Hornady ELD-X: Explodes Like A Varmint Bullet?!

[jrebel]

I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X.  Performance was very inconsistent.  I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear.  Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again.  Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill.  That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.   

I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets.  I’ve never been let down by either.

The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage.  I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price.  They are half the price of other….better….bullets.

How do you like the Hammers? Accuracy and performance? I've read they're designed to shed their petals. Ever recover one? Retained weight? I have a box of 153s (IIRC) for the AI, but haven't done anything with them yet. Hard to move away from the LRX with the accuracy and performance they give.

We have killed multiple deer and bear with various calibers and weights.  They have all performed flawlessly and recoveries have been very easy and quick.  I have yet to find a shank in any animal and have had complete pass throughs on all animals.  Most of the pedals pass through as well.  The entry and exit wounds really tell the story with hammers.  I have multiple pics of the aftermath on deer and bear to keep track of performance and to share on the Hammer forum.  Last year I loaded their new HHT line in a 300 wsm and have had the same great experience.  When they shed their pedals, they shank is suppose to square off instead of rounding off.  This allows for the bullet to perform like a larger caliber dangerous game solid and create massive cavitation.  My son shoot a 500 ish lb black bear in Alberta at 330 ish yards with a 260 grain HH out of a 338 lapua.  Hard quartering to shot and the bullet entered in the neck (just in front of the shoulder) and exited behind the last rib of the offside.  We figured 3-4 feet of travel and it was a complete pass through.  Bear dropped in it's tracks. 

As for ease of loading....you won't find an easier bullet to load in my opinion!!  Accuracy is second to none.  I have a 6.5 creed (Savage Stealth) that shot 1 MOA with 140 grain accubonds.  When I switched to the 124 HH it consistently prints 1/2 MOA or better.  I have a 7 shot group that is sub .3 MOA.  I have only found one of their bullets.....  .264 80 grain HHT that I can't get to group sub MOA, though I think a faster powder will fix that.  There is a learning curve to loading hammers, though if you shoot the LRX you probably have figure out mono's. 

[pickardjw]

I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X.  Performance was very inconsistent.  I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear.  Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again.  Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill.  That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.   

I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets.  I’ve never been let down by either.

The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage.  I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price.  They are half the price of other….better….bullets.

Do you have photos or video of the bullet that "exploded" on a bear shoulder?

I have pics of the bear a year later still alive.  Huge bald spot on the high shoulder.  I’ll see if I can find the picture.  I didn’t take a picture of the hair / hide I found on point of impact, but it was the size of a softball.

A well documented miracle of terminal ballistics would be neat to see. Otherwise, I don't believe for a second that a 212gr cup and core bullet at 2000+ fps failed to penetrate 4" of meat and bone.

[The scout]

I gave them a good shot, killed probably 6 deer and 3 elk. They kill stuff, nothing went more than 20 yds. Inside of 300yds=gross entrance hole and no exit. Outside of that they perform really well. ALL the energy goes into that animal, the lungs get vaporized because of it. Never had bullets do as much internal damage.I was shooting them out of my 300 rum so they just had a little too much speed close. I think where they really work well is past 500 where a bonded bullet really isn’t going to carry enough speed to expand. All that said I don’t use them anymore.

How do you think they’d perform under 300 yards out of a .30-06?

Guarantee dead animal, might be messy. I’ll take a dead animal over perfect exit hole any time.

[jrebel]

I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X.  Performance was very inconsistent.  I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear.  Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again.  Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill.  That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.   

I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets.  I’ve never been let down by either.

The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage.  I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price.  They are half the price of other….better….bullets.

Do you have photos or video of the bullet that "exploded" on a bear shoulder?

I have pics of the bear a year later still alive.  Huge bald spot on the high shoulder.  I’ll see if I can find the picture.  I didn’t take a picture of the hair / hide I found on point of impact, but it was the size of a softball.

