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Author Topic: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery  (Read 5094 times)

Offline Archry

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2020, 11:48:46 AM »
They took away elk tags for youth, disabled,  and 65+? My 9yr old son just passed hunters ed. Ouch

Offline bobcat

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2020, 11:52:57 AM »
I believe bobcat and I said this before, we have to figure out a way to get the natives to manage and work w Wdfw.  One way seems very radical but it’s a way, open all Yakima gmu’s up for any weapon, any sex deer and elk! Sounds nuts but if we kill off everything, you’d think the tribes would have to wake up!

Exactly. What's the point of having two separate seasons and regulations for two different groups of people in the same area? If the WDFW would just adopt the Yakama's seasons and limits (no limits) for us, the tribe would be forced to begin talking and cooperating with the state to set reasonable regulations that would work better for all of us.

Offline hunter399

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2020, 11:53:08 AM »
Who cares about them cow elk .You guys can go shoot a bull. It will be just fine.
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
Wrote by hunter399

Offline Bango skank

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2020, 12:01:13 PM »
I believe bobcat and I said this before, we have to figure out a way to get the natives to manage and work w Wdfw.  One way seems very radical but it’s a way, open all Yakima gmu’s up for any weapon, any sex deer and elk! Sounds nuts but if we kill off everything, you’d think the tribes would have to wake up!

Exactly. What's the point of having two separate seasons and regulations for two different groups of people in the same area? If the WDFW would just adopt the Yakama's seasons and limits (no limits) for us, the tribe would be forced to begin talking and cooperating with the state to set reasonable regulations that would work better for all of us.

The samson option.  I like it.   :tup:

Offline str8meat

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2020, 08:41:32 PM »
They may have just realized how they have been overselling the herds for years. Draw system only no draw no hunt buy a beef.
watch yer top knot

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2020, 09:50:03 PM »
Pretty soon instead of the east siders complaining about the west siders, it will be reversed!  We can hunt 3 point or better, OTC in lots of units.  I can see it now! 
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline RobinHoodlum

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2020, 02:47:19 PM »
The commission decision on final regs isn't until Friday, but I'm afraid we are seeing the die being cast for ALL future antlerless harvest becoming draw only.

If you look at the graphs on page 8 & 12 of Brock's presentation, he's projecting even limited cow harvest keeping these 2 populations under objective over the next few years (is it a coincidence his graph spans next 3-year package?). Given the base population sizes, there's something not right about this and I'd be interested to know what assumptions were used. Regardless, expect draw only for the next 3 years as well.

Then, think to yourself, will they actually return to OTC tags after that or just keep enjoying the extra revenue coming from antlerless draw fees? Further, staying with draw only allows game managers (and others) to feel like populations are being managed with more "precision". Which is farce when there are other unknown/unanticipated significant mortality sources (tribal, damage, predators).

I generally try to be optimistic, but we dont seem to be living in an era of liberalizing harvest opportunity. So, archers better be prepared to rally or kiss OTC cow tags goodbye for good.

Some of these have already been pointed out, but a few things that really suck about this:
  • Virtually no data to support this decision for Yakima herd (and no plan to improve survey methods)
  • Level of cow harvest by tribes unknown and will continue unabated if not increase
  • Proportion of cow harvest under the auspices of "damage" is at an all time high (27% for the Clock) and will soon be the primary source of cow mortality
  • Between 2015 & 2017, the department issued hundreds of modern and muzzy cow tags EVERY year in EACH GMU for many of these same GMUs, which is how we got here in the first place
  • Most other weapon users (and even some archers for Pete's sake!) either ignore or choose not to consider these facts and support these changes
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 03:43:16 PM by RobinHoodlum »

Offline Ridgerunner

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2020, 03:33:27 PM »
Friday is just a rubber stamping.  What you see is what we are going to get.  This is state is something else. 

Offline gasman

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2020, 05:35:18 PM »
Bad Ju-ju here with permits......

Once they go to permits for AR Henry, it will never go back....... Cam6you say, "Money Grab"......
I knew you could......

This is what they did to us with the spike only rule, then bull permits, then increase bull permits. It was suppose to go back when herd made it's rebound, but never did be ausenthey would lose the $$$$$$$
Gasman


It's 5 O'clock somewhere.......

