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Author Topic: NW Sportsman: Washington 2020 Buck Prospects  (Read 3044 times)

Offline bigmacc

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Re: NW Sportsman: Washington 2020 Buck Prospects
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2020, 10:08:03 AM »
YES, The problem is the cumulative impact of predation from all sources, including humans!  :twocents:

But here's the bigger problem, predators that are not managed by hunting will multiply to the point that the available prey base will support. Even if humans were to end all hunting seasons predators would likely increase to the point that the prey base will support, when the prey base drops low enough then predator numbers will decline due to a lack of food, starvation of adult predators, and lack of successful recruitment of young predators. But if prey numbers increase then predator numbers are going to increase. So even if all hunting was ended, the unregulated predator numbers will result in the same low numbers of prey that can survive. You can all give up your hunting you want, but the end result will not amount to a great increase in ungulate numbers, its just that simple!  :twocents:

 :yeah:

This is why I stated a page or so ago the only way I would support any reductions in mule deer seasons(phools every other year idea specifically) or any other hunter take away would need to involve compromises, wdfw would need to come up with some sort of plan to aggressively lower predator numbers, at least by half on bear and cats and aggressively take on the coyote issue by possibly bringing back some sort of bounty or incentive system. If compromises, or a fair give and take concerning the over population of predators are not addressed, then we have a different story.

Offline highcountry_hunter

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Re: NW Sportsman: Washington 2020 Buck Prospects
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2020, 02:00:22 PM »
YES, The problem is the cumulative impact of predation from all sources, including humans!  :twocents:

But here's the bigger problem, predators that are not managed by hunting will multiply to the point that the available prey base will support. Even if humans were to end all hunting seasons predators would likely increase to the point that the prey base will support, when the prey base drops low enough then predator numbers will decline due to a lack of food, starvation of adult predators, and lack of successful recruitment of young predators. But if prey numbers increase then predator numbers are going to increase. So even if all hunting was ended, the unregulated predator numbers will result in the same low numbers of prey that can survive. You can all give up your hunting you want, but the end result will not amount to a great increase in ungulate numbers, its just that simple!  :twocents:

 :yeah:

This is why I stated a page or so ago the only way I would support any reductions in mule deer seasons(phools every other year idea specifically) or any other hunter take away would need to involve compromises, wdfw would need to come up with some sort of plan to aggressively lower predator numbers, at least by half on bear and cats and aggressively take on the coyote issue by possibly bringing back some sort of bounty or incentive system. If compromises, or a fair give and take concerning the over population of predators are not addressed, then we have a different story.

Agreed. I agree that if hunters give in to one of the above mentioned ideas (every other year, drawings...) full rights will never be restored. WDFW, who only has a job because of sportsmen, would have to be willing to help with the problem opposed to hunters being the only ones making sacrifices.

Offline RileyH

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Re: NW Sportsman: Washington 2020 Buck Prospects
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2020, 11:29:35 AM »
After spending the last 24 days in the field, I can tell you he is way off base in central WA.   :twocents:

I have never hunted so hard.....to see so few deer.

This is interesting to me as I've been over to our "spot" in Okanogan more times this spring/summer than ever before, and I've seen way more doe and fawn than any other time in memory. Even commented to my father that the observable Muley fawn survival rate seems really high this year. However, I also saw A LOT of black bear, coyote, and our neighbors say the wolves have decimated the whitetail down low although I haven not seen one yet.

One of the big problems in Okanogan is the upper-crust of the region (no secret who they are) close off a lot of land access, put in a lot of work to keep the animals on private, and generally seem to be wanton poachers and flaunt the law every season with no reprimand.

Offline bigmacc

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Re: NW Sportsman: Washington 2020 Buck Prospects
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2020, 11:53:25 AM »
After spending the last 24 days in the field, I can tell you he is way off base in central WA.   :twocents:

I have never hunted so hard.....to see so few deer.

This is interesting to me as I've been over to our "spot" in Okanogan more times this spring/summer than ever before, and I've seen way more doe and fawn than any other time in memory. Even commented to my father that the observable Muley fawn survival rate seems really high this year. However, I also saw A LOT of black bear, coyote, and our neighbors say the wolves have decimated the whitetail down low although I haven not seen one yet.

One of the big problems in Okanogan is the upper-crust of the region (no secret who they are) close off a lot of land access, put in a lot of work to keep the animals on private, and generally seem to be wanton poachers and flaunt the law every season with no reprimand.

I think it depends on where your at :dunno: Okanogan county is huge and parts of it are doing ok I think. I have friends who hunted the Okanogan valley last year after hunting the Methow for the first 3 or 4 days of the season. Those days they spent in the Methow they saw a total of 6 or 7 deer between 5 of them(not counting town deer), they got fed up and went east into the Okanogan and ended up going 5 for 5 in 3 days time I believe, a whole different valley but only an hour or so away. The Okanogan valley is huge itself so Im not giving away any secrets here by being specific. They are not having the same issues as the Methow and they have a thriving "local" herd.... :twocents:

Offline ibuyre

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Re: NW Sportsman: Washington 2020 Buck Prospects
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2020, 01:07:05 PM »
It's not just a east side problem. It's state wide. So far this season, scouting and multi season elk, ML deer hunting. I have been in the field in 4 west side units for about 20 days total, in the field at sunrise, hiking and glassing all day and looking for sign. Other than getting on elk. I have seen far more bear and cat sign than deer. I have seen (couldn't get a shot) several coyotes and tons of sign. Even had a Game warden I ran into ask me if I had seen anything? I said just some sign. There reply was, this year they are finding more Bear sign than anything else. And same hear. The predators have ran a muck. Last year elk hunting (west side) I found more cougar kills than live elk.

   Deer hunting a area when I was seeing 10-20 deer a day last year. This year, I found sneak trails where people have been driving around the gates to get into the area. In 2 days in there the most I saw was 2 doe's. Saw cat sign, and saw a cats face for just a second, it was looking at me and gone in a flash. This year in the woods is making me a little sick.... so many predators and people breaking the rules (driving in closed areas).  Who knows if they where doing that day or night (I should go back and put up some game cams), I have ran into evidence (and turned it in) of people driving and spotlighting in closed rd areas. Poachers are real.

I think predators are the top of the list, and there's currently no way to control them in this state, because rules.... Feel good rules that cause animals to get eaten alive, and some to go extinct Forest Caribou. We need to try and educate people, talk to people, and get some laws changed. Or watch our animals mostly die off.

 


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