Mechanicals are illegal, right? Why?

[pianoman9701]

sounds to me you need to get your bow tuned..I have owned 10 different bows and have shot a multitude of broadheads since and I have had no difference in fieldtips and broadheads...paper tuned?

I'm paper tuned beautifully which is why I'm still mystified that I can't get my broadheads to cooperate.

This doesn't mean your broadheads and bow are tuned. Once you paper tune, you need to start shooting at 20 yards (at least that's what I do). The grouping of the broadheads and field points will be the same once you've adjusted your arrow rest based on where your broadheads hit. Shoot the field tips first to adjust your sights. Once your field tips are hitting the bull, then shoot your broadhead. If the broadhead isn't hitting the same place, then you have to move your arrow rest in the direction you want the arrow to move (i.e. if the broadhead hits to the left, you want to move your rest slightly to the right, or the direction you want your broadhead to be moved for the correction). Here's a really good video that demonstrates this simply. Bow Tuning Tips / Broadhead Tuning

Also, if your shaft spine isn't correct for your bow and weight, the field points can hit right and the broadheads can plane off. Make sure you're matching spine to draw length and weight. Your local bow guy can help with that. Good luck.

I

[colockumelk]

The Ulmer Edge looks fantastic. Next year when their 125 grain model comes out this will be my head of choice. Recently on Archery Talk a guy tested something like 40 different heads. Both mechanical and fixed. He used 8" of ballistic gel sandwhiched between two pieces of 1/4" plywood and some sort of blue cover. The Ulmer Edge (an expandable) by far out penetrated them ALL. Most heads (Slick Trick, Muzzy, Wasps, G5 Montec, Stryker, Wacem, Thunderhead, VPA) penetrated 8-10". The Ulmer Edge blew threw it all and stuck about 6" into the broadhead Target. The other head that penetrated almost all the way through (fletchings were all that was left in the gel) was the Shuttle T Black Ops.

As far as the Ulmer Edge goes I'm pretty sure Randy Ulmer, Rusty Ulmer and Dan Evans knows what they are doing. The chances of that head failing is the same as a fixed head failing. It also has the same chance of deflecting.

Matt is correct. The Ulmer Edge is plain nasty when it comes to damage it causes on animals.

[colockumelk]

Here are the results. Dur = Durability, Pen=Penetration, Dep= Dependability , SB= Sharpness Before, SA= Sharpness After.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgJEvQwzfDRZdGxzdC15R0JIZDJGQ1J4bVpGV1pTWHc

[steeleywhopper]

After a huge amount of ongoing effort and testing of various scenarios with fixed blade broadheads I'm just not getting the kind of grouping I expect.  I get excellent grouping to 60 yards with field points but my broadheads do something completely different with no grouping to speak of.

So why is it that mechanicals are illegal for big game in this state anyway?  Is there something inherently wrong with today's mechanical broadheads?  Are they not an acceptable tool to get the job done for some reason?  Maybe this is one of those rules that will eventually be overturned in Washington like it is in most other states and we just need to bide our time until that happens?  What are the recognized archery organizations in this state saying about legalizing mechanicals?

Too many do-gooders out there think our state and animals are too good for them. My opinion. If you don't like them then don't use them.

[colockumelk]

Exactly.

[BOWHUNTER45]

sounds to me you need to get your bow tuned..I have owned 10 different bows and have shot a multitude of broadheads since and I have had no difference in fieldtips and broadheads...paper tuned?

I'm paper tuned beautifully which is why I'm still mystified that I can't get my broadheads to cooperate.

