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Poll

Should all OTC tags be eliminated and draw only hunting be the way forward?

NO - keep the general season open
262 (69.1%)
YES - make all hunting special draw only like Utah
117 (30.9%)

Total Members Voted: 379

Author Topic: Should ALL general season Elk hunts be canceled in favor of permit only hunting?  (Read 14040 times)

Offline Hi-Liter

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State would likely not due away with general season elk. There is way too much profit loss. It would also make sense that if, by taking away of general season would be a way for the state to slowly disarm hunters. In theory many people only big game hunt not all, but many hunters would just give up on waiting for a lottery tag to occur. It would also hurt business (fuel, food, tax, accessories, guns, and many things that are a must for hunting). It would also hurt many people to fork out more money in hopes of a draw. Permit draw would become more expensive.

Offline DavidM

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I am sure I will get hammered for this but. Part of our problem is access. We have to easy access in Eastern Wa. in most areas. You can drive any where you want to and see another road from the one you are on. There have been multiple studies done that show most big game want to stay 3 or more miles away from road traffic. And the animals know when they start hearing the vehicles in the woods it's time to head for safe ground reserves or private land where there safe. The Clockum heard for example, the state would like to keep it around 6,000 head  talk to the biologist and they think there are around 8,000 head. They would like to keep about a 8 to 1 Cow to Bull ratio for proper breeding but because of the heard numbers they are at about 12 to 15 to 1. But because of off season kills there aren't enough mature bulls to breed the larger numbers. I have been hunting that area and others out of state (when I could afford it) since I was 12 years old I am 58 now. We as a group have always had the best luck seeing multiple animals when we have walked in for 4 or 5 miles. I am not a horn hunter I am a meat hunter. So my vote would be to leave it the same non draw general tags but consider the access issues. Grant access to those who have limited mobility. Just my thoughts go ahead and hammer away. 

Offline Oh Mah

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Not gonna hammer you a bit but did you forget what your member pic is?What kind of roads do you mean?Asphalt,gravel,logging?
"Boss of the woods"

Offline stickslinger

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No hammering here, as far as colockum I am all for only having the two main roads that go from elensburg to wenatchee open, close all of the rest and increase the penalty for not following road closures
RELAX,PICK A SPOT,SHOOT STRAIGHT

Offline Jpmiller

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If they start limiting road access I might not be all by myself all season long lol. I think that limiting access would be good and I don't actually think it would push more people out of their rigs either. I would be on board with that.

Offline DavidM

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I thought that my picture would get a few comments. But I use the UTV so I can park my truck and Drive from camp to camp for the social hour  :chuckle: I use it more at home than up hunting its a good conversation piece up hunting though. Sorry to get off topic.

Offline Oh Mah

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I thought that my picture would get a few comments. But I use the UTV so I can park my truck and Drive from camp to camp for the social hour  :chuckle: I use it more at home than up hunting its a good conversation piece up hunting though. Sorry to get off topic.
Actually that's very cool,I love riding up the road on my atv to say howdy and get to know who's out there with me.You find some pretty good people out there
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Offline Allen23

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It probably should be permit only at least for say a 3 year period if the Yakama Indians will adhere to some realistic seasons and limits.  Give it a try for a 3 year period and see how it goes.

If the Indians don't want to change, then maybe it's time to do away with spike only for the rest of us.

 I'm with this guy!! I can see no good coming from limiting the rest of us so that a certain group of people can take advantage of the elk population. Everyone has to be on the same page. Hunting treaties would need some corrections and verbiage changes before this would be effective, I think.
In a world where it is so easy to attach your self to the negative side of things remember, What would Grandpa say?

Offline Skyvalhunter

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And you believe that will EVER happen?

Offline bobcat

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All GMU's that are within the Yakama's hunting area should have the same seasons and regulations that the Yakama's adhere to, in my opinion. If you can't beat them, join them. After all, the treaty says they have the right to hunt "in common" with us. So being that they refuse to limit themselves in any way, I say we do the same. Bull season will be year around, and cow elk season will be September 1 to December 31, no limit to how many elk a person may take. The rest of the state can go to permit only so our elk can be properly managed.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 09:56:21 AM by bobcat »

Offline Jpmiller

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I say we open the logging back up and see how that goes before we start blaming the Indians. While I still find elk pretty much Everytime I look i can say it is getting harder and seems number may be less up in the timber where there are little clearings left.

