After 3 weeks of training at Cooke Canyon with my WHPG

[richardt]

This was my dog last summer at 45 days,about halfway in the training process for wing and shot. He was 18 months old at the time  http://youtu.be/QU3AhxZO5u0

30 actual training days, This dog is being broke for horseback field trials,this is the begining stage of the wing shot process.
http://youtu.be/jhDMGbFkoQc

Thanks for sharing those vids, your dog looked very steady! I can only imagine what he looked like when he was done, and he had such a pretty point!

I call my trainer every week, and when I call him tomorrow, I'm going to ask when will he start a similar process to get Drake steady like that. I know he does that eventually, but I didn't realize you could steady a dog so well after only 4-6 weeks, and I want to make sure he starts sooner rather than later on him. There's nothing that scares me worse is a dog that immediately starts chasing birds when they're flushed, it's asking for trouble if the dog were to jump up or something right as you shot. I want Drake to eventually hold steady until after I release him to retrieve.


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[jetjockey]

Not a single dog on the praries of canada or the northern prarieof the  US get birds killed over them at summer camp Jet,if they are being killed it is done illegally,On the praries kill pigeons are not used as they are tough to find supply wise, they do yardwork/roading until the pursuit season and then get blanked over on wild birds..... My statement still stands at 90% the other 10% are the ones me and you agree on,they are the top 10 percent of trial dogs.

Ever heard of winter camp?  Many of the top Pros head South in the winter to South GA and TX to hunt quail during the winter.  They Legally kill tons of birds over them.  I stand by by statement.  Maybe in the PNW, but in other parts of the country, trial dogs get lots of birds killed over them.

Besides, in SD, Sharptail season opens the second week of Sept, so your wrong that dogs at summer camps don't get birds shot over them. My buddies use the sharptail opener as an excuse to go to summer camp and hunt their trial dogs just before trial season.  Depending on my schedule, I'm hopefully going to do it this year as well.

[AspenBud]

Not a single dog on the praries of canada or the northern prarieof the  US get birds killed over them at summer camp Jet,if they are being killed it is done illegally,On the praries kill pigeons are not used as they are tough to find supply wise, they do yardwork/roading until the pursuit season and then get blanked over on wild birds..... My statement still stands at 90% the other 10% are the ones me and you agree on,they are the top 10 percent of trial dogs.

Ever heard of winter camp?  Many of the top Pros head South in the winter to South GA and TX to hunt quail during the winter.  They Legally kill tons of birds over them.  I stand by by statement.  Maybe in the PNW, but in other parts of the country, trial dogs get lots of birds killed over them.

Besides, in SD, Sharptail season opens the second week of Sept, so your wrong that dogs at summer camps don't get birds shot over them. My buddies use the sharptail opener as an excuse to go to summer camp and hunt their trial dogs just before trial season.  Depending on my schedule, I'm hopefully going to do it this year as well.

I'm going to hope the trainers are living on the birds they shoot then. That's a lot of dead birds depending on how many dogs go to winter camp. It's also unnecessary for dogs preparing for trials with no retrieving requirement and even those that are will only be going after pen raised poultry.

[jetjockey]

They aren't killing many birds, but the dogs are seeing a few birds killed. I was just disputing the fact that Wild said not a single dog sees a bird killed over them at Summer Camps. That's not true.  It happens on a fairly regular basis. Also, many of the fall trials in the Midwest are wild bird trials.  The first major Championship in the brittany world is the Chicken Championship held in the Sandhills of NE.  It is a completely wild bird trial and no birds of any kind are released.  The dogs see a lot of wild birds in the fall circuits in the Midwest and South.

[AspenBud]

They aren't killing many birds, but the dogs are seeing a few birds killed. I was just disputing the fact that Wild said not a single dog sees a bird killed over them at Summer Camps. That's not true.  It happens on a fairly regular basis. Also, many of the fall trials in the Midwest are wild bird trials.  The first major Championship in the brittany world is the Chicken Championship held in the Sandhills of NE.  It is a completely wild bird trial and no birds of any kind are released.  The dogs see a lot of wild birds in the fall circuits in the Midwest and South.

Coverdog is run 100% on ruffed grouse and woodcock. No birds get shot.