This doesn't mean your broadheads and bow are tuned. Once you paper tune, you need to start shooting at 20 yards (at least that's what I do). The grouping of the broadheads and field points will be the same once you've adjusted your arrow rest based on where your broadheads hit. Shoot the field tips first to adjust your sights. Once your field tips are hitting the bull, then shoot your broadhead. If the broadhead isn't hitting the same place, then you have to move your arrow rest in the direction you want the arrow to move (i.e. if the broadhead hits to the left, you want to move your rest slightly to the right, or the direction you want your broadhead to be moved for the correction). Here's a really good video that demonstrates this simply. Bow Tuning Tips / Broadhead Tuning

Also, if your shaft spine isn't correct for your bow and weight, the field points can hit right and the broadheads can plane off. Make sure you're matching spine to draw length and weight. Your local bow guy can help with that. Good luck.

I

ALL THIS IS FUNNY  I mentioned this on here once and a few bow pros went on to say your crazy and if your bow is in tune you do not have to line up your fletching with your broadheads ...Well I have done that for as long as I have been shooting a bow and never intend to change 

[deleted BGS]

not allowing mechanicals, I dont care, might use them, but to stir it up I got into the long debated topic of using lighted nocks today... 

[Band]

sounds to me you need to get your bow tuned..I have owned 10 different bows and have shot a multitude of broadheads since and I have had no difference in fieldtips and broadheads...paper tuned?

I'm paper tuned beautifully which is why I'm still mystified that I can't get my broadheads to cooperate.

This doesn't mean your broadheads and bow are tuned. Once you paper tune, you need to start shooting at 20 yards (at least that's what I do). The grouping of the broadheads and field points will be the same once you've adjusted your arrow rest based on where your broadheads hit. Shoot the field tips first to adjust your sights. Once your field tips are hitting the bull, then shoot your broadhead. If the broadhead isn't hitting the same place, then you have to move your arrow rest in the direction you want the arrow to move (i.e. if the broadhead hits to the left, you want to move your rest slightly to the right, or the direction you want your broadhead to be moved for the correction). Here's a really good video that demonstrates this simply. Bow Tuning Tips / Broadhead Tuning

Also, if your shaft spine isn't correct for your bow and weight, the field points can hit right and the broadheads can plane off. Make sure you're matching spine to draw length and weight. Your local bow guy can help with that. Good luck.

I

Thanks for the video link, Pianoman.  I've been so caught up with getting my paper tuning perfect that I didn't take the next step so now I'm going to try following this guy's tips about moving my rest to "tune the broadheads", although I'll pass on his advice to line up the fletchings with the broadhead blades which seems unnecessary to me.

If adjusting the rest doesn't work the next thing I'm going to try is a stiffer-spined arrow.  The charts have me at 400's, which I have shot all along, but if necessary I'll get 1/2 dozen 340's and see how they perform.

Thanks, fellas!

[pianoman9701]

I just switched to 340s - 60 lbs at 30 inches draw - and my groups have really pulled tight. Go get 'em.

[ribka]

Almost 80 years ago Pope and Young used to take animals over 100 yds with homemade arrows bows and broad heads


I can shoot COC Magnus in tight groups out to80 yds


Tuning problem

After a huge amount of ongoing effort and testing of various scenarios with fixed blade broadheads I'm just not getting the kind of grouping I expect.  I get excellent grouping to 60 yards with field points but my broadheads do something completely different with no grouping to speak of.

So why is it that mechanicals are illegal for big game in this state anyway?  Is there something inherently wrong with today's mechanical broadheads?  Are they not an acceptable tool to get the job done for some reason?  Maybe this is one of those rules that will eventually be overturned in Washington like it is in most other states and we just need to bide our time until that happens?  What are the recognized archery organizations in this state saying about legalizing mechanicals?

[fly4fish]

Looks like this should be two threads. 

Original poster, are your arrows fletched at the maximum helical to induce the most spin.  I started scraping the fetching off of my arrows and putting my own on with an "Arizona Fletcher" and that helped out a lot for my broadhead flight.  If you are shooting broadheads at all directions from your field points, then it is hard to tune your broadheads to shoot the same.

[BOWHUNTER45]

sounds to me you need to get your bow tuned..I have owned 10 different bows and have shot a multitude of broadheads since and I have had no difference in fieldtips and broadheads...paper tuned?

