulalip, they are the police, so it gets swept under the rug. We have cell cameras now, it will change. Nothing changes paperwork like a bunch of polititions seeing waste of the natural resourses we have to provide and maintain for your tribes.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 05:17:13 PM
Post by: saylean on September 26, 2011, 05:24:52 PM
I told him, "Save an elk, employ an indian!"...he laughed.
Post by: trophyhunt on September 26, 2011, 05:29:25 PM
trophyhunt. little ole muckelshoot tribe killed off 90% of an elk herd? where did you get that stat from? yeah im calling you out on this one. know your facts before you post.The little ole mucks kill a huge amount of elk in the white river and they did wipe out the herd in the green river shed. How the he ll can I prove that to you? My wife's uncle was a game warden, his partner is the game warden I spoke of earlier- the one with over 35+ years in that area. He has all the facts that I doubt you would believe, and the facts are the mucks destroyed the best elk tag in the state! And then tried to take credit for the release program. If your not a rich indian you should be a muck because they are very rich and will soon own a huge portion of Auburn and the white river unit, all thanks to the white man and those who support indian casinos. My ancestors used to feed the family off the land too, you don't deserve any special rights over me or any non indian hunter.
and jackmaster. i honestly don't know how all the natives that hunting illegally. i hunt with my family and for my family. i hunt for not just my immediate family but for aunts and uncles and granparents who cant hunt. i help provide for them all. that's why i take more than one elk and deer a year. but i don't waste meat. if you think we are getting rich as a tribal member. think again. at least I'm not.
Post by: longknife on September 26, 2011, 05:34:04 PM
if you dont want to provide. stay out of the casinos. i didnt know you provided natural resources. seems like a dumb statement to make but you made it anyway.
We have to maintain fish population for your tribes, and for us. When tax payers have to pay for it, YES, we provide resourses. I have never stepped foot in a casino, and tell everyone i know not to give a dime!
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 05:36:21 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 05:38:54 PM
if you dont want to provide. stay out of the casinos. i didnt know you provided natural resources. seems like a dumb statement to make but you made it anyway.
We have to maintain fish population for your tribes, and for us. When tax payers have to pay for it, YES, we provide resourses. I have never stepped foot in a casino, and tell everyone i know not to give a dime!
you should try spending a dime there. might get lucky. and how do you maintain fish population for us. please do share your infinite wisdom on how this is done. im interested
Post by: trophyhunt on September 26, 2011, 05:39:10 PM
Post by: benhuntin on September 26, 2011, 05:41:50 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 05:43:54 PM
Post by: Alan K on September 26, 2011, 05:45:12 PM
Lets put it this way, if we all hunted like the indians there would be nothing left in the woods. It's a good thing your a small population. Enough for me tonight.
:yeah:
Post by: benhuntin on September 26, 2011, 05:46:32 PM
you can claim all you want. proof is hard to come by. maybe you should just stop hunting. and bye beef. probably cheaper. i dont know what tags costwhy dont you know how much tags cost?
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 05:47:51 PM
Post by: benhuntin on September 26, 2011, 05:50:12 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 05:52:05 PM
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on September 26, 2011, 05:53:36 PM
Some of you (on both sides) should probably pull your heads out of the 5th grade if you want to have an intelligent debate. This is more like a bunch of 11 year olds trying to prove to each other how mature and smart they are.
Please tell me after 11 pages what have all of you accomplished? NOTHING! ! ! Other than a few of you making yourselves look like idiots. Some just feel the need to put a word in. Wether it makes sense or not and if you have nothing constructive to say just throw a couple profanities and insults in the discussion. That will raise everyones IQ and bring awarness to issues in this state.
Post by: benhuntin on September 26, 2011, 05:56:52 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 05:57:22 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on September 26, 2011, 05:57:33 PM
why dont you need a tag? And I read a couple of pages.
No fair to the rest of us. You can't come here, read less than 20% of the material, and ask for a synopsis.
You must sit down and read everything :chuckle:
Post by: colockumelk on September 26, 2011, 05:57:47 PM
Bigbulls you demand facts yet you produce none of your own. You are right us Americans (non-native is offensive to me) do harvest more than Indians do. That's because we make up 90% of the hunters. Indian hunters kill way way way way more per person than American hunters do.
