Washington’s wolf experience unlike rest of the West

[pianoman9701]

I'm certainly not advocating that we partake in illegal activities and I won't. But, we need to stay on our elected officials about this. Make sure they know what's been going on and how the Wildlife Commission and WDFW have been transforming over the years.

[bobcat]

When wolves become extremely abundant throughout the state, there WILL be a hunting season for wolves. It may not be an official season, but it will exist I have no doubt.

[huntnphool]

When wolves become extremely abundant throughout the state, there WILL be a hunting season for wolves. It may not be an official season, but it will exist I have no doubt.

 What's that supposed to mean?

[bobcat]

When wolves become extremely abundant throughout the state, there WILL be a hunting season for wolves. It may not be an official season, but it will exist I have no doubt.

 What's that supposed to mean?

Unofficial, year round open season, not listed in the hunting reg's.

[Curly]

Does anyone really expect that legal wolf hunting will ever be allowed in this state? No way will it happen. The voter initiative process will be used to prevent wolf hunting just like it ended hounds and bear baiting  (if wdfw would even allow hunting of wolves).

[pianoman9701]

When wolves become extremely abundant throughout the state, there WILL be a hunting season for wolves. It may not be an official season, but it will exist I have no doubt.

Certainly, if a season doesn't appear, some will take management into their own hands. It's a shame that we even have to consider it. If things continue in this direction, I may have to move to another state. It's starting to feel like the writing's on the wall for hunting in WA. 

[bobcat]

There will definitely be an increase in the number of coyote hunters out in the woods. 

[huntnphool]

When wolves become extremely abundant throughout the state, there WILL be a hunting season for wolves. It may not be an official season, but it will exist I have no doubt.

 What's that supposed to mean?

Unofficial, year round open season, not listed in the hunting reg's.

 1) In who's opinion? Who draws the line on how many wolves equates to "extremely abundant"? In a lot of people's opinions the numbers are already there.

 2) In case you have not noticed, there already is a "unofficial" year round season.

 3) You are one of those, on this site, that believe we need more wolves in this state, subtraction by addition remember?

[huntnphool]

When wolves become extremely abundant throughout the state, there WILL be a hunting season for wolves. It may not be an official season, but it will exist I have no doubt.

It's starting to feel like the writing's on the wall for hunting in WA. 

 It's too bad more of you didn't attend the proposal meetings or read through the proposal. Some of us copied and pasted the wording directly from the proposal to threads on this site, easily explaining exactly what they are doing. Now some are beginning to figure it out......the wording and direction outlined in the proposal was not put there by accident! It should have been crystal clear to every hunter in this state, what was going to happen!

[grundy53]

Yup, exactly.

[bobcat]

When wolves become extremely abundant throughout the state, there WILL be a hunting season for wolves. It may not be an official season, but it will exist I have no doubt.

 What's that supposed to mean?

Unofficial, year round open season, not listed in the hunting reg's.

 1) In who's opinion? Who draws the line on how many wolves equates to "extremely abundant"? In a lot of people's opinions the numbers are already there.

 2) In case you have not noticed, there already is a "unofficial" year round season.

 3) You are one of those, on this site, that believe we need more wolves in this state, subtraction by addition remember?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I "believe we need more wolves?" Where did you come up with that? My preference would be no wolves. But they're here, they're a native species, and they're protected by the ESA. I'm not sure what choice we have in whether we have wolves in the state or not. The wolves came here, and they're re-populating the state. It's still unknown how many we'll have and what parts of the state will have them and which parts will not.

I have no clue what "subtraction by addition" means. Next time can you write in plain English instead of riddles?

[Curly]

I think most on this site figured it out long ago. I think we are a very informed group because of all that gets shared here. Sure, some may have slightly different opinions but mostly it is splitting hairs.  I don't know of anyone on this site that thinks there should be more wolves or that the state wolf plan is a good one.

[bearpaw]

If cougar were managed better wolf predation wouldn't be so additive to current cougar predation. 1 cougar and 1 wolf eat about the same amount. Currently WA has roughly 4,000 cougar, that is double the cougar numbers that we had a few decades ago. Studies have shown that 1 cougar eats 25 to 50 deer per year, so 4,000 cougar are eating 100,000+ deer, elk, moose, sheep, goats, caribou per year.

There could be room for the proposed number of wolves without much impact on our game herds if WDFW would trim the cougar population back to what it used to be and not allow the wolves to over populate. 

[wolfbait]

If cougar were managed better wolf predation wouldn't be so additive to current cougar predation. 1 cougar and 1 wolf eat about the same amount. Currently WA has roughly 4,000 cougar, that is double the cougar numbers that we had a few decades ago. Studies have shown that 1 cougar eats 25 to 50 deer per year, so 4,000 cougar are eating 100,000+ deer, elk, moose, sheep, goats, caribou per year.

There could be room for the proposed number of wolves without much impact on our game herds if WDFW would trim the cougar population back to what it used to be and not allow the wolves to over populate. 

I don't think managing cougars will be the answer, sure it would help some but look at the impact of wolves in Alaska, Canada etc. where controlled wolf hunts are needed to save some game herds.

As for the proposed wolf numbers, look at WDFW's efforts at confirming wolf packs/BP's, the Okanogan is a good example with WDFW claiming every wolf sighting is part of the lookout pack.

How do you estimate the proposed amount of wolves if you are counting BP's for delisting? WA could have a few thousand wolves at the rate WDFW is confirming BP's, one BP times two equals thirty wolves, plus how many more that are not counted because they are not a breeding pair??? How many wolves will WA actually have by the time WDFW does confirm 15 BP's? 

How has WDFW been held accountable in the confirmation of BP's/wolf packs? Who will hold WDFW accountable in confirming the impact on the game herds?


70% Human Kill Needed to Reduce Wolf Population
Two months after the 2008-2012 F&G Wolf plan was adopted by the Commission, wolf preservationists petitioned Montana Judge Donald Molloy to halt the 2008 wolf hunt before it began FWS wolf expert Dr. David Mech responded in a written statement to the court: “...28- 50% of a wolf population must be killed by humans per year (on top of natural mortality) to even hold a wolf population stationery.”(emphasis added)


F&G Knew <20% Harvest Would Not Reduce Wolves

Idaho biologists were aware that five scientists conducting a six year study of sport hunting and trapping of wolves in Alaska’s Brooks Range recorded removal of only ~29% of the wolves each year in addition to all other causes of death. They also knew that the liberal hunting and trapping seasons with multiple bag limits did not even reduce the rate of wolf population increase.
In his testimony to the Court, Mech explained: “Every year, most wolf populations almost double in the spring through the birth of pups [Mech 1970]. For example in May 2008, there will not be 1,500 wolves, but
3,000! (Wolf population estimates are usually made in winter when animals are at their nadir [lowest number]. This approach serves to provide conservative estimates and further insure that management remains conservative).”
Read more@ http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2035%20July-Nov%202009.pdf

[pianoman9701]

Predator management is a broader picture than just one animal. However, when you have stable ungulate populations and introduce an additional apex predator, then the success rates of all of the predators is multiplied. We need across-the-board effective predator management and, as I've stated previously in this thread, I think wolves have been brought on with the idea that such management will never take place.