A well documented miracle of terminal ballistics would be neat to see. Otherwise, I don't believe for a second that a 212gr cup and core bullet at 2000+ fps failed to penetrate 4" of meat and bone.

    Wow....not sure how to take this.  Why would I have a reason to lie about it.  I found the pics, but feel like you may be calling me a liar.  I've killed or been part of kills involving a lot of deer, elk, bear, moose, etc. and have no reason to lie.  Had I not gotten pictures of this bear after the fact (still alive and well), I guess I would just have been a liar.  Other members have seen the pics, and they may be posted on the site somewhere.  Maybe I'll just keep you pondering on how a 212 grain cup and core bullet can defy all terminal ballistics and hold on to the pics for now. 

The same gun and bullet killed two bull moose, one of which was a very large bull.  First bull was shot in the head at 40 ish yards.  It locked its legs and stayed standing.  I stepped around the brush and put two shots behind the shoulder.  At 40 yards, neither of those rounds exited the bull. 

Moose #2, the big moose was shot twice at 300 yards.  The first round  hit the bull behind the shoulders and appears to have penciled all the way through.  Exit wound was the diameter of my pinky.  The bull lunged a few feet and went to his knees.  Second round went through the neck to finish it.  I'm not sure if this bull would have made it to it's feet, we would have ever found it.  The entry and exit hole were teh same size. 

I didn't take pics of the wounds so you will have to take my word on it.   

[Bareback]

I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X.  Performance was very inconsistent.  I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear.  Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again.  Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill.  That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.   

I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets.  I’ve never been let down by either.

The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage.  I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price.  They are half the price of other….better….bullets.

Were you aiming for the shoulder?

[jrebel]

I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X.  Performance was very inconsistent.  I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear.  Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again.  Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill.  That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.   

I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets.  I’ve never been let down by either.

The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage.  I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price.  They are half the price of other….better….bullets.

Were you aiming for the shoulder?

Yes, high shoulder entrance with what should have been a behind the offside shoulder exit.  Very slightly quartering two shot and I had elevation so a slight downward shot.  It was a bigger bear so I wanted to anchor it.  I have taken high shoulder shots before on bear and it usually immobilizes them quick. 

My take on the bullet (and a lot of people share the same sentiment).  It is thin walled at high velocity, it will fragment / explode on impact.   It is really designed to work on the lower end of the velocity scale and be an effective long range bullet (this is by its design and name).  Hornady wanted a design that would work at all ranges and velocities.  This is a difficult task as the property of bullets and their performance is often dictated by velocity at impact.  This is why a lot of hunters that love the ELD-X’s accuracy are using the match (ELD-M) for their hunting bullet.  I have not done this, but apparently success has been great. 

[pickardjw]

I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X.  Performance was very inconsistent.  I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear.  Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again.  Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill.  That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.   

I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets.  I’ve never been let down by either.

The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage.  I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price.  They are half the price of other….better….bullets.

Do you have photos or video of the bullet that "exploded" on a bear shoulder?

I have pics of the bear a year later still alive.  Huge bald spot on the high shoulder.  I’ll see if I can find the picture.  I didn’t take a picture of the hair / hide I found on point of impact, but it was the size of a softball.

A well documented miracle of terminal ballistics would be neat to see. Otherwise, I don't believe for a second that a 212gr cup and core bullet at 2000+ fps failed to penetrate 4" of meat and bone.

    Wow....not sure how to take this.  Why would I have a reason to lie about it.  I found the pics, but feel like you may be calling me a liar.  I've killed or been part of kills involving a lot of deer, elk, bear, moose, etc. and have no reason to lie.  Had I not gotten pictures of this bear after the fact (still alive and well), I guess I would just have been a liar.  Other members have seen the pics, and they may be posted on the site somewhere.  Maybe I'll just keep you pondering on how a 212 grain cup and core bullet can defy all terminal ballistics and hold on to the pics for now. 

The same gun and bullet killed two bull moose, one of which was a very large bull.  First bull was shot in the head at 40 ish yards.  It locked its legs and stayed standing.  I stepped around the brush and put two shots behind the shoulder.  At 40 yards, neither of those rounds exited the bull. 

