Another pen raised trophy kill trying to get attention as new world record...

[scout/sniper]

However, estate animals should never compete in the books with wild animals.

Agreed! 

[bearpaw]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with and no difference with fishing for hatchery trout/salmon/steelhead, hunting released pheasant or turkey, or hunting high fenced elk or other animals. How about the fish tanks at the sports shows where we all let the kids fish?

I'm not judging high fence hunts as right or wrong, but there is absolutely a difference...it's called fair chase.

There's a reason I apply for Utah limited-entry draws. At the same time, I am glad there are game ranch opportunities available for those that want them.   

However, estate animals should never compete in the books with wild animals.

Agreed! 

Has anyone figured out if Lemon is claiming it's a world record estate buck or if he is claiming it's a record wild mule buck? This really could be that someone misinterpreted the entire situation. 

[Bullkllr]

There are pretty well documented concerns regarding farmed wildlife. For example:

Idaho Department of Fish & Game PO Box 25 600 S. Walnut Street Boise, Idaho 83707 www.fishandgame.idaho.gov
ISSUE STATEMENT Domestic Elk Farming January 12, 2006
Background: Idaho is home to approximately 125,000 wild elk that provide hunting opportunity for approximately 100,000 resident and nonresident hunters. In 2005, elk hunters spent approximately $67 million dollars on fuel, motels, restaurants, tags/licenses, guides, etc. These direct expenditures resulted in an estimated economic impact of over $170 million to Idaho. Many of Idaho�s rural family businesses are dependent on wildlife-based recreational dollars.
The number of domestic elk in Idaho has increased substantially since 1994 when the Idaho legislature deemed the possession of domestic cervidae (elk, fallow deer, and reindeer) as an agricultural pursuit to be administered by the Idaho State Department of Agriculture. Currently, there are 78 elk farms in Idaho possessing 5,843 elk, not including calves. Historically, domestic elk were raised primarily for velvet antlers, meat, and breeding stock. Recently, operations offering shooting opportunity for domestic bull elk have increased. The Idaho State Department of Agriculture (ISDA) believes 14 elk farms currently offer shooting opportunity.
Many of the new shooting operations are located in areas important to wild elk. The increase in domestic elk farms near or in wild elk habitat, particularly shooting operations, has increased the risk of contact between domestic and wild elk. Domestic elk can be an attractant for wild elk, particularly during mating season. Single fences do not prevent contact between domestic and wild elk. Nose-to-nose contact through fences and escape of domestic elk are common occurrences where domestic elk farms are within wild elk range. Additionally, domestic elk farms have resulted in confinement of wild deer, elk, and moose.
Issues: Disease - Diseases of primary concern to both the Department of Fish and Game (IDFG) and ISDA are the �regulatory diseases� including chronic wasting disease (CWD), brucellosis, and bovine tuberculosis (TB). Additionally, IDFG is concerned about diseases and parasites not endemic to Idaho wild elk including meningeal worm, paratuberculosis, giant liver fluke, and others (known and unknown). Idaho State Department of Agriculture only maintains a monitoring and control program for the regulatory diseases. Domestic elk from areas endemic for meningeal worm are prohibited from being directly imported into Idaho by ISDA rules. However, the rules do not prevent the importation of any elk originating from areas endemic for meningeal worm.
Giant liver flukes were discovered a couple of years ago as a mortality cause in a domestic elk operation in eastern Idaho. In September 2006, an unmarked yearling bull elk, harvested while standing with escaped domestic elk, was found to have giant liver flukes. It is unknown whether this unmarked elk was wild or domestic. There is no evidence to indicate these two cases of giant liver flukes are related. Additionally, wild elk in portions of eastern Idaho carry brucellosis.
The risk of disease or parasite transmission can be minimized if contact between domestic and wild elk doesn�t occur. Additionally, comprehensive and enforceable regulatory mechanisms must exist to prevent importation of diseases and parasites not endemic to Idaho. Because disease control in wild, free-ranging populations is problematic, disease prevention is preferable.
