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Author Topic: Mulling it over. Thoughts?  (Read 4483 times)

Offline T-Dozzer

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Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« on: November 04, 2020, 09:36:55 PM »
I've been hunting 30 years. Grew up on the Palouse chasing birds. We (Dad) always had phenomenal dogs. Time went on.. I left for school/work & chasing the ditch chickens got less & less and I switched to bigger critters. Dad is 72 and lost what will be his last dog 2 seasons ago.
I'm in North Bend now, but we still have property & lots of access on the Palouse.
I'm an upland hunter at heart & want to get back into it. Including a proper upland dog. Both for me & for our family.
I'm fairly familiar with the tremendous amount of work/investment a good bird dog takes.
My question is... is there any opportunity to train a dog in the Snoqualmie valley & get it on birds or would I have to keep driving East just to keep it on track for training.
Im fine hunting planted birds for the dogs sake, but it does not personally interest me from a hunting perspective.

TIA
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 10:10:30 PM by T-Dozzer »

Offline 2MANY

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2020, 11:50:29 PM »
When I raise a bird dog I raise pheasants too.
Problem solved.

Offline bracer40

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2020, 04:40:16 AM »
Iíve decided I wonít raise another dog unless I have the right amount of space to raise homer pigeons along with the dog. You might be in a place where you could do that AND train in the valley.
ďJust give me a comfortable couch, a dog, a good book, and a woman. Then if you can get the dog to go somewhere and read the book, I might have a little fun.Ē
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Offline MR5x5

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2020, 07:41:41 AM »
Canine Country Club out in Fall City is worth a look - the valley does a lot of duck dogs - but a buddy of mine had them train up his Musterlander some years back and he was very happy with them.

Regarding training - I've never formally trained any of my dogs and they have all been pheasant hunting machines. I do hunt them pretty much every other week during the season and they get daily big exercise that includes communicating with them. I'm currently running English Setters out of Cook Canyon but have also ran Wirehairs and short hairs.  Hunting is in their blood.  In my opinion, if you can get them solid with basic come, sit, stay you are 90+% there.  You might not win the "pinky's out" style contest but you will get birds.  You grew up in the Palouse, so you know where the birds are in this state.

Don't overthink it.  Get good blood lines.

Good luck out there.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 09:21:43 AM by MR5x5 »

Offline merkelman

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2020, 09:18:33 AM »
Sagebrush Gun Dogs is no longer training as Scott retired.  But Colockum Gun Dogs is a great option.  They are located in Ellensburg, WA and does a great job.  Well worth having a pro get your dog started. 
Typically replies within a few hours
Send Message
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Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2020, 09:50:49 AM »
Thanks, guys.
Probably leaning towards a lab, but entertaining a GSH. Not sure I can keep up with their energy though. :chuckle:

Offline Dhoey07

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2020, 10:16:21 AM »
Raise a family dog and take it out.  Most will pick it up without formal training.  IF they don't, you'll have a nice family dog around the house.

Offline Caseyd

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2020, 10:24:49 AM »
Stillwater site in carnation releases birds, not to far from your house. Not my preferred upland hunting but the dogs never seem to mind  :chuckle:

Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2020, 10:26:27 AM »
Stillwater site in carnation releases birds, not to far from your house. Not my preferred upland hunting but the dogs never seem to mind  :chuckle:

Haven't been there in years. Was busy, butbthstbisva not a bad idea. Thanks

Offline Special T

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2020, 10:29:28 AM »
HappyGilmore on here is part of a training club that utilizes Cherry valley. Another group meets in monroe HRC hunting retriver club i belive is the name. Join one of these groups and you wont have to do it  alone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

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Offline MR5x5

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2020, 10:31:57 AM »
Stillwater site in carnation releases birds, not to far from your house. Not my preferred upland hunting but the dogs never seem to mind  :chuckle:

Haven't been there in years. Was busy, butbthstbisva not a bad idea. Thanks

Just be sure to bring extra safety glasses, a flack jacket, helmet and a stealth cam to watch your vehicle!  :bash:

Offline Birdguy

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2020, 11:03:52 AM »
HappyGilmore on here is part of a training club that utilizes Cherry valley. Another group meets in monroe HRC hunting retriver club i belive is the name. Join one of these groups and you wont have to do it  alone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 :yeah: Have a good friend who lived in Issaquah and trained champion GSP out of that area. A small flock of homers is a huge asset. I know a guy who will have other gamebirds on occasion  8). But I do not see an big issues with your plan, you only live once if you have access to property in bird country I would say do it!

Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2020, 11:12:37 AM »
HappyGilmore on here is part of a training club that utilizes Cherry valley. Another group meets in monroe HRC hunting retriver club i belive is the name. Join one of these groups and you wont have to do it  alone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Great info. Thx!

