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Author Topic: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal  (Read 2753 times)

Offline GASoline71

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One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it. What he is after is having to win it, to conquer the surly brute through his own effort and skill with all the extras that this carries with it: the immersion in the countryside, the healthfulness of the exercise, the distraction from his job. ~ Jose Ortega y Gasset

Online Jake Dogfish

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2022, 09:08:55 PM »
ďHR 8167, while just introduced on June 22, 2022, already has 53 co-sponsors (all Republican).Ē
Partisans attacking our fishing and hunting.  :bash:
Environmentalist Fundamentalist

Offline X-Force

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2022, 09:09:45 PM »
Stupid.
People get offended at nothing at all. So, speak your mind and be unapologetic.

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2022, 09:47:15 PM »
Gun ownership and expression of 2A rights survived just fine for decades with PR excise, which has been a boon for conservation. It's the more recent threats to gun rights that need the focus.

Offline Special T

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2022, 10:43:59 PM »
I think this is wrong but Im gonna play devils advocate because some one needs to. Fact. we generate a huge sum a money. Fact, Anti hunting groups have been able to tap into this huge sum to fight conservation in the name  of conservation. Wolves, cougars, grizzlies dont need protection. fact is we are funding our enemies and that is in part because the democrat party has allowed those funds to be used against sportsmen's interests.

The problem as I see it has to do with the fact that the ESA allows Sue and Settle techniques that give advantage to anti hunting groups and give an unfair advantage against sportsmen. I understand why we should oppose taking away our funding because it gives us a superior voice... question is how do we solve the problem that Antis are using our $ against us.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

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Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2022, 06:16:57 AM »
I think this is wrong but Im gonna play devils advocate because some one needs to. Fact. we generate a huge sum a money. Fact, Anti hunting groups have been able to tap into this huge sum to fight conservation in the name  of conservation. Wolves, cougars, grizzlies dont need protection. fact is we are funding our enemies and that is in part because the democrat party has allowed those funds to be used against sportsmen's interests.

The problem as I see it has to do with the fact that the ESA allows Sue and Settle techniques that give advantage to anti hunting groups and give an unfair advantage against sportsmen. I understand why we should oppose taking away our funding because it gives us a superior voice... question is how do we solve the problem that Antis are using our $ against us.

Yep, I was thinking the same thing. Wolves were funded illegally by it.🤬🤬🤬
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Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2022, 07:50:50 AM »
I was thinking along the same lines, SpecialT.  Too much abuse allowing money generated by hunters and shooters to be used for items not only not benefiting hunting, but actively working against.  Predators are a great example.  Preferably, they would just clean up the program so it works as intended.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2022, 08:10:13 AM »
It's an interesting bill, which will go nowhere, IMO. I actually would love to see the Ds confused as to which way to vote on it. Guns - bad. Taxes - good. I think the GA freshman and others supporting this bill don't understand that PR has the support of tens of millions of gun owners and sportsmen, or what it actually does for wildlife conservation. They will soon hear from them. I do agree that when they can get away with it, they'll abuse the funds for political reasons.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2022, 08:34:20 AM »
Some good reading here (https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R45667.pdf)-  seems the majority of funding is by statute either directly allocated to hunter education, or apportioned to the states for a number of programs.  Not a lot about non-game species, although that certainly seems to be a valid area for states to expend PR funds.  So that might be an issue to be fixed at the state level, not at the national level. 

I am all for the majority of uses of PR funds, including expansion of shooting ranges.  I have lived in several places where it was not convenient at all to get to a range.  And hunter education, including archery hunting education programs, is always worthwhile.  Throwing the whole business out the window, rather than fixing specific problems, just seems misguided. 


Offline Angry Perch

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2022, 11:30:59 AM »
Regardless of what god the money might do, is it Constitutional to have a significant tax on firearms?

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2022, 11:37:29 AM »
I think this is wrong but Im gonna play devils advocate because some one needs to. Fact. we generate a huge sum a money. Fact, Anti hunting groups have been able to tap into this huge sum to fight conservation in the name  of conservation. Wolves, cougars, grizzlies dont need protection. fact is we are funding our enemies and that is in part because the democrat party has allowed those funds to be used against sportsmen's interests.

The problem as I see it has to do with the fact that the ESA allows Sue and Settle techniques that give advantage to anti hunting groups and give an unfair advantage against sportsmen. I understand why we should oppose taking away our funding because it gives us a superior voice... question is how do we solve the problem that Antis are using our $ against us.

 :yeah:  PR needs to be revised to prevent robbing funds to use against sports folks, here's the problem, with the current congress, now is not the time to do it! This needs to wait till next year!
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2022, 11:46:20 AM »
Regardless of what god the money might do, is it Constitutional to have a significant tax on firearms?

Damn good question. PR was forwarded and supported by the sporting community. That's probably why it's never been challenged, or at least I can't find where it has. That doesn't mean that all gun owners would be in favor of paying that extra tax that non-gun owners don't. Get it in front of C. Thomas and who knows what the SCOTUS would do. Overturning it would certainly be devastating to not only conservation, but the future of hunting. We (hunters)  currently hold most of the cards when it comes to conservation dollars between PR and licensing. Losing PR would mean we don't have as loud a voice in wildlife issues.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Online elkboy

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2022, 11:56:13 AM »
Regardless of what god the money might do, is it Constitutional to have a significant tax on firearms?

Damn good question. PR was forwarded and supported by the sporting community. That's probably why it's never been challenged, or at least I can't find where it has. That doesn't mean that all gun owners would be in favor of paying that extra tax that non-gun owners don't. Get it in front of C. Thomas and who knows what the SCOTUS would do. Overturning it would certainly be devastating to not only conservation, but the future of hunting. We (hunters)  currently hold most of the cards when it comes to conservation dollars between PR and licensing. Losing PR would mean we don't have as loud a voice in wildlife issues.

Totally agree.  We (hunters) frequently tout PR funds and license fees, as well as hunting-oriented non-profits, as "paying the freight" for a LOT of conservation.  If there are problems with how PR is being expended, fix the problems.  I don't see it as infringing on constitutional rights to levy a tax on firearms and ammunition, at least not at the 10-11% rate.         

Offline pickardjw

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2022, 12:06:42 PM »
HOWL already has an action up on the site regarding this. Sending mine today.

https://www.howlforwildlife.org/returnact

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Pittman-Robertson Act in Crosshairs of Repeal
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2022, 12:21:04 PM »
Regardless of what god the money might do, is it Constitutional to have a significant tax on firearms?

Damn good question. PR was forwarded and supported by the sporting community. That's probably why it's never been challenged, or at least I can't find where it has. That doesn't mean that all gun owners would be in favor of paying that extra tax that non-gun owners don't. Get it in front of C. Thomas and who knows what the SCOTUS would do. Overturning it would certainly be devastating to not only conservation, but the future of hunting. We (hunters)  currently hold most of the cards when it comes to conservation dollars between PR and licensing. Losing PR would mean we don't have as loud a voice in wildlife issues.

Totally agree.  We (hunters) frequently tout PR funds and license fees, as well as hunting-oriented non-profits, as "paying the freight" for a LOT of conservation.  If there are problems with how PR is being expended, fix the problems.  I don't see it as infringing on constitutional rights to levy a tax on firearms and ammunition, at least not at the 10-11% rate.       

There could be an argument that this tax is discriminatory and makes it more difficult for poorer Americans to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights, not only with the original purchase but ongoingly purchasing ammo.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

 


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