Plateau I saw nothing in that link that showed the Yakamas pay a dime towards big game management or do anything to help the WDFW with big game management or conservation. Big bulls you said the CIU and the Yakamas do a great job of big game management off the res. Anything to back that up?
You may hunt deep and only kill what you need but... The truth of the matter is the Yakamas and other tribes have a really bad public relations problem. As long as it is common practise for its members to kill bulls and bucks from the side of the road in the winter range in plane view of others especially on or near a feeding station you will continue to get a bad rap. If the tribes would police their own and put a stop to it most of these issues would go away.
And yes you don't know what your talking about if you think our resources were not limited. Why do you think its spike only or 3 pt min. Why do we lose more and more hunting season and see less and less branch bull tags. Do you think its the 7-10% success rate during general season or the 15-40% success rates on special tags? Or is it because the tribes allow its members to kill 6 bulls a year from a GMU that has seen a sharp decline in its elk numbers?
My comments are from a conservation standpoint. If this was Colorado or Montana we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But its Washington and our resources and land are limited. If we dont learn to share and both do our part we are ALL gonna lose it. Like I've said before if you have 50% of the harvest its time you get 50% of the bill.
what facts would you like me to produce? i know of plenty that have had their rights taken away for a year due to poaching and hunting illegally. its policed more than you know. there is no way tribes harvest 50% of big game taken each year. if thats what your saying. your stat of "way way way more" is maybe a little off. so what if i killed ten elk last year. if my family uses all that meat its my RIGHT to take what i need. plain and simple. its not my fault the success rate is so low. hunters arent what they used to be i guess. maybe the old timers need to show all the new guys how its done. thats how i was raised.
Bigbulls I had high hopes for you I really did. But like many before you you have ducked and dodged all of my points and quetions. The facts you so innocently acted like you didn't know I asked for was to show how and where the CIU or the Yakama's have helped or funded conservation and managment in regards to big game? If you knew your facts or did your home work you would know that the Boldt decision gave the tribes the RIGHT to 50% of the harvest. So when are you gonna start paying your fair share.
As far as your last comment about how our success rate is due to us being lazy hunters. That shows your class and your lack of understanding of how hard our seasons are. If your tribal hunters had the same season we had I highly doubt the success rate would be higher. And you should be thankful that we hold our selves to a higher standard and police ourselves. Because if we had your seasons we wouldn't have any elk and deer to hunt.
Big bulls you should really thank all of us because when we buy our tag every year it pays for...
the elk to have been transplanted from Yellowstone to Eastern WA.
it pays to feed the elk and deer that you hunt through a hard winter,
it pays to maintain the roads that you drive on to go hunting,
it pays to pay scientists to study populations and game trends so that we can conserve andproperly manage our herds,
it pays for the game wardens that police up the poachers,
it pays for programs that make the habitat better so we can have more big game,
You should thank us because if it wasn't for us and the WDFW we wouldn't have made sacrifices which
made it spike only to ensure that there would be more branch bulls for you to hunt,
we cut back on number of days in the season and changed the timing of the seasons so that we could control the amount of harvest so the deer and elk herds would remain healthy so you could hunt them.
We cut the amount of doe and cow tags so we could grow the herd so you have more deer and elk to hunt.
we made it 3pt min for deer so more of those bucks could grow up so you have more big bucks to hunt.
I could go on and on if you would like. Like I said before what has the tribes on the East Side done to help out the big game herds? Oh I went back and made my main talking points in red. If you would like to respond, go for it.
Post by: benhuntin on September 26, 2011, 05:59:12 PM
Sorry Knocker :chuckle:why dont you need a tag? And I read a couple of pages.
No fair to the rest of us. You can't come here, read less than 20% of the material, and ask for a synopsis.
You must sit down and read everything :chuckle:
Post by: windygorge on September 26, 2011, 06:02:31 PM
so tell me this igotbigbulls. is there a hotline that can be used for your tribe and others that if an illegal act is being done, that we can call??
can you copy and paste tribal regulations on here, so we have an understanding what tribes consider illegal.
weapon types, amount of loads in a gun, wastefullness, etc...
fishing for roe, seems it should be illegal. is it??
anyway, anything would help and im sure alot of non-indians would appreciate some insight
thanks again for being a forum member
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 06:12:46 PM
i cant hunt big game during the hard winter my season is aug1-dec31
and we got our own scientists, own roads, but we do pay the same taxes as you. got our own programs, got our own game wardens. you know nothing about tribal laws, regs or actually anything. im not a yakama. so i fall into that other tribes area i guess. i didnt need the boldt desicion to tell me what and where i can hunt. its spelled out in OUR treaty. dont be so narrow minded. non natives poach! obviously alot. thats why you continue to need more game wardens and that makes your tags cost more and so on and so on. if you aint got proof stay quiet.
btw do you think we dont pay taxes like everyone else?