The guys that I've chatted with who sent dogs to places like AZ for winter training were more concerned about bird contacts and keeping the dogs working in the off season than having many shot over them. Given a choice they would rather have had the dogs on grouse, but when the winter snows come that's not feasible out there so they send them south until the quiet seasons end, typically around mid July.

[Bluemoon]

Our summer camp in North Central Montana that starts Aug. 1st consists of Wild Birds (pursuit Season) in the morning.  Than Planted birds (Chukar & Pheasant) in the afternoon.   We have 150 Chukar and 75 Pheasant allocated this year for 20 dogs.  We train all of ours to be steady to Wing and Shot.  If you hunt covey birds such as Sharpies and Huns they have to be steady!!!
Wild I agree with you, for here in the NW I would say at least 80% of the trial dogs do not hunt real birds.  The ones that do are the ones that are kicking you know what at the trials.

[AspenBud]

Our summer camp in North Central Montana that starts Aug. 1st consists of Wild Birds (pursuit Season) in the morning.  Than Planted birds (Chukar & Pheasant) in the afternoon.   We have 150 Chukar and 75 Pheasant allocated this year for 20 dogs.  We train all of ours to be steady to Wing and Shot.  If you hunt covey birds such as Sharpies and Huns they have to be steady!!!
Wild I agree with you, for here in the NW I would say at least 80% of the trial dogs do not hunt real birds.  The ones that do are the ones that are kicking you know what at the trials.

Do you mean they aren't run on wild birds in trials or that they aren't hunted at all on the real deal? If it's the latter that's a pretty shocking statistic.

[jetjockey]

I think he means the latter.  And I agree, it's suprising.  It's not that way everywhere.

[AspenBud]

I think he means the latter.  And I agree, it's suprising.  It's not that way everywhere.

I remember people suggesting that field trial dogs weren't hunted with when I lived in the Midwest and the Coverdog guys would about come unglued as not only were their dogs competing on wild game birds they were personal gun dogs for many as well.

[richardt]

for here in the NW I would say at least 80% of the trial dogs do not hunt real birds.  The ones that do are the ones that are kicking you know what at the trials.

So are you saying that 80% of those dog at the trials, are trained just for trials? If they are, that's incredible. Why go through all that time and effort to train a bird dog, if you're not training it with the purpose of hunting it?

I mean, I'm going to participate in trials, but only as an aside, and to help "prove" Drakes abilities/trainability in case I end up trying to breed him. My main purpose of training him is to have a hunting dog/buddy. Anything else is just a secondary benefit.


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[AspenBud]

for here in the NW I would say at least 80% of the trial dogs do not hunt real birds.  The ones that do are the ones that are kicking you know what at the trials.

So are you saying that 80% of those dog at the trials, are trained just for trials? If they are, that's incredible. Why go through all that time and effort to train a bird dog, if you're not training it with the purpose of hunting it?

I mean, I'm going to participate in trials, but only as an aside, and to help "prove" Drakes abilities/trainability in case I end up trying to breed him. My main purpose of training him is to have a hunting dog/buddy. Anything else is just a secondary benefit.


Sent from my iPhone

If you're doing AKC hunt tests and NAVHDA you are not competing in field trials.

The deal with hunting and field trials is you have to understand that in order for the dog to make a name for itself and advance to bigger events it has to be campaigned and that means it spends a lot of time on the road going to event after event. For a lot of guys deeply into that it's all about the game and the dogs, hunting is secondary.

It's a broad brush statement, but it's also important to realize that at the top level you have lawyers, doctors...people with money, who basically buy a dog and pay a trainer/field trialer to train up the dog and campaign it for them. They want the bragging rights, trophies, and ribbons. Some like to take that same dog hunting, some like to watch it at the trials they can attend, some like both.

[richardt]

for here in the NW I would say at least 80% of the trial dogs do not hunt real birds.  The ones that do are the ones that are kicking you know what at the trials.

So are you saying that 80% of those dog at the trials, are trained just for trials? If they are, that's incredible. Why go through all that time and effort to train a bird dog, if you're not training it with the purpose of hunting it?

I mean, I'm going to participate in trials, but only as an aside, and to help "prove" Drakes abilities/trainability in case I end up trying to breed him. My main purpose of training him is to have a hunting dog/buddy. Anything else is just a secondary benefit.


Sent from my iPhone

If you're doing AKC hunt tests and NAVHDA you are not competing in field trials.

