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Author Topic: "Non-Federal Waters"  (Read 502 times)

Offline Fl0und3rz

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"Non-Federal Waters"
« on: June 07, 2019, 11:14:34 AM »
What are "Non-Federal Waters?"

WA DOL exempts vessels from registration such as:

- Canoes, kayaks, or vessels that don't have a motor or sail (strictly human powered).
- Vessels less than 16 feet long with a motor of 10 horsepower or less, if used on non-federal waters only.

https://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/registerboat.html


RCW 88.02.570 - Exemptions describes registration exemptions as follows.

Quote
(8) A vessel under sixteen feet in overall length that has no propulsion machinery of any type or that is not used on waters subject to the jurisdiction of the United States or on the high seas beyond the territorial seas for vessels owned in the United States and are powered by propulsion machinery of ten or less horsepower;
(9) A vessel with no propulsion machinery of any type for which the primary mode of propulsion is human power;

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=88.02.570


Quote
WAC 308-93-030 - Vessels subject to excise tax, registration and titling exemptions.

(a) Vessels under sixteen feet in overall length are:
(i) Powered by ten horsepower or less; and
(ii) Used on waters where there is no federal jurisdiction.

. . .

(d) Vessels powered by human power, such as canoes, kayaks, and rowboats.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=308-93&full=true


I cannot find examples or a clear illustration of what constitutes "Federal Waters."


What federal jurisdiction suffices to make a body of water or a portion "Federal Waters?"  I presume the easy case of Coast Guard for areas like the sound, coastal water, Columbia, etc. make such "Federal Waters."

But what about areas of rivers passing through National Forests, National Parks, and the Lakes therein?  I presume that the USFS or NPS has sufficient jurisdiction such that it makes these bodies "Federal Waters."


Help a noob out.


Thanks.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2019, 11:19:13 AM »
Look up navigable waters. I believe that is what they are talking about when they say Federal waters.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline Special T

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2019, 11:34:19 AM »
I belive inland near you the Columbia and Pendorille rivers need it. Basically any river or lake tradition ally used in transport/commerce. So for inland lakes, not necessary but anything that connects to the ocean or sound? Yes

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Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2019, 11:43:57 AM »
I belive inland near you the Columbia and Pendorille rivers need it. Basically any river or lake tradition ally used in transport/commerce. So for inland lakes, not necessary but anything that connects to the ocean or sound? Yes

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Yeah, that's the kind of traditional definition based on "navigable waters" I am seeing after humtulips tip.  I still wonder about National Forest Lakes and Rivers that don't fit that "navigable waters" narrow subset.

Thank you both.

Offline Special T

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2019, 11:52:50 AM »
I found a list once. Most rivers on the west side fall under this, much fewer on the east side. Probably the Yakima and snake rivers as well

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Offline Humptulips

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 11:53:45 AM »
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Navigable+Waters

the U.S. Supreme Court in 1979 created four tests for determining what constitutes navigable waters. Established in Kaiser Aetna v. United States, 444 U.S. 164, 100 S. Ct. 383, 62 L. Ed. 2d 332, the tests ask whether the body of water (1) is subject to the ebb and flow of the tide, (2) connects with a continuous interstate waterway, (3) has navigable capacity, and (4) is actually navigable.
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Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2019, 11:55:56 AM »
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Navigable+Waters

the U.S. Supreme Court in 1979 created four tests for determining what constitutes navigable waters. Established in Kaiser Aetna v. United States, 444 U.S. 164, 100 S. Ct. 383, 62 L. Ed. 2d 332, the tests ask whether the body of water (1) is subject to the ebb and flow of the tide, (2) connects with a continuous interstate waterway, (3) has navigable capacity, and (4) is actually navigable.

The CFR appears to include waters that were once "navigable," notwithstanding current use or navigability, such as it appears to include, rivers beyond the first dam from the coast.

:dunno:

Offline Henrydog

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2019, 01:19:54 PM »
In Wa, if it flows to the ocean of the Columbia it is a Federal waterway.  IE...Lake Wenacthee feeds Wenatchee River feeds Columia = Federal Waterway.  3 miles away is self contained Fish Lake= not a federal waterway

Offline Jake Dogfish

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2019, 02:26:45 PM »
So do you need to register rafts kayaks etc. If you use them in federal waters?

Offline Special T

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2019, 02:52:44 PM »
So do you need to register rafts kayaks etc. If you use them in federal waters?
No only motor powered

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Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2019, 02:55:02 PM »
So do you need to register rafts kayaks etc. If you use them in federal waters?
No only motor powered

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Greater than 10 hp or 16 feet or greater.

Offline Gopher

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Re: "Non-Federal Waters"
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2019, 11:51:49 AM »
And it says "motors" not just internal combustion motors so even an electric motor is fair game on navigable waters.

 


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