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Author Topic: I like big guns...and I cannot lie  (Read 3944 times)

Offline birddogdad

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2024, 11:08:29 AM »
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/if-a-rifle-could-talk-finn-aagaard-s-375/

when i was a young man in the 70's, my grandpa would read to me about this man and his 375... later in my life, grandpa got me one and to this day, its a very fun gun to run and load! Its my elk slayer!
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Offline Mtnwalker

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2024, 12:03:59 PM »
Inside 400 yards the difference is probably negligible on game. 500 and beyond the 338 would start to run away and by the time you got past 700 it's probably not even comparable.

But they're 2 very different cartridges designed to do 2 very different things. Kinda like comparing a bulldozer to a Ford Raptor.

IMO the 338 is going to be way more shootable at distance due to trajectory and wind deflection. That being said there's no way I'd be lugging a 338LM around the woods unless I planned on killing elk way beyond a grand. Even then there's other cartridges I'd personally go with.  If you're talking about an every day elk rifle that you can stretch out to 500 on occasion, I'd stick with the 375  :dunno:

Offline Bob33

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2024, 01:05:46 PM »
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/if-a-rifle-could-talk-finn-aagaard-s-375/

when i was a young man in the 70's, my grandpa would read to me about this man and his 375... later in my life, grandpa got me one and to this day, its a very fun gun to run and load! Its my elk slayer!
That's a fascinating article. I did find it interesting that he recorded having lost or wounded seven buffalo with his 375.
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Offline Cougartail

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2024, 06:39:18 AM »
Back in the day I read many an article written by and later, about Finn. I only carry my 375 around bear infested areas in Alaska anymore. I did take it elk hunting once and almost shot a spike. Problem was the cow standing behind him. They both would have been dead had I shot.
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Offline Come Get Some

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2024, 08:36:20 AM »
I would definately shhot the 338-378 before i would entertain the .375. BC is superior ,trajectory is superior and retained kenetic energy is superior down range. It performs well beyond 1000 yds. The berger elite bullets have a great BC but come apart at long range and dont penetrate as well as the OTM's do. Same BC better performance upon impact. Tested on elk at 1400 yds. This is not speculation. The nosler  accubond stays together well also. 338,-378 is definately a big gun. When on the shooting bench when i torch it off. Both bences on either side of me empty.

Offline luvmystang67

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2024, 08:55:06 AM »
I want to rephrase my question a little.

Letís say there are no laws in Africa, you can use whichever gun you wish.

Now letís say you shoot a 270 grain bullet out of a 375 or a 270 grain from a 338 at 100 yards. Does one kill the buffalo better? Assume same bullet construction and velocity. Only difference is the diameter.

Are these projectiles performing with the same killing power? If one is better in my scenario, why?


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Offline Rob

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2024, 09:23:57 AM »
If all other variables are equal other than diameter (Bullet construction, weight, velocity, etc), then I think the only variable left is sectional density.  The 338 would penetrate better.

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Offline bearpaw

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2024, 01:02:26 PM »
I want to rephrase my question a little.

Letís say there are no laws in Africa, you can use whichever gun you wish.

Now letís say you shoot a 270 grain bullet out of a 375 or a 270 grain from a 338 at 100 yards. Does one kill the buffalo better? Assume same bullet construction and velocity. Only difference is the diameter.

Are these projectiles performing with the same killing power? If one is better in my scenario, why?


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IMO- I agree with Rob on the sectional density, also speed can make a difference, and bore size can make a difference, with the same weight bullets at close range the 375 might be more effective due to bore diameter, speed isn't all that different at close range with 275 (heavy for a 338) gr bullets, but at long range the 338 will have the advantage due to SD.
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Offline havershap

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2024, 06:07:17 AM »
I love my .375.  I've only shot a .338 once.
At 500 yards, the difference in trajectory won't matter.  A 270 grain, .375 Speer has a BC of .429.  With a muzzle velocity of 2700 ft/sec and a 200 yard zero, it will drop 51.4 inches at 500 yards (per Speer reloading manual).  Raise the BC to .50 and keep everything else the same and the drop at 500 yards decreases to 48.2 inches.  Not enough to matter in terms of hitting your target.
At 500 yards, the .375 bullet will be traveling at 1747 ft/sec and the .338 (with BC .5) will be traveling at 1865.  I doubt the animal will know the difference.
If there is a difference, I think it is most likely to be in accuracy.  Most people will shoot the .375 more accurately due to its milder felt recoil.  A bullet hitting the boiler room at 1747 ft/sec will be much more effective than a bullet hitting the guts at 1865 ft/sec.

