steadiness: how important is it to you?

[Cascade_fisher]

I'm in the broke dog group. Steady to wing and shot.

[Happy Gilmore]

It is very important to me.  I hunt quail and pheasants, and my dog is
field trailed as well.  Not only do I keep her steady, I also have to keep her "styled up" as well.  When I drop her off for the spring circuit it's typical for me to hunt her the weekend prior to the start of trial season.  The trainer doesn't have time to steady her up if I let her go.  For covey birds there is no better do then a fully broke dog IMO.  However, for pheasants, I could see where a dog that is only steady to wing could be an advantage.  But, not always.  Last year in SD I knocked down a bird into a dirt field over a dog that was only broke to wing.  The bird hit the ground running and came right back at me towards the milo. I was going to finish it off before it made the milo but the dog was right on its tail.  Unfortunately the bird won the foot race and we never found it.  Had I been hunting over a broke dog that bird would have been smoked since I wouldn't have needed to worry about shooting the dog.

or get a dog that doesn't point wounded runners...

[LiveandLearn]

Waterfowl dogs meed to be steady imo. Speaking strictly for hunting pheasants as long as you can call a dog off one bird and onto another I don't think it matters. For every story about a bird that someone got because there dog didn't break there is one because the dog got onto a cripple fast enough because it did break.

[jetjockey]

It is very important to me.  I hunt quail and pheasants, and my dog is
field trailed as well.  Not only do I keep her steady, I also have to keep her "styled up" as well.  When I drop her off for the spring circuit it's typical for me to hunt her the weekend prior to the start of trial season.  The trainer doesn't have time to steady her up if I let her go.  For covey birds there is no better do then a fully broke dog IMO.  However, for pheasants, I could see where a dog that is only steady to wing could be an advantage.  But, not always.  Last year in SD I knocked down a bird into a dirt field over a dog that was only broke to wing.  The bird hit the ground running and came right back at me towards the milo. I was going to finish it off before it made the milo but the dog was right on its tail.  Unfortunately the bird won the foot race and we never found it.  Had I been hunting over a broke dog that bird would have been smoked since I wouldn't have needed to worry about shooting the dog.

or get a dog that doesn't point wounded runners...

I wish it would have stopped and pointed, then I could have killed it.  The way it was running I knew if it hit the milo it was gone.  Even our small Brits were getting slowed down by the knocked down milo, but the pheasants had super speedways underneath.  That stuff tears dogs up once it's been knocked over by snow.  But the birds also hold a lot better as well.

[Happy Gilmore]

It is very important to me.  I hunt quail and pheasants, and my dog is
field trailed as well.  Not only do I keep her steady, I also have to keep her "styled up" as well.  When I drop her off for the spring circuit it's typical for me to hunt her the weekend prior to the start of trial season.  The trainer doesn't have time to steady her up if I let her go.  For covey birds there is no better do then a fully broke dog IMO.  However, for pheasants, I could see where a dog that is only steady to wing could be an advantage.  But, not always.  Last year in SD I knocked down a bird into a dirt field over a dog that was only broke to wing.  The bird hit the ground running and came right back at me towards the milo. I was going to finish it off before it made the milo but the dog was right on its tail.  Unfortunately the bird won the foot race and we never found it.  Had I been hunting over a broke dog that bird would have been smoked since I wouldn't have needed to worry about shooting the dog.

or get a dog that doesn't point wounded runners...

  That stuff tears dogs up once it's been knocked over by snow.  But the birds also hold a lot better as well.

that's just crop damage from all the locals that hunt with retrievers...

[jetjockey]

Na, it's private land and they dont allow toilet dogs on it.

[Happy Gilmore]

Na, it's private land and they dont allow toilet dogs on it.

lol...... Sorry, you can't have a meat dog and a field trial dog no matter how bad you want it to be.....A meat dog will out hunt a field trial dog every day of the week.

[jetjockey]

Na, it's private land and they dont allow toilet dogs on it.

lol...... Sorry, you can't have a meat dog and a field trial dog no matter how bad you want it to be.....A meat dog will out hunt a field trial dog every day of the week.

Wanna bet?  But my question is, what's a meat dog?  And what's a trial dog?  Is a dog that hunts for meat 90% of the time but runs in a few broke stake walking trials a meat dog or a trial dog? What about a dog that trials 90% of the time but hunts 10% of the time.  What about a dog that does both 50% of the time.  What about a dog who is used for guiding 100% off horse on a southern quail plantation that is a retired FC?  Is that a trial dog or a meat dog?  How do you tell a trial dog from a meat dog when you are picking out an 8 week old pup?  Id love to know how to pick one out because my dog was supposed to be a meat dog, but she runs trials as well.  The pup that was going to be given to me that I had my dad take was a field trial reject, but now she's one of the best trial prospects my trainer has seen in years, but she is only hunted.   Please Happy, with all your knowledge please explain it to me. 