Moose #2, the big moose was shot twice at 300 yards.  The first round  hit the bull behind the shoulders and appears to have penciled all the way through.  Exit wound was the diameter of my pinky.  The bull lunged a few feet and went to his knees.  Second round went through the neck to finish it.  I'm not sure if this bull would have made it to it's feet, we would have ever found it.  The entry and exit hole were teh same size. 

I didn't take pics of the wounds so you will have to take my word on it.   

Not saying you're lying, that would imply some sort of malicious intent. I'm saying that the performance of that bullet as described is so improbable that it requires a higher degree of evidence.

[Bareback]

An immobilizing shot on a bear is very comforting. Nothing gets the adrenaline pumping more than tracking a wounded bear in brush, which I have done in some of the nasty country possible.

The only draw back to a shoulder shot is if it doesn’t immobilize the bear. At a 250 yrd shot the bullet is in flight for two tenths of a second. In that time frame a lot of movement can be achieved. A broadside shot can turn into a quartering shot pretty quick. At which an angle of deflection could become a factor. How many times have archery elk hunters hit the front leg/shoulder do to the fact the animal stepped right after release.

I’m not doubting your story line since I have had very similar experience on a bear with a 300 WSM 180 EDLX.  Sure there are better bullets but EDLX bullets have done just fine in my experience in 6.5, .300 and .338 calibers when shot placement has been in the boilermaker.

Thanks for your insights 👍

[b23]

These bears must be wearing some kind of AR500 armor plating or something.  No wonder the Canadians pay so much in taxes, they're outfitting their bears with armor.

All joking aside reading the description of your bear/bullet failure story does make one go Hmmm ok if you say so because the idea of a 212gr ELD-X just splashing on the surface of a bear's shoulder not penetrating and just blowing the hair off makes for a story that is very difficult to believe under about any circumstance.  Maybe there's more to it but as presented it's a tough one to go with without raising doubt.

[Mtnwalker]

I agree just from a pure physics standpoint it does sound highly implausible, but I'm also not the type to say something can't happen just because I haven't personally witnessed it. There is a lot of old school myth and misinformation in the bullet world these days, and splashing falls under that category. Especially on a fat bear with a good coat on, I'd personally wager that a lot of perceived "bullet failures" are actually a product of mistaken shot placement. Not speaking to JReb's case in particular, I know he's a knowledgeable dude and an experienced shooter so I won't speculate to his particular instance. I've abandoned more than one bullet for having experiences opposite of what "everybody else" says about them.

[Tbar]

I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X.  Performance was very inconsistent.  I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear.  Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again.  Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill.  That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.   

I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets.  I’ve never been let down by either.

The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage.  I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price.  They are half the price of other….better….bullets.

Do you have photos or video of the bullet that "exploded" on a bear shoulder?

I have pics of the bear a year later still alive.  Huge bald spot on the high shoulder.  I’ll see if I can find the picture.  I didn’t take a picture of the hair / hide I found on point of impact, but it was the size of a softball.

A well documented miracle of terminal ballistics would be neat to see. Otherwise, I don't believe for a second that a 212gr cup and core bullet at 2000+ fps failed to penetrate 4" of meat and bone.

    Wow....not sure how to take this.  Why would I have a reason to lie about it.  I found the pics, but feel like you may be calling me a liar.  I've killed or been part of kills involving a lot of deer, elk, bear, moose, etc. and have no reason to lie.  Had I not gotten pictures of this bear after the fact (still alive and well), I guess I would just have been a liar.  Other members have seen the pics, and they may be posted on the site somewhere.  Maybe I'll just keep you pondering on how a 212 grain cup and core bullet can defy all terminal ballistics and hold on to the pics for now. 

The same gun and bullet killed two bull moose, one of which was a very large bull.  First bull was shot in the head at 40 ish yards.  It locked its legs and stayed standing.  I stepped around the brush and put two shots behind the shoulder.  At 40 yards, neither of those rounds exited the bull. 

