WDFW Announcement : Help shape future hunting seasons at seven meetings

[rjm5]

a) Bag the 3-point restriction on mule deer bucks and extend the season another full week or just move it back two weeks? It is no doubt responsible for a lot of shot 2-pointers left in the woods by people who made a mistake, and that's a bigger hurt on the herd than opening up the opportunity. Biologically, bucks are excess baggage after the rut. Why not save more pregnant does and give hunters a genuine late season opportunity?

b) End the spike-only restriction on eastside elk and run that season another full week, and move it back a week? We're talking about more opportunity, and since elk hunter numbers appear to be down from 10-15 years ago, and the elk herds appear to be healthy, why not?  Biologically, bulls are excess baggage after the rut and as the winter comes on. Let's enjoy some genuine elk hunting opportunity.

I gotta say I don't agree with this at all. This state needs to start managing for quality instead of quantity. The three point minimum should be kept to give the little bucks a fighting chance. The spike restriction should stay so we still have premium tags on the eastside. If you take the spike restriction away the special permit hunts are not going to be nearly as good. In the good units on east side you have decent shot a 300+ bull. I would like to see all mule deer hunts become a draw like colorado to increase draw odds for everyone and is the only way to effectively manage the mule deer herds for quality.

[Gobble]

I think they should dump the spike only in Ea Wa. This is long overdue.

They should open open up any mule deer buck for youth and 65 over to weed out the lesser buck genes. Too many mature 2 points and small rack deer in certain areas of the state.

[rjm5]

Not really sure why you would want to get rid of the spike only restriction because its going to ruin the special hunts and after a few years most of the areas are going to be hunted out.

[Jerbear]

Dave, you are right, but it ain't going to happen.  I went to one of their meetings on Aug. 7 at White Salmon.  They had stated in their announcement that they were exploring more time for muzzle loaders.  Well I started talking to a couple of them about some of the suggestions made here, and they avoided me like an ugly stepchild.  They wanted to talk about extending muzzle loading season and that was that.  I argued about longer seasons and several other things, but it was not what they wanted to hear and that was that.  I left.

[Dave Workman]

I gotta say I don't agree with this at all. This state needs to start managing for quality instead of quantity. The three point minimum should be kept to give the little bucks a fighting chance. The spike restriction should stay so we still have premium tags on the eastside. If you take the spike restriction away the special permit hunts are not going to be nearly as good. In the good units on east side you have decent shot a 300+ bull. I would like to see all mule deer hunts become a draw like colorado to increase draw odds for everyone and is the only way to effectively manage the mule deer herds for quality.

rjm:
Let me see if I understand this:
You are arguing that Washington mule deer hunting should become solely a trophy-type hunt? Is that right?
You are suggesting that eastside bull elk hunting should become solely a trophy-type hunt as well? Is that right?

What does this accomplish for a "meat hunter?"
Honestly, the overwhelming majority of hunters I encounter don't give a rat's patoot about how may points a bull scores.

[Gobble]

Dave you couldn't be more right. I am personally tired of antler size being the sole focus of the younger generation of hunters. Now don't get me wrong. I love big bucks and have taken some, but I do take great pleasure in taking a animal that is mature that does not have to be a 170 class buck (Kind of the Larry Weishun philosophy) My family loves venison as do I, so when the late season comes around I'm less picky about the size of the animal antlers so I can provide meat for my family, do I need it No,  I make a very very good salary, do I like, yes. It's the experience that should judge a succesful hunt, not the antler size. I have had some of the best hunts where I did not harvest a animal.

Enjoy the experience without placing the success of your hunt on the antler size of the animal Just my 

[rjm5]

Think about what you just said, if you don't care about how many points a bull has than you should have no problem with the spike restriction cause your just hunting an animal for meat. If you want to hunt a branch bull you can always hunt the westside. I agree about the experience of the hunt I don't have to shoot an animal to enjoy it. All I'm saying is if all mule deer hunts were a draw like colorado it would create better odds for special permits and the herd could managed more effectively. If someone wants to kill a meat buck they can always shoot a whitetail or blacktail. If there just meat hunters they could put in for doe tags too. Its kind of funny that you can drive through most units in Colorado and see 190 bucks in the fields because they have successfully managed their herd. I think this would be the best way to manage our deer herd for quality instead of quantity. 

