Would you buy an aluminum F-150?

[netcoyote]

New F-150 just announced by Ford in an article in the WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303612804577531282227138686.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

    July 26, 2012, 3:36 p.m. ET

Ford Plans New Pickup With Aluminum Body to Boost Mileage


ALLEN PARK, Mich.—In this suburb just west of Detroit, Ford Motor Co. F -0.17% is working on one of the biggest gambles in its 108-year history: a pickup truck with a largely aluminum body.

The radical redesign will help meet tougher federal fuel-economy targets now starting to have wide-ranging effects on Detroit's auto makers. But Ford will have to overcome a host of manufacturing obstacles, plus convince die-hard pickup buyers that aluminum is as tough as steel.

Ford is hoping the switch to the lighter metal will cut the weight of its F-150 truck by about 700 pounds, according to Ford executives familiar with the company's plans. That is roughly a 15% reduction for the F-150, which is the company's most popular pickup in the U.S., favored by farmers and suburbanites alike. Such a reduction would enable Ford's trucks to go farther on a gallon of gasoline, and open the door to other changes, such as the use of smaller engines, that can further boost fuel economy. Along with the aluminum makeover, the new F-150 also is getting a more muscular look, according to one Ford designer.

In the summer of 2011, the Obama administration pushed through new fuel-economy regulations that would require the U.S. vehicle fleet to average 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025. The requirements ramp up fuel economy goals for vehicles of different sizes each year.

The new Ford truck is being designed to come out in 2014 capable of hitting the increasing fuel economy standards through 2020, one of the executives familiar with its plans said. That would equate to roughly a 25% improvement in fuel economy. One of Ford's most popular trucks, the 2012 F-150 four-wheel drive with the 3.5-liter V6 engine, now gets 17 miles per gallon combined city and highway mileage.

The aluminum body is being used for the F-150 only; the larger F-250 and other Ford heavy trucks don't fall under the new fuel-economy standards.

There are currently 10 different versions of the F-150, starting in price from $23,500 to $49,030. Last year, Ford sold 584,917 F-series trucks of all stripes in the U.S. Ford doesn't break out sales of the F-150 from other F-series models, but the F-150 accounts for about 75% of the total, according to registration data collected by Experian Automotive.

Ford isn't giving details on the next F-150, including how much aluminum will be used. "Aluminum is certainly a big opportunity for weight reduction," on the F-150, Raj Nair, the global chief of product development, said in an interview earlier this year. "We have been public that weight reduction is going to be a big part of our strategy."

Using aluminum could put Ford in a tough competitive position against GM and Chrysler Group LLC, the other heavyweights in pickup trucks. Aluminum is more expensive than steel, and extensive use could drive up costs, cut the F-series' hefty profit margins, or push away price-sensitive customers. Aluminum also is trickier to work with. The switch will require investment in hundreds of millions of dollars in new manufacturing equipment, and the use of auto-assembly techniques that pose challenges in high-volume production.

There is also risk that Ford will offend pickup purists who want the toughest truck around, not necessarily the lightest truck around. Doug Scott, the F-150 marketing manager, said durability and reliability will be a key in the next truck, just as they are in the current model. A Ford spokesman noted Ford already uses aluminum control arms on its F-150 SVT Raptor, a four-wheel-drive truck designed for the most punishing off-road use.

Mike Shaw, who owns more than a dozen dealerships in Colorado, including those selling Chevrolet, GMC and Ford, said his truck buyers might balk at first at a truck with a lot of aluminum parts. "There is going to be a certain percentage of the people that will going to bitch and complain, but they will ultimately get that vehicle," he said. "They may hold off for a little and keep their old ones longer. Then they will buy a new one."

[quadrafire]

Is aluminum any less durable than the plastic that my 150 body already has?  The bed won't even hold a magnet.

[whacker1]

pro and con potential across the board?
is it more flexible to prevent small dents or more ridgid causing more creases?
is it going to be louder or quiter with respects to road noise?