Moose #2, the big moose was shot twice at 300 yards.  The first round  hit the bull behind the shoulders and appears to have penciled all the way through.  Exit wound was the diameter of my pinky.  The bull lunged a few feet and went to his knees.  Second round went through the neck to finish it.  I'm not sure if this bull would have made it to it's feet, we would have ever found it.  The entry and exit hole were teh same size. 

I didn't take pics of the wounds so you will have to take my word on it.   

Not saying you're lying, that would imply some sort of malicious intent. I'm saying that the performance of that bullet as described is so improbable that it requires a higher degree of evidence.

Pickardjw, with all do respect real world hunting and changing variables create situations as jrebel describes. If you haven't experienced similar I'd question your credentials to question real world performance vs controlled probabilities.  No higher degree of evidence needed, I've lived way to many impossibilities. 

[chukardogs]

When shooting an animal with a projectile, no matter the speed, weight, whatever......... There's always going to be outliers just like in every other facet of the world we live in. Man, wouldn't it be nice to pull the trigger with 100% certainty that the gig is up. That's just not the world I live in. After the bullet leaves the business end on the gun, your influence on the situation is over and all you can do from there, is hope your dedication to detail and your time invested in finding the best possible combination for your gun was adequate. I spent many years in a materials testing lab and you can go to great lengths to find the perfect balance between strength and weight of material and test a hundred parts and have 99 perform flawlessly and one fail miserably. Worst part is, you may never prove with certainty, why the one failed. It may be blatantly obvious or you may spend weeks, months or years scratching your head on why....... When killing an animal is the goal, before the bullet leaves the gun there should have already been a full acceptance of the outcome, whatever that outcome may be. There's a whole lot a stuff that can happen to that bullet after it leaves the gun! Heck, with todays manufacturing woes, there's no guarantee the material of the bullet wasn't flawed.
 I do have to ask, (may not be the place but) I read in one of the earlier post on this thread that "someone used my rifle" to shoot an an animal. I'd like to know, even with a scope, how many have found when shooting their buddies rifle, that your point of impact was identical to theirs? I've shot a few of my buddies rifles and have found, not one of them hit where I thought it should. I hunted with my grandfather's 06 for the first year or two of my hunting career before adjusting the sights to fit me. I think my father wanted me to learn, as long as you know where it's hitting, you know where to point. Not positive but it's the only thing that ever made sense.
 If you do something enough times, you'll eventually have a result that doesn't match your expectations. I think based on what I've read here, I'll stick with my Grand Slams and Barnes LRX and then live with the results. Great discussion! Hearing about the experiences of others and being willing to accept that their experiences may very from your own is always advantageous to any endeavor. Thanks

[pickardjw]

I'd personally wager that a lot of perceived "bullet failures" are actually a product of mistaken shot placement.

Exactly. With the amount of people digiscoping kill shot these days, you would think the evidence to back up the claims of bullets "splashing" on deer/elk/bear shoulders would exist...

[jrebel]

Would a poorly placed 212 grain ELD-X out of a 300 win mag.....that took off a softball patch of flesh leave an exit wound??  Ballistics and conventional knowledge would say there isn't a bear in Washington that could stop a 212 grain ELD-X from full penetration with exit wound.  I've got pics of both side of the bear a year later and no exit wound exists.....so either it dynamited on the onside shoulder or it fragged the inside of the bears shoulder not killing it.  The later is a definite possibility....but that would also suggest complete failure of an ELD-X....which clearly cannot be the case.   

In hindsight, I would have not taken a shoulder shot using this frangible bullet.  I too subscribed to the rhetoric that a 212 grain bullet out of a 300 win mag would wo to stern any big game animal in North America....I was wrong. 

I'll have to ponder other possibilities of how this bear didn't die with such a great bullet.   

[pickardjw]

Or the bullet did not hit the bear first.