[jadeball1]

How about some more opportunity for youth hunters. A any deer or any elk tag whether it be permit or not would provide excellent opportunity for young hunters to spend time in the woods with there family, friends or mentors. They should be able to have a season for them prior to opening of modern to allow them a little time without the crazyness of opening day. Any animal is a trophy to a child, give them a better chance.

[Gobble]

Think about what you just said, if you don't care about how many points a bull has than you should have no problem with the spike restriction cause your just hunting an animal for meat. If you want to hunt a branch bull you can always hunt the westside. I agree about the experience of the hunt I don't have to shoot an animal to enjoy it. All I'm saying is if all mule deer hunts were a draw like colorado it would create better odds for special permits and the herd could managed more effectively. If someone wants to kill a meat buck they can always shoot a whitetail or blacktail. If there just meat hunters they could put in for doe tags too. Its kind of funny that you can drive through most units in Colorado and see 190 bucks in the fields because they have successfully managed their herd. I think this would be the best way to manage our deer herd for quality instead of quantity. 

That is not what I said. I look for the big bulls and bucks myself, as do most hunters. What I said is the focus has become way too infatuated with the "Score" than the taking of a mature animal. Most of the true hunters out there will look for a big antlered animal (myself included) but I will take a mature animal any day if a shot presents itself. All the hunting shows (esp those based in Texas) have placed way too much focus on "trophy" animals in the 150-170 class as a benchmark and it truly does not represent what is available on public hunting areas in most states and creates false hope, I'm not to saying that there are none here, just that they do not represent the bulk of avail animals . If we only allow the taking of "trophy" animals the lesser mature buck/bulls will do more breeding that will further divide the gene pool. I think by taking "Mature" animals (4+ years old) it will improve the future of all the animals (size wise) Thats all

[Dave Workman]

Dave you couldn't be more right.

Well, ahem, "of course I am!" 

I am personally tired of antler size being the sole focus of the younger generation of hunters. Now don't get me wrong. I love big bucks and have taken some, but I do take great pleasure in taking a animal that is mature that does not have to be a 170 class buck (Kind of the Larry Weishun philosophy) My family loves venison as do I, so when the late season comes around I'm less picky about the size of the animal antlers so I can provide meat for my family, do I need it No,  I make a very very good salary, do I like, yes. It's the experience that should judge a succesful hunt, not the antler size. I have had some of the best hunts where I did not harvest a animal.

Enjoy the experience without placing the success of your hunt on the antler size of the animal Just my 

Your two cents are worth gold anywhere.
Look the WDFW is really in the "watchable wildlife" business these days, let's be honest about that. The more animals that survive a season, including the big bulls, the better that management looks to the rubes every winter who gather to watch the animals at the feeding stations.

What these people don't see are the animals that die from starvation because the winter range couldn't sustain them and they didn't go to a feed lot.

Years ago, when I started elk hunting as a teen, it was the GAME Department and they were interested in seeing that hunters had a genuine chance to notch a tag. Elk seasons ran a couple of weeks with three full weekends and I remember we used to get out of Naches and over Chinook Pass right before snow closed the pass on the last weekend of the season.

There was occasionally a weekend with overlap deer and elk hunting so, as my uncle said, you could "shoot anything with horns" and notch a tag. The herd was healthy, pregnant does and cows had a better chance of getting through a tough winter because there would be fewer bucks and bulls competing for available feed/browse and hunters were happy.

There are more than 100,000 fewer hunters now than in those days. Yet seasons are shorter and more complicated, and that translates to opportunity lost. It also means that the shorter seasons and complicated regulations have driven people away from the sport. They're still hunting, in places like Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and Colorado, but they're NOT HUNTING HERE.

In 1975, this state fielded 346,197 resident hunters and 2,604 non-resident hunters. Grand total: 348,801 hunters.

In 2,000, according to data from the US Fish & Wildlife Service, this state sold 214,969 resident hunting licenses and another 4,390 non-res licenses. Grand total: 219,359 hunters.