I can almost gaurantee that it will cost more to repair once damaged
lighter weight is typically better for off road applications in addition to the fuel economy, tire wear, brake wear, and suspension wear.

will it hold paint?  We don't need spotted vehicles from the Flaky Ford, Chevy, and Dodges of the 80"s

Can you polish it like huntphools boat?

[Curly]

Yeah, body work is probably going to be real expensive..............thus insurance rates maybe expensive as well.  Too bad they can't simply use diesel motors like they use overseas and get 30+ mpg.........

[whacker1]

Ford has been working on diesel block (all aluminum) for the f150, but has had difficulties getting it to sustain the pressures needed to maintain the emmission requirements and fuel economy requirements. 

Someday congress will figure out that emission requirements per gall of fuel does not make sense unless you balance it against mileage.  50% cleaner emissions does not balance if you are required to burn 50% more fuel to achieve those emissions. 

Why does  a 1984 Chevy Citation get 32 mpg and yet the current advertisements for vehicles are 32 mpg?

This is my favorite argument for despising government, and i will step down off my soap box now...

[JimmyHoffa]

Governments make money off gas taxes, so I've heard that is why mileage comes second to emissions.
As for paint, I'd imagine they could just do the anodized paint for it; any idea what the costs for a body panel would be to anodize (just a primer base)?

[jeepasaurusrex]

They have been making replacement bodies for Jeeps for years. They are lighter, stronger, and will not rust out like steel bodies do. I think its a great idea. I think the bed will need some reinforcements though..

[magnanimous_j]

Why does  a 1984 Chevy Citation get 32 mpg and yet the current advertisements for vehicles are 32 mpg?

Race a 1984 Chevy Citation against a 2012 Ford Focus with 19" alloys, full electronics suite, AC blasting. Notice how smoother and quieter the ride in the focus is, how you just smoked the Citation and then see how much cleaner the emissions are.

More to the story than straight MPG.

[whacker1]

Why does  a 1984 Chevy Citation get 32 mpg and yet the current advertisements for vehicles are 32 mpg?

Race a 1984 Chevy Citation against a 2012 Ford Focus with 19" alloys, full electronics suite, AC blasting. Notice how smoother and quieter the ride in the focus is, how you just smoked the Citation and then see how much cleaner the emissions are.

More to the story than straight MPG.

I don't disagree with your analysis.

But take a 2011 F-250 6.7 Powerstroke and drop the 9 feet of emissions off the exhaust, add a programmer and pick up 100-150 hp and 200-250 foot lbs of torque and add 4.5 miles per gallon on average.  500+ hp and 1000 foot lbs of torque.  18-19 mpg in town and 22-24 mpg on the highway. 

This emmissions argument needs the priorities re-focussed.  Emissions are important, but at what cost?

[Heredoggydoggy]

The main problem with aluminum is corrosion.  Jaguar used aluminum in their car bodies back in the 50's and 60's, and in States like Massachusetts that use pure rock salt on the roads in winter, I remember seeing corroded Jaguar bodies everywhere.  Aluminum has been used in aircraft and there are airplanes built in the 1950's that are still flying.  Let an aircraft go down in salt water, however, and it dissolves in a few years.  I drove through Michigan a few years back, and it was rare to see a steel-bodied car that didn't have rust holes if it was two years old or more.

[Atroxus]

If it's good enough to use in aircraft, I don't see any reason not to use it in cars/trucks. 

[Heredoggydoggy]

If it's good enough to use in aircraft, I don't see any reason not to use it in cars/trucks. 

I think it can be used in places where it is not exposed to corrosion.  I recently sols a 1995 Miata that had an aluminum hood, mainly to keep the weight/balance of the car as close to 50%x50% front to rear axle as possible.  This was so critical to the handling characteristics of the car that owners were warned that if the hood needed to be replaced, not to accept the cost-saving steel replacement hood, as it would make the car drive like a truck.  OK for a truck, but not a sports car. 

[Miles]

If it's good enough to use in aircraft, I don't see any reason not to use it in cars/trucks. 

