Author Topic: Finding good "node"  (Read 14566 times)

Offline buckfvr

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Re: Finding good "node"
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2020, 08:41:26 AM »
Research and see what Bryan Litz has to say about this.  You will find he is in complete disagreement with you.  Contact him if you must, but not according to me, but according to him, you and everyone else who makes this claim and or supports it is wrong (and I agree), as it is just not possible.  Contact him.

Offline Stein

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Re: Finding good "node"
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2020, 09:03:25 AM »
For me, a good chrono really helps as it takes aiming out of the first half of load development compared with the ladder test.  Raw data, no variables like wind, me shooting to deal with.  It also gives a good velocity number to double check at the end with actual drop tests, usually it's on the money or very close depending on your chrono.

I shoot 5 shots from low powder to high powder and find a charge with low ES, hopefully one with decent ES on either side.

From there, start with the max length I can fit in my mag and shoot groups at -3, -6, -9... thousandths shorter until I get a group I'm happy with, again hopefully the groups on either side are decent as well.

I went through cases and primers but won't do that again, Lapua and Fed match or BR2s and call it good.  I also tried crimp, no crimp and found crimping sucks for consistency which was surprising.  I also tried different sizing dies and settled with neck sizing, no button.

I do all my development at 100 yards, I'm not a subscriber of the theory where 100 yards somehow is different than other distances.  Final trip is just to verify actual drop at long distances to make sure my chrono velocity is accurate and I 100% have my dope at distances I would shoot an animal at.  100 yards is easy to shoot, easy to see through the spotting scope and take a picture and use software to calculate groups without having to retrieve the target.

I spent hundreds of rounds dinking around until I got serious and did some research, thought about it and ended up pretty much doing what people that know what they are doing do.

Offline 7mmfan

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Re: Finding good "node"
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2020, 09:20:00 AM »
So this problem has since been resolved for me, but the information is good. Someone will benefit from this down the road hopefully.

What ended up being my main problem was an extremely finicky rifle that did not like most powder/bullet combos. I literally shot 1000 rounds of ammo in very strategic increments and calculated changes in components. I finally changed to a new bullet and instantly had accuracy. Like sub MOA accuracy in a gun that I'd never gotten better than 2" groups at 100 yards. It rattled me. I feel that my bouncing around and seeking of advice when I was doing essentially the right process was just because I couldn't get accuracy from a rifle that didn't like what I was putting through it. When I found what it liked, it was easy.
I hunt, therefore I am.... I fish, therefore I lie.

Offline TheArmoredShop

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Re: Finding good "node"
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2020, 11:03:55 AM »
Everyone has their method. Mines tried and true, takes weeks to do properly but the results are there. One variable at a time. My good friend was a marine scout sniper for a decade and this was his method, and it saved many lives. You need 100% trust in your ammunition.

Personally I never cared what I threw down range, but now Iíll never shoot at any animal with factory ammo. My ammunition is now a constant vs a variable. Any variable I can remove from the situation is a win.

To do this properly, I buy everything in bulk, all in the same lot. Usually 40 lbs of H1000 same lot, same lot 5,000 primers, Same 5k in 212 ELD-X.

All my Peterson brass is ran through a concentricity gauge, neck trimmed for conformity, trimmed to SAAMI, weighed and sorted, and then annealed. Case prepping usually takes 2-3, 8 hour days before I even get ready to reload per 100 cases.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Finding good "node"
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2020, 11:32:02 AM »
I find ladders are better if I do the seating test first.   Its a little easier for me at 150 to 200 yards and start with moderate load.   

Also if load development at 100 you canít see positive compensation that helps at 1000.   Imo  Load develop at what you shoot - 600-1000 is good for me.   

Offline TheArmoredShop

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Re: Finding good "node"
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2020, 01:05:44 PM »
For sure. Farther out you go, the growth is obviously exponential.

If you look at my picture above of my 800 yard ladder, you can see #8 was horrible and it was only 1.3 grains of powder higher than 7, and lower than #9. I even loaded three more to see and it was all over, so for whatever reason, my rifle HATED it


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