Genetic Interchange - The long-term consequences of genetic interchange between domestic and wild elk are unknown. However, experiences with interbreeding of other domestic and wild animals indicate survival and reproduction of offspring can be compromised.
Current state law prohibits the importation and possession of Eurasian red deer or red deer hybrids. However, the recent discovery of an elk with red deer genetic influence suggests the current screening processes and regulatory procedures are inadequate to prevent introduction of red deer genes into wild elk. As with diseases, comprehensive and enforceable regulatory mechanisms that prevent contact between wild and domestic elk are necessary to prevent genetic interchange between wild and domestic elk.
Confinement of Wild Cervids � Idaho State Department of Agriculture rules prohibit wild cervids from being confined within domestic elk farms. However, ISDA defers management of wild cervid confinement to IDFG. Routinely, IDFG works with ISDA and domestic elk farmers to remove wild cervids from inside enclosures. Attempts to haze wild cervids from inside domestic elk enclosures have had limited success, especially in large enclosures with rugged terrain and thick cover.
Inadequate fence design or maintenance, drifting snow, and fence damage caused by falling trees commonly create opportunities for wild cervids to enter fenced facilities. If contact occurs between wild and domestic cervids, and disease or genetic interchange is a concern, IDFG lethally removes the wild cervids. Lethal removal has been conducted by domestic elk farmers (with IDFG approval), agency personnel, and in very limited circumstances, sportsmen.
Loss of wild cervids that become confined, or are lethally removed, represent lost hunting and viewing opportunities for Idaho hunters and wildlife enthusiasts.
Impacts on Native Cervids - Many domestic elk farms are located in agricultural areas and pose minimal threat to wild cervids. However, the increase in domestic elk shooting operations has increased the number of elk farms located in wild cervid habitats. Concerns exist over high fences excluding wild cervids from important seasonal habitats (i.e. winter range) and altering important movement corridors. Use of Sportsman�s Funds � The Idaho Department of Fish & Game is almost entirely funded by license funds and federal funding derived from excise taxes on sporting goods. IDFG receives no general state fund revenues. Idaho Department of Fish & Game costs associated with responding to wild cervids inside domestic elk farms or escapes of domestic elk are paid with existing revenue sources. Since July 2003, IDFG has documented a minimum of $75,000 spent on attempting to remove wild cervids from inside domestic elk farms and assisting with efforts to capture escaped domestic elk.
Public Support for Hunting � In Idaho, and throughout America, wildlife is owned by the public. Uses of wildlife, including hunting, are dependent on public support. Numerous surveys have indicated that public support for hunting is largely contingent on principles of fair chase. Several sporting organizations have adopted definitions of fair chase, some of them different. However, a common theme among the definitions is that an animal has a reasonable chance of eluding a hunter.
Idaho Fish and Game Commission Statement of Policy Regarding Domestic Elk January 11, 2007
Whereas, the Idaho Fish and Game Commission (�Commission�) is responsible by law to preserve, protect, perpetuate and manage wildlife in the state of Idaho.
Whereas, the Commission has a strong desire and responsibility to protect wild elk from diseases and genetic impurities.
Whereas, the Commission believes that domestic elk herds pose real and substantial risks to Idaho�s wild elk populations.
Now, therefore, the Commission adopts the following policy statements with regards to domestic elk operations:
1. The Commission encourages the state of Idaho to enact legislation and establish and fund appropriate policies to protect wild cervids from disease and genetic risks posed by domestic elk.
2. The Commission does not recognize the shooting of domestic elk for recreational purposes within confined facilities as �hunting.�
3. The Commission advocates the principles of fair chase and ethics in the harvest of wild game.
4. The Commission is opposed to spending sportsmen�s dollars on the management or control of domestic elk.
Adopted: January 11, 2007 Idaho Fish and Game Commissioners
/S/ /S/ Cameron Wheeler, Chairman Wayne Wright, Vice Chair Upper Snake Region 6 Magic Valley Region 4
/S/ /S/ Tony McDermott Alex Irby Panhandle Region 1 Clearwater Region 2
/S/ /S/ Bob Barowsky Randall C. Budge Southwest Region 3 Southeast Region 5
/S/ Gary Power Salmon Region 7