I think it can be used in places where it is not exposed to corrosion.  I recently sols a 1995 Miata that had an aluminum hood, mainly to keep the weight/balance of the car as close to 50%x50% front to rear axle as possible.  This was so critical to the handling characteristics of the car that owners were warned that if the hood needed to be replaced, not to accept the cost-saving steel replacement hood, as it would make the car drive like a truck.  OK for a truck, but not a sports car. 

Are you implying that the Miata is a sports car?     

[Heredoggydoggy]

If it's good enough to use in aircraft, I don't see any reason not to use it in cars/trucks. 

I think it can be used in places where it is not exposed to corrosion.  I recently sols a 1995 Miata that had an aluminum hood, mainly to keep the weight/balance of the car as close to 50%x50% front to rear axle as possible.  This was so critical to the handling characteristics of the car that owners were warned that if the hood needed to be replaced, not to accept the cost-saving steel replacement hood, as it would make the car drive like a truck.  OK for a truck, but not a sports car. 

Are you implying that the Miata is a sports car?     

Yup, 4 cylinder engine, rear wheel drive, and with the right tires it cornered like it had Velcro on the wheels.  Put a tubocharger and suspension kit on it and you had the performance of a Honda S, and still had $1,000 in your pocket.  Not much of an off-road vehicle, though.    Sold it to the wife of a friend who had an MG years ago.  She loves it. 

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

 

Yeah, body work is probably going to be real expensive..............thus insurance rates maybe expensive as well.  Too bad they can't simply use diesel motors like they use overseas and get 30+ mpg.........

Then they would have to raise fuel taxes to cover the loss of revenue and no politician wants to take credit for raising the cost of an already over priced commodity.

[Dhoey07]

If it's good enough to use in aircraft, I don't see any reason not to use it in cars/trucks. 

I think it can be used in places where it is not exposed to corrosion.  I recently sols a 1995 Miata that had an aluminum hood, mainly to keep the weight/balance of the car as close to 50%x50% front to rear axle as possible.  This was so critical to the handling characteristics of the car that owners were warned that if the hood needed to be replaced, not to accept the cost-saving steel replacement hood, as it would make the car drive like a truck.  OK for a truck, but not a sports car. 

Are you implying that the Miata is a sports car?     

Yup, 4 cylinder engine, rear wheel drive, and with the right tires it cornered like it had Velcro on the wheels.  Put a tubocharger and suspension kit on it and you had the performance of a Honda S, and still had $1,000 in your pocket.  Not much of an off-road vehicle, though.    Sold it to the wife of a friend who had an MG years ago.  She loves it. 

Sounds cool.......Except it's a miata 

[NRA4LIFE]

I wouldn't buy one made out of steel, so no.

[jeepasaurusrex]

Isn't the Miata the official pace vehicle for the gay pride parade?   

[bearpaw]

I would like to see a 4x4 pickup that gets 30+ mpg, I don't care what it's made of as long as it is reliable and cheap to operate. It really upsets me when I go to NZ/AU and everyone is driving new diesel toyota and nissan pickups that get 30+ and they can't sell them in the USA. 

[whacker1]

I would like to see a 4x4 pickup that gets 30+ mpg, I don't care what it's made of as long as it is reliable and cheap to operate. It really upsets me when I go to NZ/AU and everyone is driving new diesel toyota and nissan pickups that get 30+ and they can't sell them in the USA. 

 

[farmin4u_98948]

They have been using all aluminum in semi trucks for years. Even my old  1976 kenworth k 100  had aluminum frame and cab.

[Heredoggydoggy]

Isn't the Miata the official pace vehicle for the gay pride parade?   

No, Subaru takes all honors as the vehicle of choice for the gays and lesbians!     

[wraithen]

My only concern is metal fatigue with aluminum. it seems to like to break before it bends when you get it 1\4 inch or so thick. I think trucks won't last more than about 10 years with occasional trail abuse. As for being tough for holding up to normal driving conditions i hthink they will be just fine as long as the shape is engineered to take up the abuse of towing and still compliment enough for off road use.