The deal with hunting and field trials is you have to understand that in order for the dog to make a name for itself and advance to bigger events it has to be campaigned and that means it spends a lot of time on the road going to event after event. For a lot of guys deeply into that it's all about the game and the dogs, hunting is secondary.

It's a broad brush statement, but it's also important to realize that at the top level you have lawyers, doctors...people with money, who basically buy a dog and pay a trainer/field trialer to train up the dog and campaign it for them. They want the bragging rights, trophies, and ribbons. Some like to take that same dog hunting, some like to watch it at the trials they can attend, some like both.

Huh, I thought they were all types of "field trials", but I'm new to this


As for those who do as you explained, to each his own I guess...


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[jetjockey]

There are lots of "field trials".  But only a few where you can put FC or AmFC in front of the dogs name.  Aspenbud pretty much nailed it.  Big time trials are a wealthy mans sport.  They go through lots of dogs to find that one who is capable to compete at the highest level. Unfortunately that discourages a lot of people who don't get placements with dogs they think are pretty good. 

Then you have people like me. Poor bastages who get lucky with a dog who can compete, and then become even more broke!  ;-).   If I was wealthy, I'd have several trial dogs that I hunt as well.  For me, it's about the dogs and the bird work. AsI get older, killing birds comes secondary.

[richardt]

for here in the NW I would say at least 80% of the trial dogs do not hunt real birds.  The ones that do are the ones that are kicking you know what at the trials.

So are you saying that 80% of those dog at the trials, are trained just for trials? If they are, that's incredible. Why go through all that time and effort to train a bird dog, if you're not training it with the purpose of hunting it?

I mean, I'm going to participate in trials, but only as an aside, and to help "prove" Drakes abilities/trainability in case I end up trying to breed him. My main purpose of training him is to have a hunting dog/buddy. Anything else is just a secondary benefit.


Sent from my iPhone

If you're doing AKC hunt tests and NAVHDA you are not competing in field trials.

The deal with hunting and field trials is you have to understand that in order for the dog to make a name for itself and advance to bigger events it has to be campaigned and that means it spends a lot of time on the road going to event after event. For a lot of guys deeply into that it's all about the game and the dogs, hunting is secondary.

It's a broad brush statement, but it's also important to realize that at the top level you have lawyers, doctors...people with money, who basically buy a dog and pay a trainer/field trialer to train up the dog and campaign it for them. They want the bragging rights, trophies, and ribbons. Some like to take that same dog hunting, some like to watch it at the trials they can attend, some like both.

Huh, I thought they were all types of "field trials", but I'm new to this


As for those who do as you explained, to each his own I guess...


Sent from my iPhone

[AspenBud]

for here in the NW I would say at least 80% of the trial dogs do not hunt real birds.  The ones that do are the ones that are kicking you know what at the trials.

So are you saying that 80% of those dog at the trials, are trained just for trials? If they are, that's incredible. Why go through all that time and effort to train a bird dog, if you're not training it with the purpose of hunting it?

I mean, I'm going to participate in trials, but only as an aside, and to help "prove" Drakes abilities/trainability in case I end up trying to breed him. My main purpose of training him is to have a hunting dog/buddy. Anything else is just a secondary benefit.


Sent from my iPhone

If you're doing AKC hunt tests and NAVHDA you are not competing in field trials.

The deal with hunting and field trials is you have to understand that in order for the dog to make a name for itself and advance to bigger events it has to be campaigned and that means it spends a lot of time on the road going to event after event. For a lot of guys deeply into that it's all about the game and the dogs, hunting is secondary.

It's a broad brush statement, but it's also important to realize that at the top level you have lawyers, doctors...people with money, who basically buy a dog and pay a trainer/field trialer to train up the dog and campaign it for them. They want the bragging rights, trophies, and ribbons. Some like to take that same dog hunting, some like to watch it at the trials they can attend, some like both.

Huh, I thought they were all types of "field trials", but I'm new to this


As for those who do as you explained, to each his own I guess...


Sent from my iPhone

Hunt tests are hunt tests, field trials are field trials. One measures the quality of dogs according to a standard, the other is looking for the extreme and can be more subjective.

Field trial dogs are generally going to be a whole lot more dog in terms of range and run. You won't see a show Pointer that earns an MH at a hunt test running in American Field, they just don't have the drive or physical ability to keep up.

Which is better can be debated. Both help people produce quality dogs.