Offline chester

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I say we open the logging back up and see how that goes before we start blaming the Indians. While I still find elk pretty much Everytime I look i can say it is getting harder and seems number may be less up in the timber where there are little clearings left.
Increased feed for the herds, add some fire prevention to the area. It'd be a sound improvement.  :tup:
Dilligaf

Offline Deerelk37

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I won't pretend I know the answer but I will say something needs to be done..and soon. I've been hunting elk annually for 15 years and after a couple cows down, less than 5 bulls seen, more hunters due to logging co closures and lack of predator control, I am ready for a change. Hoof rot+bad management has definitely led to less animals over time, yet on the wdfw articles I constantly see that "the herd is too large for its habitat." Simply said...no. Any hunter who goes out every year and especially to other states, knows this to be true. It's no coincidence almost every hunting magazines  and articles  exclude Washington from its list, even though it has vast amounts of land to be hunted. If there isn't an effort for change here I will go to a state that seems a bit more capable of managing its herds. (In fact next year is my plan) Or just stop wasting my time and money altogether and stick to deer. I love hunting elk and hope a new path is paved soon. The experience is where it's at, but coming home with meat can and should be easier. I know guys who won't even hunt here because of the states management of the game. If they cared about the game they'd actually go to mandatory reporting instead of a measly 10$ they penalize you now-whoops I better stop here on the wdfw management.

As an example of permit vs non permit-

ive hunted the Lewis river for years and watched it decline slowly. Still elk there, just a nice steady decline. You could  go 8 bowls in a row and not spot an elk in the LR. Meanwhile over the road in the Margaret there were elk everywhere. Every drainage. Quite honestly you could trip on one.  At least when it was permit only. Same mountain. Different regulations, way different elk population. So it's definitely possible to increase herds with permit regulation, the wdfw needs to strike a better balance. Only thing if it isn't soon...it'll be too late. :twocents: :twocents:

Offline PlateauNDN

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All GMU's that are within the Yakama's hunting area should have the same seasons and regulations that the Yakama's adhere to, in my opinion. If you can't beat them, join them. After all, the treaty says they have the right to hunt "in common" with us. So being that they refuse to limit themselves in any way, I say we do the same. Bull season will be year around, and cow elk season will be September 1 to December 31, no limit to how many elk a person may take. The rest of the state can go to permit only so our elk can be properly managed.

The problem with your theory is we, as Yakamas hunt most of the State. So your theory would not pan out like you envision it. Let's say you get it passed for the 300 units,  we'll then I'd head to the blues or up towards Spokane or heck even the white river watershed area.
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Offline PlateauNDN

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Oh and I'm not picky, so an animal is an animal and it wouldn't bother me if it went open. All the elk would get pushed down into the dark deep nasty stuff where I go and nothing will change for me. :dunno:
If you can read thank a teacher, If you can read in English thank a Marine! 
Not as Lean, Just as Mean, Still a Marine!
He who shed blood with me shall forever be my brother!

"Around this camp, there's only one Chief; the rest are Indians!"

"Give me 15 more minutes, I was dreaming of Beavers!"

Offline Jpmiller

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Oh and I'm not picky, so an animal is an animal and it wouldn't bother me if it went open. All the elk would get pushed down into the dark deep nasty stuff where I go and nothing will change for me. :dunno:

This already happens every year where I hunt. Please stop posting stuff like this more than a few guys might get out of their trucks and I might start seeing this pumpkin patch I keep hearing about and stop seeing elk.

Offline lemondog

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YES,YES,YES! Go help your buddy that draws the quality tag and have the hunt of a lifetime with him or her. See the real thing. Mature herd structure. Awesome rut. Giant bulls and if you are lucky you may be the hunter one day. Heck, most of you guys in those general season camps are really just camping anyway, did it myself. Trust me, my group has been doing it for years now in this state and others and having a blast!

Offline Ironhead

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"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is, that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline bobcat

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All GMU's that are within the Yakama's hunting area should have the same seasons and regulations that the Yakama's adhere to, in my opinion. If you can't beat them, join them. After all, the treaty says they have the right to hunt "in common" with us. So being that they refuse to limit themselves in any way, I say we do the same. Bull season will be year around, and cow elk season will be September 1 to December 31, no limit to how many elk a person may take. The rest of the state can go to permit only so our elk can be properly managed.