[wildweeds]

Your a touch off base happy, for instance I hunted with a FC/AFC/NAFC RU/NFC setter female one year,with that many titles you'd think she be the cats meow..................... wrong my derby aged dog did all of the birdfinding that particular day(she always has been a finder).But I hunted my FC last season on quail in Yakima and the dog found 4 coveys in 45 minutes,his competition was 3 GSPs that are what would be classified as "meat" dogs,never been trialed,are steady to wing,mind well and have hunted alot.To say any one type of dog is better than another be it FT or Meat dog is borderline crazy,at the end of the day no matter the titles or birds counted on the clicker counter........................... it's just a dog,some are great,some are good,lot's ain't worth feeding but..................they are our buddies.

  And for whatever it's worth.................. in my lifetime of dogs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the absolute best was not a FT winner nor would she have been allowed to compete................... She was an unregistered springer spaniel that I got for FREE!!!!She cleaned clocks on everything under the sun breedwise on pheasants and the goofy bitch would point quail on her own.Which was actually kind of nice because you knew "Blue buzzbombs".My FC is a very close second to her,he is the best one I've had in the pointing dogs,the springer was the best overall.

[jetjockey]

Wild.  I agree you.  You can't make a claim that a meat dog is a better hunting dog than a trial dog.  Just like you can't say a trial dog doesn't make a good wild bird dog just because most trials use released birds.  Almost every trial dog out here spends summers in the Dakotas being run on wild birds, but some of those dogs have never been foot hunted so they would be a handful off foot without a little experience. 

If I had to pick one single breed of dog for pheasants, it would hands down be a springer.  They might not be the best early season dog in prairie grass or low fields , but overall, both early season and late season, a springer is dam hard to beat.  We hunt over 6 or 8 of them every year.  They are awesome in milo and anything where a pheasant has a path to really run. Last year we hunted over unsteady meat dogs and one of them was a champion who was fully steady.  Huntin over him was a joy.  He was awesome.  In the grass though, a pointer will still most likely find and pin more birds.  But overall, in all cover, both early and late season, give me a steady springer.

[wildweeds]

Jet

   Concur on the phez in crp grass such as eastern washington where the birds are not as concentrated as the eastern states chink hotbed , a pointing breed just covers more ground,having one that is broke helps the hunter get into position to do some shooting I've had dogs on point 2-300 yards out and farther having them broke allows you to get to em ,but in a creek bottom situation gimme a roto rooter springer.

[LiveandLearn]

pointing them 2-300 yds out in this state allows you to always get them? If you are talking public land, more times than not in this state you do that and the bird has ran to the next county by the time you get up to the dog or the bird has flushed wild. I am not saying you won't get some birds hunting like that, I don't think it is the most effective way to hunt wild birds in Washington.

[Happy Gilmore]

If your hunting the grasslands in SoDak which have milo plots in the middle of good crp you'll never see a dog on point. Maybe on private game ranches where the conditions are closely managed to favor particular dogs and have people grooming the grounds... Wild hunting, CRP which is healthy during bird season should be at shoulder height or taller. Often, where I hunted for two weeks, where we found the most concentrated birds the crp grass was brushing in my face and I'm 6'.

[LiveandLearn]

If your hunting the grasslands in SoDak which have milo plots in the middle of good crp you'll never see a dog on point. Maybe on private game ranches where the conditions are closely managed to favor particular dogs and have people grooming the grounds... Wild hunting, CRP which is healthy during bird season should be at shoulder height or taller. Often, where I hunted for two weeks, where we found the most concentrated birds the crp grass was brushing in my face and I'm 6'.

That is what beeper collars are for 

[jetjockey]

I rarely see my dog on point anyways.  That's why they invented the Garmin Astro.  Sometimes I don't know how we ever hunted without them.  I've hunted the grasslands and depending on the time of year, Happy is right, the stuff is tall.   But we hunt SD mid Nov or later when a lot of the cover has been knocked down by snow.  If anyone ever hunts the grasslands, get off the highway.  Look for the "stairs" on the map.  They are on the west side in the back of the grassland that make up the boarder between the private land and grasslandslands.  There the grasslands butt up against private land.  Lots of birds in that area due to the private land and everyone else hammering the stuff right off the highway.