If we have healthy herds, and 100K fewer hunters, somebody needs to explain to me why it is that seasons are SHORTER and opportunities are curtailed by "Resource Allocation" regulations that limit people to one type of weapon for one species, even though we can legally only take one animal a year. Why not allow everybody who wants to -- and screw the requirement to apply for a permit and take one of those "master hunter" courses -- go out and hunt with a modern rifle and if not successful, pay maybe $10 for an additional archery and/or muzzleloader permit? 

This increases opportunity, provides more recreational time for hunters who provide the operating revenue for the agency that the bird watchers and tree huggers sure don't, and generally benefits the people who pay the freight for game management here.

But perhaps I preach sedition and revolution. Maybe I just remember how Tom Nelson and I, and a handful of other people who created the Sportsmen's Rights Coalition back in the 1980s put a couple of thousand angry hunters, anglers and gun owners on the capitol steps in Olympia. Twice.

[Gobble]

I'm with ya Dave.

I would even be willing to pay the full tag amount to be able to hunt ELK or Deer in another season (ie Archery, Muzzleloader, etc) Think of the revenue the state could generate with the extra tags being purchased.

[huntnphool]

Think about what you just said, if you don't care about how many points a bull has than you should have no problem with the spike restriction cause your just hunting an animal for meat.

I agree, and would also ask if you're just interested in meat why not apply for cow tags rather than hunting bulls, arguably they are better eating anyway. Why even hunt at all then, its far cheaper to go to the store and purchase beef for your family if all you are interested in is "providing meat for my family" I'm not trying to bust your chops Gobble so please dont take it that way, your posts just didn't make sense to me, sounded kinda hypocritical is all.

[Gobble]

Think about what you just said, if you don't care about how many points a bull has than you should have no problem with the spike restriction cause your just hunting an animal for meat.

I agree, and would also ask if you're just interested in meat why not apply for cow tags rather than hunting bulls, arguably they are better eating anyway. Why even hunt at all then, its far cheaper to go to the store and purchase beef for your family if all you are interested in is "providing meat for my family" I'm not trying to bust your chops Gobble so please dont take it that way, your posts just didn't make sense to me, sounded kinda hypocritical is all.

No offense Huntingphool, I think my comments are being taken out of context.  Like I said before I make very good money, I don't NEED the meat. We just like it, if you don't like it you shouldn't be out hunting them  , it' kind of falls on the unethical line there  All I'm saying is I would like to see it open more for the general public to take the big animals during the general season without being forced to take a spike. Its great if your the one sitting on 10+ points for the draw I could see your facination with the special draws but what about the new guy who has none? It really stinks, put yourself in his shoes. 20 years could go by before a guy with no points gets drawn if they are just starting out, if your 40+ years old your screwed. I look for big deer/elk just like everybody else and do pretty well. I have taken all of my animals on public ground. I just think that there is becoming too many snobs that are looking down on people exercising the right to take any legal animal, I don't think anyone should be ashamed for doing so.

[huntnphool]

I hear ya Gobble, I am 40+ and seriously thought I would die before I drew a moose tag. 13 years of apps and it didnt look good. I even started a post months ago asking if I could "will" my points to one of my kids should something happen to me, I wouldn't want the points lost but I guess that cant be done, fortunatly I drew.

The problem F&G have is there are more hunters that want quantity than there are hunters that want quality, and like verything else the squeeky wheel gets the grease. Far more of them crying about the regs than us, consiquently they manage for numbers. I have been a big proponent for the more open units going to 4 point but it has been argued that this doesnt work. I have pointed out that in other states, Montana for example, this has worked very well and are the most applied for hunts in these states. I have talked with dozens of guys that have drawn these tags and all of them siad the hunt was increadable, they said they saw loads of big bucks, bucks that would not be passed up in other areas but because of the number of large bucks they passed. Now this is deer of course not elk but you get the idea.

[tlbradford]

The only problem I have for trophy elk management, is the fact that Indians can go and shoot them off the reservation and harvest an animal that was paid for by taxpayers dollars, which is something they do not contribute to.  I think this is a major issue that needs to be addressed if we are to move in that direction.