The problem with your theory is we, as Yakamas hunt most of the State. So your theory would not pan out like you envision it. Let's say you get it passed for the 300 units,  we'll then I'd head to the blues or up towards Spokane or heck even the white river watershed area.

I'm not sure why you say Yakamas can hunt the whole state. You mean with a hunting license and tag, and following the same seasons and rules that we all do? Yes, that is true. But you surely aren't saying you can hunt the whole state under your non-seasons and non-regulations, and no limits, correct?

Here's a map of the ceded area which is where you are allowed to hunt:


Offline buglebrush

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How can there be 112 hunters voting yes?   :yike:  Most seem to ignore the biggest issue here which is rampant, unmanaged predators.  We are in big trouble folks.   :twocents:

Offline bobdog86

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Like I have said, unless there is full cooperation between state and the Native American population, this is a pointless thread.....period. And I wouldn't expect any type of dialogue happening in my lifetime, our children's. And I don't necessarily blame them. It can not be a one way street, so let's quit fooling ourselves. Oh, and by the way bobcat, do not forget the Nez Perce in the Blues, they "exercise" their rights pretty well.

Offline emac

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Like I have said, unless there is full cooperation between state and the Native American population, this is a pointless thread.....period. And I wouldn't expect any type of dialogue happening in my lifetime, our children's. And I don't necessarily blame them. It can not be a one way street, so let's quit fooling ourselves. Oh, and by the way bobcat, do not forget the Nez Perce in the Blues, they "exercise" their rights pretty well.
I was just going to bring that up. The nez perce put a hurting on the elk in the blues. But from talking to em last year the elk might get a little break now that they are seeing moose in them blues

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Offline Slamadoo

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Is the "yes" vote a knee jerk reaction to the decline in cow tags? I think maybe.

I'm in favor of letting the game management process continue to do its work. Let the biologists and wildlife science do its thing. The North American model has been proven to work. Want evidence? Look at wild turkeys and even elk.

Could we log more? Yes. Could the natives exercise restraint? Yes. However, these things are largely out of the control of WDFW.

I personally love being able to hunt every year and with two little guys approaching hunting age, the idea of having to draw a tag every 2-3 years isn't attractive or acceptable to me.

I encourage every one of you to put your money, time, and energy where your mouth is and support reputable hunting and conservation organizations like RMEF, MDF, TRCP, BHA, and others. I know that many of you already do, but maybe join another group, volunteer, or promote these organizations to others. We can all do more, even if it is only a small amount more.

I love hunting and know that you all do as well. We need to harness and channel this passion towards the most efficient and productive strategies that we can.

Regards

Offline PlateauNDN

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All GMU's that are within the Yakama's hunting area should have the same seasons and regulations that the Yakama's adhere to, in my opinion. If you can't beat them, join them. After all, the treaty says they have the right to hunt "in common" with us. So being that they refuse to limit themselves in any way, I say we do the same. Bull season will be year around, and cow elk season will be September 1 to December 31, no limit to how many elk a person may take. The rest of the state can go to permit only so our elk can be properly managed.

The problem with your theory is we, as Yakamas hunt most of the State. So your theory would not pan out like you envision it. Let's say you get it passed for the 300 units,  we'll then I'd head to the blues or up towards Spokane or heck even the white river watershed area.

I'm not sure why you say Yakamas can hunt the whole state. You mean with a hunting license and tag, and following the same seasons and rules that we all do? Yes, that is true. But you surely aren't saying you can hunt the whole state under your non-seasons and non-regulations, and no limits, correct?

Here's a map of the ceded area which is where you are allowed to hunt:

I've posted it a ton of times on here and you've read them because you were apart of those posts but our areas are beyond that map. Our areas include rez, ceded and U & A. Forgive me (or not) of I don't repost it again or go into detail again.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 07:51:01 AM by PlateauNDN »
If you can read thank a teacher, If you can read in English thank a Marine! 
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Offline KFhunter

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I sure haven't read anything to change my mind about OTC tags.  I've been keeping an eye on 3 herds and they're tiny in the NE corner. 

I guess 30% of normal numbers, either that or they're split off and I'm only see part of the herd  :dunno:   I think they're just far fewer than normal.

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