[scout/sniper]

Has anyone figured out if Lemon is claiming it's a world record estate buck or if he is claiming it's a record wild mule buck? This really could be that someone misinterpreted the entire situation. 

I don't see where he is actually claiming either.
He is getting a lot of flack on his FB though.

[scout/sniper]

Apparently it scored 226"
I wouldn't worry about a record being broken.

[snowpack]

Apparently it scored 226"
I wouldn't worry about a record being broken.

one of the articles I read said it beat the old world record by over 5 inches.  226 3/8 vs 221 2/8

[scout/sniper]

Apparently it scored 226"
I wouldn't worry about a record being broken.

one of the articles I read said it beat the old world record by over 5 inches.  226 3/8 vs 221 2/8

  Time to study the record books.

[bearpaw]

Of course I wouldn't want disease spreading form domestic animals to wild. But in spite of the Idaho statement, I am pretty sure there is more disease in the wild herds than in the domestic. Every ranch elk has to be tested, almost no wild elk are being tested. Many game ranch operators are concerned about disease from wild animals. 

[pianoman9701]

Of course I wouldn't want disease spreading form domestic animals to wild. But in spite of the Idaho statement, I am pretty sure there is more disease in the wild herds than in the domestic. Every ranch elk has to be tested, almost no wild elk are being tested. Many game ranch operators are concerned about disease from wild animals. 

They don't seem to concerned about the diseases the wolves are bringing with them. 

[bearpaw]

Of course I wouldn't want disease spreading form domestic animals to wild. But in spite of the Idaho statement, I am pretty sure there is more disease in the wild herds than in the domestic. Every ranch elk has to be tested, almost no wild elk are being tested. Many game ranch operators are concerned about disease from wild animals. 

Same is true of bison herds. Wild herds are known to carry disease while the domestic herds are relatively disease free.

Of course I wouldn't want disease spreading form domestic animals to wild. But in spite of the Idaho statement, I am pretty sure there is more disease in the wild herds than in the domestic. Every ranch elk has to be tested, almost no wild elk are being tested. Many game ranch operators are concerned about disease from wild animals. 

They don't seem to concerned about the diseases the wolves are bringing with them. 

You are precisely correct, in fact the F&G has done everything they can to hide the diseases in wolves. 

[Dave of TDG-Farms]

So then, you think that ranches/game farms that raise elk for meat should be abolished then? Bison? What about game birds? Game meat is a huge business in the US and you'd be putting lots of private entrepreneurs out of it. How about the quail egg market - huge.  If not, what's the difference between a game ranch that raises meat for the commercial market and one which raises it for hunting, which would be a commercial market?

Just because you don't agree with raising animals which are normally wildlife doesn't mean you get to say it's illegal for everyone. That's like the wave of the king's hand there, BC.

The game farms you speak of are all government inspected, cataloged and policed. This is not so the case with "farm" wildlife raised for hunting. Though I would guess there maybe a few states with more restrictions then others. You wanna defend em fine. Personally I find it disgusting and would never hunt like that. But thats me. Great for disabled people. Though, rarely do you see these farms used for anything other then huge trophy bucks/bulls. I do believe these animals should be registered at birth and tattooed or chipped. This would be a good way (not a great way) to keep them separate from wild stock in terms of trophy/records. On that topic, I think any farm raised animal should not be allowed to make it into a record book. There is no reason to Celebrate an animal that has been genetically raised to surpass its wildlife counterparts. 

[bearpaw]

Actually every elk is assigned a number and tracked, including after kill, and tested after the kill. There is far less risk of domestic elk spreading disease than wild elk.

I hunt mainly wild animals and plan to keep it that way, but I get a little excited when I see people talking smack about something they are not informed about. 

[snowpack]

Of course I wouldn't want disease spreading form domestic animals to wild. But in spite of the Idaho statement, I am pretty sure there is more disease in the wild herds than in the domestic. Every ranch elk has to be tested, almost no wild elk are being tested. Many game ranch operators are concerned about disease from wild animals. 

They don't seem to concerned about the diseases the wolves are bringing with them. 

They haven't been too concerned with hoof rot or hair loss and containing them.

[bearpaw]

Of course I wouldn't want disease spreading form domestic animals to wild. But in spite of the Idaho statement, I am pretty sure there is more disease in the wild herds than in the domestic. Every ranch elk has to be tested, almost no wild elk are being tested. Many game ranch operators are concerned about disease from wild animals. 

They don't seem to concerned about the diseases the wolves are bringing with them. 

They haven't been too concerned with hoof rot or hair loss and containing them.

I thought the exact same thing. If that was an elk rancher in Idaho with sick elk he would be called the anti-Christ. Sort of a double standard if you ask me. 

[bobcat]

Of course I wouldn't want disease spreading form domestic animals to wild. But in spite of the Idaho statement, I am pretty sure there is more disease in the wild herds than in the domestic. Every ranch elk has to be tested, almost no wild elk are being tested. Many game ranch operators are concerned about disease from wild animals. 

They don't seem to concerned about the diseases the wolves are bringing with them. 

They haven't been too concerned with hoof rot or hair loss and containing them.

I thought the exact same thing. If that was an elk rancher in Idaho with sick elk he would be called the anti-Christ. Sort of a double standard if you ask me. 

It's not a double standard. Wild animals cannot be tested, treated, quarantined, or anything else like domestic animals can. That's because they are WILD!

Do we want to control nature that much, so that wild animals are 100% disease free?

Personally, I feel that just the fact that domesticated elk exist, takes away from the value of wild elk. For me elk would be even more of a trophy if the possibility of purchasing a "trophy" bull was not an option. Or if the only way to acquire elk meat was by hunting, instead of simply ordering it online to be shipped to your house.