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 06:17:48 PM
honestly, i am really glad your on here igotbigbulls. sorry things get out of hand, and really glad you roll with them and demand facts. i am just reading and trying to decipher the BS from facts. as i have never experienced tribal abuse, only hear say. what i hear is enough to make my hair stand on my arms. i just wonder how much is true, but i also wonder how diligent the tribes are in policing illegal hunting as you say they are. i know there are hell raising indians out there, who love to have a good time, and that seems to piss off alot of non-indians. and i damn sure know there are non-indians out there who love to raise hell and have a good time. i think the difference is, that when indians do it, and go and kill an elk with a rifle during bow season while they are hooping and hollering, it feels to the non-indian a sort of taunting is happening. i have only seen non-indians in the mountains raising hell, only in part because i hunt little where indians tend to roam. I have seen in the clearwater a truck of 4 indians going through a locked gate. but i also know of a few non-indians that have access to gates and use it during archery season. who can say they never seen a quad running around behind gates, when it shouldn't be. i know i have. all have been non-indians. pisses me off to. i am one who only supports facts, facts to me are proof. facts to me are photos, video, and so on. like i said proof. i don't really care about percentages and ratios, thats not what i want. save that crap someone who cares. sometimes facts are misleading and unfortunately, hearsay is fact to alot of people. take our dumb a@@ president for example. how else could he have made president since the real facts showed he was not suitable for the job, yet he was voted on by majority. yea, blows me away to.sounds like a good idea. i ll pm you. i cant and wont speak for the different tribes. its there right. state fish and game in the areas are well versed in tribal laws.
so tell me this igotbigbulls. is there a hotline that can be used for your tribe and others that if an illegal act is being done, that we can call??
can you copy and paste tribal regulations on here, so we have an understanding what tribes consider illegal.
weapon types, amount of loads in a gun, wastefullness, etc...
fishing for roe, seems it should be illegal. is it??
anyway, anything would help and im sure alot of non-indians would appreciate some insight
thanks again for being a forum member
Post by: colockumelk on September 26, 2011, 06:20:12 PM
colokumelk
i cant hunt big game during the hard winter my season is aug1-dec31
and we got our own scientists, own roads, but we do pay the same taxes as you. got our own programs, got our own game wardens. you know nothing about tribal laws, regs or actually anything. im not a yakama. so i fall into that other tribes area i guess. i didnt need the boldt desicion to tell me what and where i can hunt. its spelled out in OUR treaty. dont be so narrow minded. non natives poach! obviously alot. thats why you continue to need more game wardens and that makes your tags cost more and so on and so on. if you aint got proof stay quiet.
btw do you think we dont pay taxes like everyone else?
igotbigbulls let me tell you something. Obviously you havn't been on this website for very long so I'll give you a pass on this last comment. I GUARANTEE YOU I know more about the Boldt Decision than you do. I GUARANTEE YOU that I know more about the 1855 treaty than you do. I GUARANTEE YOU I know more about the Yakama game regs than many Yakama's do. Way to completely avoid all debate and duck my points and direct questions. The true mark of someone who does not either know what they are talking about, does not have the facts or does know the facts and knows if they stay on the subject they are beat.
If you knew about the Yakama game regs you would know they CAN and DO hunt after Dec 31. I also told you its AMERICAN's not non-natives. That word is offensive. I'm more native than you are and I GUARANTEE YOU I have done more for this country than you have. NUFF SAID. If you want to bring facts or intelligence to the debate then I'll debate. But if all you want to do is use name calling, offensive terms and duck and dodge the issue then I'm done. Good day!
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 06:28:42 PM
Post by: colockumelk on September 26, 2011, 06:47:47 PM
If you think that those free ranging animals that we have didn't come with a price then you are mistaken. We have paid for them so you can hunt them. FOR FREE! Your welcome.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 06:59:57 PM
Post by: rezboy on September 26, 2011, 07:02:31 PM
Post by: Alan K on September 26, 2011, 07:04:43 PM
i think the tribes have been managing the big game herds in this country for a long time and know what they are doing. lot longer than the state management system.