Offline RockCreek

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2020, 12:02:48 PM »
T-Dozzer,   Ever considered a German Wirehair?  You mentioned Lab or GSP  .. Iv'e had both plus Chessie's.  Wirehairs are very versatile dogs on upland and water plus great family dogs.   And they have a unique personality..  kinda goofy like a lot of Labs ( not a dig on Labs.. i mean playful/friendly) but all business when the prey drive kicks in. Just an idea... 

Offline MR5x5

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2020, 12:14:26 PM »
 :tup:

GWPs are great - pointing and retrieving machines - consider looking for a smaller one, 60lb range, if you are going to focus on upland.

Offline Big6bull

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2020, 07:00:06 PM »
For what itís worth Here in sw wa Iím training my first pudelpointer. Iím a rookie but Iím finding the pheasant release sites are turning into a perfect training ground for both me and my dog. Usually always find a bird or two in a couple hours of training/hunting. Mid day have the place to our selves.

Offline aaronoto

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2020, 08:14:11 PM »
I'd say you'd have it better than most westside bird dog owners, it's not a far hop from North Bend to to the east side.  As a westside bird dog owner in a really bad spot (Whatcom county) I can say it's tough to justify owning one with all the work they require and the fact that wild birds are a 4 hour minimum drive....  Pheasant release sites are plentiful, but I go for the dog only, I don't get pumped about release birds.  Get a versatile breed and run it for waterfowl and grouse and you can get a little more use out of them over here.

Offline Special T

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2020, 09:39:08 PM »
I'd say you'd have it better than most westside bird dog owners, it's not a far hop from North Bend to to the east side.  As a westside bird dog owner in a really bad spot (Whatcom county) I can say it's tough to justify owning one with all the work they require and the fact that wild birds are a 4 hour minimum drive....  Pheasant release sites are plentiful, but I go for the dog only, I don't get pumped about release birds.  Get a versatile breed and run it for waterfowl and grouse and you can get a little more use out of them over here.

Lake Terrel is a pretty good location as is Intelco but they need some mowing bad!

If you want a versatile breed consider a German Wirehair Pointer. My hunting partner runs them and they are damned good all purpose dogs. Uplands training will be easy. holding them still when duck hunting on land will be the challenge.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2020, 02:31:32 PM »
T-Dozzer,   Ever considered a German Wirehair?  You mentioned Lab or GSP  .. Iv'e had both plus Chessie's.  Wirehairs are very versatile dogs on upland and water plus great family dogs.   And they have a unique personality..  kinda goofy like a lot of Labs ( not a dig on Labs.. i mean playful/friendly) but all business when the prey drive kicks in. Just an idea...

I have not, but Im not opposed to it. Don't know much about them.
Wife & kids want a chocolate lab and Ide prefer a black or yellow.
I lean towards labs because thats all we've ever had.

Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2020, 01:11:23 PM »
Anyone have any experience with Tiger Mountain Labs out of Ellensburg?

http://www.pointinglabs.com/pages/home

Offline MR5x5

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2020, 02:10:54 PM »
Anyone have any experience with Tiger Mountain Labs out of Ellensburg?

http://www.pointinglabs.com/pages/home

I have hunted with some of their dogs.  Not bad at all.  Pointing labs can be an adventure.  If you go that route be sure to get a small narrow shouldered version for upland - like the breed back in the Dakotas.  Big wide labs simply can't work a lot of the Palouse cover/steepness. My 80lb GWP struggled with the Palouse at times too.

Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2020, 02:25:39 PM »
Anyone have any experience with Tiger Mountain Labs out of Ellensburg?

http://www.pointinglabs.com/pages/home

I have hunted with some of their dogs.  Not bad at all.  Pointing labs can be an adventure.  If you go that route be sure to get a small narrow shouldered version for upland - like the breed back in the Dakotas.  Big wide labs simply can't work a lot of the Palouse cover/steepness. My 80lb GWP struggled with the Palouse at times too.

 :tup:

Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2020, 10:03:26 PM »
Anyone have experience with the Drahthaar breed? Similar to the wire hair.

Offline 3dvapor

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2020, 10:14:22 PM »
yeah, great credentials.  The guys that breed them put a ton of time in the breed.  I have two!

Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2020, 10:18:14 PM »
yeah, great credentials.  The guys that breed them put a ton of time in the breed.  I have two!

Is it hard to find pups from a reputable breeder within driving distance?

Offline 3dvapor

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2020, 01:25:56 AM »
yeah mine are out of red rock drahthaar in utah.  Thats where the trials are centered around there and idaho it seems. Remember though any dog is a huge commitment so i personally want the best chance of getting a quality bird dog as i can get.  I believe i get that with these dogs.  Blood trailing big game or dead pheasants across an icy river.  My dog has done it.
 

Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2020, 05:46:48 AM »
yeah mine are out of red rock drahthaar in utah.  Thats where the trials are centered around there and idaho it seems. Remember though any dog is a huge commitment so i personally want the best chance of getting a quality bird dog as i can get.  I believe i get that with these dogs.  Blood trailing big game or dead pheasants across an icy river.  My dog has done it.
 

Whar made you choose the Drahtaar over the more common wire hair?
Is there a big difference between the 2 or is a regional thing?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 06:56:03 AM by T-Dozzer »

Offline MR5x5

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2020, 08:53:48 AM »
yeah mine are out of red rock drahthaar in utah.  Thats where the trials are centered around there and idaho it seems. Remember though any dog is a huge commitment so i personally want the best chance of getting a quality bird dog as i can get.  I believe i get that with these dogs.  Blood trailing big game or dead pheasants across an icy river.  My dog has done it.
 

Whar made you choose the Drahtaar over the more common wire hair?
Is there a big difference between the 2 or is a regional thing?

"The American Kennel Club requires that both parent dogs be purebred of the German Wirehaired breed. On the other hand, the Verein Deutsch-Drahthaar require the parents to have passed several tests in the program before being bred. If they do not pass those tests, that dog will not be used to carry on the standards of the breed. This is the largest and most measurable distinction between the two breeds."
 
If you go the GWP route and get good hunting lineage you could argue there is no difference.  I'd say go with whatever breeder you are happiest with.

Offline salish

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2020, 10:28:14 AM »
In the early 2000's I took my Lewellin setter to Canine Country Club/Carlson's Kennels) in Fall City for upland training. They have always had a person who is either dedicated to upland dogs, or is well versed on upland dog training, even though their focus is on labs. I have a relative who has recently had his English setter trained there and he is pleased. I've always liked their operation, especially Carol, who pretty much ran the kennel (we also boarded our dogs there is we went out of town). I envy your location for a quick getaway to the east side. I'm in Seattle and I can be drudgery.

Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2020, 07:22:42 PM »
In the early 2000's I took my Lewellin setter to Canine Country Club/Carlson's Kennels) in Fall City for upland training. They have always had a person who is either dedicated to upland dogs, or is well versed on upland dog training, even though their focus is on labs. I have a relative who has recently had his English setter trained there and he is pleased. I've always liked their operation, especially Carol, who pretty much ran the kennel (we also boarded our dogs there is we went out of town). I envy your location for a quick getaway to the east side. I'm in Seattle and I can be drudgery.

Great info. Close.
Thanks!

Offline Special T

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2020, 09:32:08 PM »
yeah mine are out of red rock drahthaar in utah.  Thats where the trials are centered around there and idaho it seems. Remember though any dog is a huge commitment so i personally want the best chance of getting a quality bird dog as i can get.  I believe i get that with these dogs.  Blood trailing big game or dead pheasants across an icy river.  My dog has done it.
 

Whar made you choose the Drahtaar over the more common wire hair?
Is there a big difference between the 2 or is a regional thing?

"The American Kennel Club requires that both parent dogs be purebred of the German Wirehaired breed. On the other hand, the Verein Deutsch-Drahthaar require the parents to have passed several tests in the program before being bred. If they do not pass those tests, that dog will not be used to carry on the standards of the breed. This is the largest and most measurable distinction between the two breeds."
 
If you go the GWP route and get good hunting lineage you could argue there is no difference.  I'd say go with whatever breeder you are happiest with.

 :yeah:

Differentiation with out a difference.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline Malitia T.

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2020, 09:09:07 PM »
If you're interested I have a batch of Labrador puppies, I have a few that are available. They are the leaner american labs. The sire is out of tiger mountain stock and the mom is a pointer and a real good upland and water dog. I got the mom because I was having the same concerns/thoughts about what dog to get. I've had GWP, Drahthaar, Brittanies and labs and like certain things about all of them. The last dog I had was a Lab/GSP cross and a great dog also

Offline T-Dozzer

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2020, 09:11:32 PM »
If you're interested I have a batch of Labrador puppies, I have a few that are available. They are the leaner american labs. The sire is out of tiger mountain stock and the mom is a pointer and a real good upland and water dog. I got the mom because I was having the same concerns/thoughts about what dog to get. I've had GWP, Drahthaar, Brittanies and labs and like certain things about all of them. The last dog I had was a Lab/GSP cross and a great dog also

What didn't you like about the Drahthaar?

Offline Malitia T.

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2020, 09:20:35 PM »
As far as an upland dog theres not much to dislike. She couldn't resist a porcupine, 3 times on 1 weekend, and lots of quills each time. She wasn't really a super great family dog, she was nice but just business, but that could have just been her personality. I like to duck also and she wasn't a great retriever or water dog. She was given to us when she was about 5 and was fully trained and had been trained for upland. She was a great pointer

Offline bracer40

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2020, 09:34:16 PM »
yeah mine are out of red rock drahthaar in utah.  Thats where the trials are centered around there and idaho it seems. Remember though any dog is a huge commitment so i personally want the best chance of getting a quality bird dog as i can get.  I believe i get that with these dogs.  Blood trailing big game or dead pheasants across an icy river.  My dog has done it.
 