The above notwithstanding, your post reads like you just want to experiment with the .338 for the fun of it.  So go for it.  But my I would look at a lighter bullet in order to get a higher velocity.  You'll lose some BC but if you can come up with a combination of MV and BC that yields a significantly flatter trajectory, I think that would be the biggest advantage of the .338.

Offline luvmystang67

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2024, 06:14:24 AM »
Thanks @havershap

Youíre getting closer to my question.

Iíve wanted a .375 H&H since I was 12, and now that I have one and am loading for it, I look at the ballistic charts and think ďWhy would anyone prefer a 375 to a big 338? They often take the same weight bullets, and it appears that everything bigger than a 338WM meets or exceeds performance of the .375.Ē

Just trying to mentally justify what benefits I get out of my .375 aside from nostalgia, Africa minimums, and a place in history.


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Offline havershap

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2024, 07:40:43 AM »
I'm like you.  I'd wanted a 375 for years because it's such a classic caliber, even though I have no practical need for one since the biggest animals I hunt are elk.  I finally bought one a few years ago and I'm very happy with it.  With 250 grain Sierra bullets, I get sub MOA accuracy and a trajectory similar to my .30-06.  I shot an elk with it a few years ago, a quartering away shot at about 350 yards.  The bullet entered behind the last rib and the fragments exited through the chest.  Not many rounds would go through an elk the long way.

The above notwithstanding, I'm looking at experimenting with 270 grain Speer bullets.  They have a much higher ballistic coefficient than the Sierras and are only a little more than half the cost.  Your original post stated that you're getting a velocity around 2700 ft/sec with 270 grain bullets from your 375.  What powder are you using, and how much?

Offline luvmystang67

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2024, 09:49:36 AM »
I'm like you.  I'd wanted a 375 for years because it's such a classic caliber, even though I have no practical need for one since the biggest animals I hunt are elk.  I finally bought one a few years ago and I'm very happy with it.  With 250 grain Sierra bullets, I get sub MOA accuracy and a trajectory similar to my .30-06.  I shot an elk with it a few years ago, a quartering away shot at about 350 yards.  The bullet entered behind the last rib and the fragments exited through the chest.  Not many rounds would go through an elk the long way.

The above notwithstanding, I'm looking at experimenting with 270 grain Speer bullets.  They have a much higher ballistic coefficient than the Sierras and are only a little more than half the cost.  Your original post stated that you're getting a velocity around 2700 ft/sec with 270 grain bullets from your 375.  What powder are you using, and how much?

I've currently done most of my load development with Barnes 270g TSX FB and so far (in absence of any of the Reloader powders availability) I've had the best luck with 74 g of Varget.  My best groups are ~1", going 2725 FPS.  At 20 and 30 thousands off the lands I see 50 fps more, but it messed with my accuracy and required single round feed.  Have been messing around a little with CFE223, H4350 as well as some 300 gr accubonds and some 270 grain A Frames.  I haven't messed around as much with these, but they seemed to be less promising that the Varget and Barnes.

Offline havershap

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2024, 12:16:04 PM »
Thanks.  I'm not looking at Barnes bullets and the best I've come up, on paper at least, is H4350.

Back to the topic of 375 vs 338:

When you consider cape buffalo instead of elk, other factors dominate.  You don't shoot buffalo, or any dangerous game, at 500 yards.  You shoot at 100 yards or less.  So BC doesn't matter and trajectory doesn't matter.  I would focus on 300 grain bullets.  According to the Hodgdon on-line reloading data, you can expect to get a velocity of about 2800 ft/sec from the .338 versus about 2550 from the 375.  A lot of history has demonstrated that the 375 will do the job but the 338 seem like it will hit significantly harder.  But I still think the most important consideration is going to be how well you shoot it.

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2024, 12:27:06 PM »
Comparing a 375 HH to a 338 lapua is like comparing a john deer tractor to a corvette.  :twocents:

Offline luvmystang67

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2024, 01:27:17 PM »
Comparing a 375 HH to a 338 lapua is like comparing a john deer tractor to a corvette.  :twocents:

I guess my point is, I can't think of a single thing the .375 H&H is then better than the .338 (lapua or larger) at, except maybe carrying a 350 grain bullet.  Looking for someone to say "WRONG", but nobody does.

There are things that a tractor is better than a corvette at and vice versa.

 


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