LOL
Now THAT speaks to your credibility! :yike: The tribes have repeatedly decimated OUR elk herds, which we continue to replenish and shut down hunting for decades, only to have it happen again. Maybe the tribes have managed their reservations okay, but they sure rape the hell out of the lands managed by us!
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 26, 2011, 07:09:19 PM
Post by: rezboy on September 26, 2011, 07:11:52 PM
I missed alot since I went to my kids football game .. :chuckle: which they kicked some azz and are now 4-0 .... :yeah: But I need to now laugh at this sheet because it will hit 20 pages ...Hell your going to beat BUCKLUCKY and he has something to really talk about :chuckle: he actually bagged up an elk ... NOW THATS SOME IMPORTANT SHEET THEIR NOW :dunno: :chuckle: I guess you guys love pi$$ing each other off :yike: :dunno:
:yeah:
Congrats to the kiddo playing ball...(something that actually is worth commenting on!)
Post by: colockumelk on September 26, 2011, 07:22:46 PM
look the answer i give is not going to make you happy. we take care of OUR reservation. and the things on it. people and animals. we reserved the right to hunt in our usual and acustomed hunting areas. which includes all unclaimed land in that area. the state chooses to do what they do in regard to game management they see fit. you are governed by the states regulations on fishing and hunting. the ctuir has there own programs and also works with the states in managing game. why do you think you have seasons and regulations? its to manage the game right. so the herds are not desimated. yakamas cant shoot cows from end of dec to aug. why do you think they do that? you know the answer. i think the tribes have been managing the big game herds in this country for a long time and know what they are doing. lot longer than the state management system.
Nope that was the answer I knew to be true. Thank you for making my point. They do nothing. Don't you think they should help manage and help conserve the animals they hunt?
Hey rez how is it going. Hope the hunting is going good for you. You know me I love a good debate.
Post by: rezboy on September 26, 2011, 07:26:42 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 07:34:24 PM
Post by: 3dsheetmetal on September 26, 2011, 07:48:03 PM
Post by: colockumelk on September 26, 2011, 07:50:46 PM
Going well Colockum...the family hasn't had time to hunt yet this year, but hopefully soon.
What???? But your missing the rut. Well i know your a busy guy so Im sure youve got a good reason. Have you at least been fishing I heard the run this year is awsome.
Well hope you get your kids a shot at some animals. How did that sausage thing turn out for you.
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 07:52:33 PM
Post by: rezboy on September 26, 2011, 07:56:42 PM
Going well Colockum...the family hasn't had time to hunt yet this year, but hopefully soon.
What???? But your missing the rut. Well i know your a busy guy so Im sure youve got a good reason. Have you at least been fishing I heard the run this year is awsome.
Well hope you get your kids a shot at some animals. How did that sausage thing turn out for you.
I know!... We have all been too busy... fishing has been decent but the kiddos sporting events have been dominating our schedule. Didn't end up doing the sausage last year, but am already preparing to do it this year!
Post by: Jerome on September 26, 2011, 08:21:16 PM
no limit.but no branch antler bull with rifle from aug 25-oct15 and no branch antler bull period from dec 1-31. but its what you need for your fam.
No limit??? That sounds like great game management.
Post by: tjgerm on September 26, 2011, 08:59:34 PM
LApush I believe is 2 tags per person open aug 1- dec 31 any weapon
Makah bull only one tag and i believe is Sept 1 -dec 31 not sure on the dates though
I work with a Makah tribal member who hunts by the states regs by his choice he killed a rag rack this year with his bow he's a pretty good guy. He didn't kill anything the last few years but this year it worked out for him.
Post by: tjgerm on September 26, 2011, 09:14:21 PM
Post by: bod on September 26, 2011, 09:58:33 PM
Post by: igotbigbulls on September 26, 2011, 10:17:09 PM
Post by: 724wd on September 26, 2011, 11:10:20 PM
Post by: whiteeyes on September 27, 2011, 04:46:07 AM
Post by: motcha on September 27, 2011, 06:16:24 AM
Post by: bearpaw on September 27, 2011, 09:31:27 AM
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