Whar made you choose the Drahtaar over the more common wire hair?
Is there a big difference between the 2 or is a regional thing?

"The American Kennel Club requires that both parent dogs be purebred of the German Wirehaired breed. On the other hand, the Verein Deutsch-Drahthaar require the parents to have passed several tests in the program before being bred. If they do not pass those tests, that dog will not be used to carry on the standards of the breed. This is the largest and most measurable distinction between the two breeds."
 
If you go the GWP route and get good hunting lineage you could argue there is no difference.  I'd say go with whatever breeder you are happiest with.

 :yeah:

Differentiation with out a difference.

Strongly agree with this! As well as the lineage comments above. Iíve trained and paid for training  with Brittanies, followed plenty of other folks Iíve hunted with and or who who hunt tested, field trialed various breeds and I found all of them to hold blood lines as the most important criteria for choosing a breeder...of course, the right breeders also respect the animals and build the value of that line and individual dogs...

Labs are great family and bird dogs, so are GWPís, (as well as lots of Brits, setters, some Vizlas, Weimers, Poodles, Pudlepointers).
Lots of cool choices...another thing to consider is what sort of potential are you and the dog facing for health issues? Lots of issues with the more popular breeds....why?   Well...unfortunately (sorry, you may already be aware of this), thereís money to be made in breeding popular dogs...and that overbreeding brings health issues.

My GF has a wire haired pointing griffon, lovely dog, but for crying out loud he has some issues! Several physical, as well as behavioral ( Not due to training/ conditioning as he grew up with my Brit, whoís  one of the chillest, loving dogs Iíve ever been around and I do most of the training.) But almost immediately after she got that dog from the breeder we started learning that they were a glorified puppy mill with good down home marketing...

To circle back: if I was considering one of the larger versatile breeds such as the GWP, iíd Seriously look into the  Verein Deutsch-Drahthaar.

Good luck!

ďJust give me a comfortable couch, a dog, a good book, and a woman. Then if you can get the dog to go somewhere and read the book, I might have a little fun.Ē
― Groucho Marx

Offline RGB

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Re: Mulling it over. Thoughts?
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2020, 11:19:51 AM »
Anyone have any experience with Tiger Mountain Labs out of Ellensburg?

http://www.pointinglabs.com/pages/home

My last dog was from this kennel. He was one of the best dogs I have ever had. I'm running a Brittany now that replaced the lab.

 


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Closest Area to Hogs by carpsniperg2
[Today at 12:41:45 AM]


Life size Bear by TRD1911
[Yesterday at 11:49:06 PM]


2020 Blacktail came home today! by Pete112288
[Yesterday at 11:05:28 PM]


Wildcat Cartridges by JimmyHoffa
[Yesterday at 10:12:15 PM]


FS/FT: Bullets by Damnimissed
[Yesterday at 09:45:59 PM]


Pit boss by Timberstalker
[Yesterday at 09:27:19 PM]


Spring Bear Pelt Submission by Chesapeake
[Yesterday at 09:17:10 PM]


Bulk lead, weights, anchors, molds, etc. by HntnFsh
[Yesterday at 09:04:22 PM]


Play Free: Hunting-Washington $100 Monthly Lotto! by Levipowell
[Yesterday at 08:49:02 PM]


Selling Reloaded Ammo by hunter399
[Yesterday at 08:49:02 PM]


7th Annual - 2021 YOUTH TURKEY HUNT CONTEST (enter by Mar 15) by Levipowell
[Yesterday at 08:46:39 PM]


Rock chuks by Dan-o
[Yesterday at 08:35:57 PM]


2 & 6 year old Boys tag team a trout by bracer40
[Yesterday at 08:27:52 PM]


Wts: bear agenda 6 bow by Boss .300 winmag
[Yesterday at 08:26:02 PM]


Post The Ammo/Reloading Supplies You Find In Stock Here! by Weatherby92
[Yesterday at 08:22:40 PM]


Washington Mule Deer by no.cen.wa
[Yesterday at 08:18:00 PM]


WTS 1920 DWM Military Luger P08 9mm-original grips and Magazine by Gentrys
[Yesterday at 08:12:22 PM]


Baikal izh-94 222 rem/12ga by Tracker0721
[Yesterday at 07:46:55 PM]


Hawken 50 cal and kit $450 by Tracker0721
[Yesterday at 07:42:21 PM]


Three by CoyoteCowboy
[Yesterday at 07:37:36 PM]