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #69 on: April 07, 2020, 08:53:29 PM »
So... here is my thought on this. I agree with making it a draw for 3-5 years for archery to hunt cow elk in those units. I feel like the modern antler-less permits numbers should be lowered as well. That being said.. I also feel that the bull tags need to be lowered. Reason I'm saying this.. a cow elk gives birth to 1-2 calves a year, mainly 1. A mature bull elk can service/breed 20-40 cow elk. So actually having more mature/breeding age bulls is going to help a lot. I'm not saying, hey lets just kill spikes and cow elk.. but I'm saying that the math shows that a single bull can create more life in a single breeding season than a single cow by a LARGE margin. I hate to bring this other subject up now too... but some serious predator control in those units would be VERY helpful for the deer and the elk. I mean we have more predators in the woods now than we have in a LONG time and its definitely part of the negative impact that we see on the herds. IMO those units need more people hunting bears and cougars. Not to get this argument going either.. but we need to push to open hunting of the wolves in some way, shape, or form.
SERIOUS QUESTION: We have all been talking about the predators and how they are destroying our game herds,Myself included.How many other states have the wintering grounds locked up so hunters can't hunt the predators when and where the herds need us the most?Every year we all see """winter kills"" in the wintering fields where not much of a winter even existed.
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Offline ribka

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2020, 09:41:00 PM »
No mention of the elephant in there room and its impact on elk: tribal hunting


So... here is my thought on this. I agree with making it a draw for 3-5 years for archery to hunt cow elk in those units. I feel like the modern antler-less permits numbers should be lowered as well. That being said.. I also feel that the bull tags need to be lowered. Reason I'm saying this.. a cow elk gives birth to 1-2 calves a year, mainly 1. A mature bull elk can service/breed 20-40 cow elk. So actually having more mature/breeding age bulls is going to help a lot. I'm not saying, hey lets just kill spikes and cow elk.. but I'm saying that the math shows that a single bull can create more life in a single breeding season than a single cow by a LARGE margin. I hate to bring this other subject up now too... but some serious predator control in those units would be VERY helpful for the deer and the elk. I mean we have more predators in the woods now than we have in a LONG time and its definitely part of the negative impact that we see on the herds. IMO those units need more people hunting bears and cougars. Not to get this argument going either.. but we need to push to open hunting of the wolves in some way, shape, or form.
SERIOUS QUESTION: We have all been talking about the predators and how they are destroying our game herds,Myself included.How many other states have the wintering grounds locked up so hunters can't hunt the predators when and where the herds need us the most?Every year we all see """winter kills"" in the wintering fields where not much of a winter even existed.

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2020, 09:53:31 PM »
No mention of the elephant in there room and its impact on elk: tribal hunting


So... here is my thought on this. I agree with making it a draw for 3-5 years for archery to hunt cow elk in those units. I feel like the modern antler-less permits numbers should be lowered as well. That being said.. I also feel that the bull tags need to be lowered. Reason I'm saying this.. a cow elk gives birth to 1-2 calves a year, mainly 1. A mature bull elk can service/breed 20-40 cow elk. So actually having more mature/breeding age bulls is going to help a lot. I'm not saying, hey lets just kill spikes and cow elk.. but I'm saying that the math shows that a single bull can create more life in a single breeding season than a single cow by a LARGE margin. I hate to bring this other subject up now too... but some serious predator control in those units would be VERY helpful for the deer and the elk. I mean we have more predators in the woods now than we have in a LONG time and its definitely part of the negative impact that we see on the herds. IMO those units need more people hunting bears and cougars. Not to get this argument going either.. but we need to push to open hunting of the wolves in some way, shape, or form.
SERIOUS QUESTION: We have all been talking about the predators and how they are destroying our game herds,Myself included.How many other states have the wintering grounds locked up so hunters can't hunt the predators when and where the herds need us the most?Every year we all see """winter kills"" in the wintering fields where not much of a winter even existed.
:yeah: the state won’t even acknowledge the room, much less the animal in it!
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline buglebrush

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #72 on: April 07, 2020, 10:43:03 PM »
Or the big elephant in the room.......depredation permits. I'd be willing to bet more antlerless elk are killed on these than all otc and permit harvests combined....across all weapons.

100% agree.  And the real answer is to kill more predators.  I'm tired of the knee jerk reaction to always be to limit opportunity.   :bash:

Offline SuperX

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Re: Who is ready to draw cow permits for archery
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2020, 07:33:59 AM »
Make it draw forever, just remove the 'spike only' part and put 3pt or better.

Take those quality hunts and dumpster them, they are a scam. 

 


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