[washelkhunter]

I would like to see a 4x4 pickup that gets 30+ mpg, I don't care what it's made of as long as it is reliable and cheap to operate. It really upsets me when I go to NZ/AU and everyone is driving new diesel toyota and nissan pickups that get 30+ and they can't sell them in the USA. 

 

Im jonesen for a diesel tacoma or wrangler!   

[Dhoey07]

Isn't the Miata the official pace vehicle for the gay pride parade?   

No, Subaru takes all honors as the vehicle of choice for the gays and lesbians!     

Because a miata is wayyyyyyyy less gay than a STI

[Heredoggydoggy]

I think aluminum could be used in a lot of the more cosmetic parts to save weight, like hoods, doors, etc.  Not so much in structural use.  Heck, the Ranger pickups came with fiberglass hoods and fenders, and were virtually indistinguishable from steel parts.  by the way, I think Ford is making a big mistake in cancelling the Ranger line of trucks.  I, for one, have no use for a full size truck, but the Ranger was the ideal size for my use. 

[wraithen]

The ranger may die but I doubt the b2000 mazda will. If it does someone will come along with a similar design.

[Heredoggydoggy]

The ranger may die but I doubt the b2000 mazda will. If it does someone will come along with a similar design.

The Ranger and Mazda pickups come off the same assembly line.  They are exactly the same truck except for some sheet metal and interior parts.  They must have something to replace the Rangers because they have been one of the best selling models ever.  I figure they just couldn't put all the computerized crap in the old Ranger design, so they have to redesign and rename it.

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

There are these trucks out there called tacomas, way better than a ranger, give em a shot!

Actually Toyota messed up when they made em
Bigger, why get a mile or two better per gallon than a full size for a smaller truck at almost the same price?!! The old Tacomas rocked!!!!

[Heredoggydoggy]

I know a lot of people that have Toyota pickups and love them.  I, however, have had and liked my Rangers so much, that after my '91 Ranger was totalled in an accident, and I got an '07 GMC Canyon pickup to replace it, (BIG mistake!) I got a chance to buy a '90 Bronco II that a neighbor's brother inherited when his dad passed away, and I love driving it.  I did look for a Tacoma to replace the wrecked Ranger, but there wasn't much to choose from in January.  So I ended up with the POS Canyon pickup. 

[washelkhunter]

Nows the time to p/up a good used ranger, the demand and price is only going to go up.

[Heredoggydoggy]

Nows the time to p/up a good used ranger, the demand and price is only going to go up.

   Don't think that I haven't considered it!

[predatorpro]

Is aluminum any less durable than the plastic that my 150 body already has?  The bed won't even hold a magnet.

aluminum has a memory...so no i would never buy a truck with an aluminum frame!

[wraithen]

Is aluminum any less durable than the plastic that my 150 body already has?  The bed won't even hold a magnet.

aluminum has a memory...so no i would never buy a truck with an aluminum frame!

Splain please. Do you mean it wants to revert back to previous shapes? Or that it will corrode quickly?

[magnanimous_j]

The Ranger and Mazda pickups come off the same assembly line.  They are exactly the same truck except for some sheet metal and interior parts.  They must have something to replace the Rangers because they have been one of the best selling models ever.  I figure they just couldn't put all the computerized crap in the old Ranger design, so they have to redesign and rename it.

I sold Fords for 4 years and I love the ranger (I owned 2). But it was an old design, got terrible gas mileage for the power output, and was almost as expensive as an F-150.

Ford isn't dumb, they'll come out with another small truck.

[Heredoggydoggy]

I sold Fords for 4 years and I love the ranger (I owned 2). But it was an old design, got terrible gas mileage for the power output, and was almost as expensive as an F-150.

Ford isn't dumb, they'll come out with another small truck.

I hope so.  I too owned 2 Rangers.  The first was a 1984 with the 2.8 v-6  (semi-OK, 27 mpg.)  The second was a 1991 with the 2.9 fuel injected V-6.  (Great engine, 28 mpg with a tailwind!)  Sadly, at only 183,000 miles, it got totalled in an accident.  Didn't realize what a wonderful vehicle I had until I lost it!