I'm paper tuned beautifully which is why I'm still mystified that I can't get my broadheads to cooperate.

Band , why does it seem unnecessary to you to line up the vanes with the broadhead ...seems like a no brain er to me ...if the vanes and broadhead are not lined up with each then when the arrow is released from the bow the vanes and broadhead are fighting each other going threw the air making the air not fly as true ... take 2 arrows one that's not lined up with the vanes and one that is and using the same head and arrow and see if there is a difference ...most likely their will be !! 

This doesn't mean your broadheads and bow are tuned. Once you paper tune, you need to start shooting at 20 yards (at least that's what I do). The grouping of the broadheads and field points will be the same once you've adjusted your arrow rest based on where your broadheads hit. Shoot the field tips first to adjust your sights. Once your field tips are hitting the bull, then shoot your broadhead. If the broadhead isn't hitting the same place, then you have to move your arrow rest in the direction you want the arrow to move (i.e. if the broadhead hits to the left, you want to move your rest slightly to the right, or the direction you want your broadhead to be moved for the correction). Here's a really good video that demonstrates this simply. Bow Tuning Tips / Broadhead Tuning

Also, if your shaft spine isn't correct for your bow and weight, the field points can hit right and the broadheads can plane off. Make sure you're matching spine to draw length and weight. Your local bow guy can help with that. Good luck.

I

Thanks for the video link, Pianoman.  I've been so caught up with getting my paper tuning perfect that I didn't take the next step so now I'm going to try following this guy's tips about moving my rest to "tune the broadheads", although I'll pass on his advice to line up the fletchings with the broadhead blades which seems unnecessary to me.

If adjusting the rest doesn't work the next thing I'm going to try is a stiffer-spined arrow.  The charts have me at 400's, which I have shot all along, but if necessary I'll get 1/2 dozen 340's and see how they perform.

Thanks, fellas!

[fly4fish]

I don't' think tuning your bow for broadheads will make you group any better (will it?), but more so just make them group with your field points.  If your field points are grouping fine, then your broadheads should be grouping as well if your bow is tuned correctly, maybe just not in the same place.  That is when moving the rest a little in the direction of the field point will make your broadheads group with your field points. First you have to get the broadheads to group by themselves before you need to worry about that.

That is why I think your problem either lies in the arrow spine or the angle of the fetching.  I was not grouping well at one time with my broadheads, but my field points were.  I put on new fetching with the maximum angle, and now the broadheads fly just as good as my field points. 

Are your vanes factory installed? If so, check the angle.  As for lining up the broadheads with the fetching, it may not make a huge difference, but it wont hurt and it just looks better when looking down the arrow.  Why not line them up is the question?

[BOWHUNTER45]

Here are the results. Dur = Durability, Pen=Penetration, Dep= Dependability , SB= Sharpness Before, SA= Sharpness After.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgJEvQwzfDRZdGxzdC15R0JIZDJGQ1J4bVpGV1pTWHc

Clockum ... thanks but I can not see on this sheet where they stated what grain broadheads they used ....thats the problem with these test we have no way of knowing what they are doing .....they all should use the same weight head and the same arrows and the same poundage of bow ...

[lokidog]

Disclaimer:  I am not a bow tuning expert.....

I started fletching my own arrows this year.  While I was trying to sight in and such I discovered my arrows liked to group in different places (slightly).  I numbered my arrows and discovered that they did usually go to the same place each time.  A couple I stripped the fletches as they were obviously off for some reason.  Factory arrows might be fletched more uniformly than my beginning attempts though.

The other thing, as also mentioned, is that you might need a stiffer arrow.  According to the charts, my arrows with my previous bow should have worked fine, but there were some consistency issues.  When I got some slightly stiffer arrows, the group tightened up quite a bit.  I still target shoot with my old arrows but they definitely group more loosely than the stiffer ones.

Good luck.