steadiness: how important is it to you?

[Stilly bay]

this is for retriever and pointer guys.

in the last year I have let my setter slip on being steady to wing and shot, I used to think it was pretty important mainly for a safety factor. I mostly hunt alone so safety isn't a concern, and honestly I think I have recovered more pheasants  because the dog was on them when they came down vs losing shot opportunities because the dog was in the way. to me thats a good thing and it works for me. 

my labs on the other hand know not to budge until released. we hunt along moving water a lot and if a bird comes down with its head up I have to shoot again or a cripple can gain too much distance over a dog way too fast. last thing I want is for a dog to break and run in front of me as Im shooting a cripple. so safety is a huge issue. I also want the dog to go after the birds in the order I want him to go after, not which ever one he wants to go after- its too easy to lose birds down the river if things aren't done properly.

 I can probably count with one hand the amount of rock steady duck dogs I have seen in the field over the years, and even fewer pointing dogs. it seems to be a major safety issue that is overlooked. how important is it to you?

[Happy Gilmore]

Very important. Since you mentioned pheasant: I had my first triple on pheasant last season. I knew Kaie was on to a bunch of birds, saw them run out of the cover into higher grass band then open cut corn behind it so, they had to pause and fly. I hit a whistle sit, first bird flushed, shot it. She marked it DOA. Second bird got up on shot, DOA. Third bird was out further and I shot. Knocked it down and it hit the ground running. Kaie wanted the flopping bird in front of her bad but, I gave her a hard verbal left back to the runner. She took it but, stopped short towards the second DOA bird. I have her another hard whistle sit and cast her back to the area of the runner where she picked up scent and trailed it about 300 yards where she got it on another property which had cattle and was not open to hunting.

She brought back the still alive rooster and I sent her to each of the other two dead birds in the cut corn. It was probably one of the most memorable and proud dog owner days I've ever had....In addition to my first pheasant triple.

Had I not had rock steady control over her and been able to cast her off of the short flopping bird I never would have recovered the running rooster. A trained dog saves game.

[Stilly bay]

talk about ending the pheasant hunt on a high note! I bet you skipped back the truck.

thats a perfect example of why steadiness is crucial. just think if you had a couple more hunters with and a few more birds on the ground, one well trained dog like yours would be worth half a dozen that were out of control.

well trained dogs save game and saving game is good conservation... never did understand why so many pointer guys don't make retrieving and recovery a priority, but thats a can of worms for another day lol

[Bluemoon]

To me it is very important. 
1.  I love to hunt covey birds, Sharptails, Huns, Chucker and Quail,  Even where we hunt Pheasants it is not uncommon to have 20 plus birds in the air.  There are many times we will have multiable birds down on the ground before I send them for the retrieve.   Without the dogs being steady that would never happen they would just blow through the birds that did not get up on the original rise.

2.  This is most important to me.  I guide with all my dogs,  I want them behind the guns out of the line of fire where they are safe.  Some people can get very miopic when the sky is full of birds. 

[Happy Gilmore]

To me it is very important. 
1.  I love to hunt covey birds, Sharptails, Huns, Chucker and Quail,  Even where we hunt Pheasants it is not uncommon to have 20 plus birds in the air.  There are many times we will have multiable birds down on the ground before I send them for the retrieve.   Without the dogs being steady that would never happen they would just blow through the birds that did not get up on the original rise.

2.  This is most important to me.  I guide with all my dogs,  I want them behind the guns out of the line of fire where they are safe.  Some people can get very miopic when the sky is full of birds.

This reminded me of the little demonstration we did at the Puyallup fairgrounds with (I think) Blue and Kaie. People were amazed to see a dog on point(Blue) the bird flushed(wing stripped pigeon from a launcher) cap pistol bang, both dogs remain steady and the retriever pick up the bird in front of the pointer and bring it back un-harmed.

We later released the pigeon to fly away and live happily forever after according to Richard's words to the crowd...

[wildweeds]

Mine are broke,and it's pretty cool,but if there is a minor bobble I don't fret about it much,the thing about breaking them is that once they are broke they may slip a little here or there but it's just a hop and a verbal correction is all that is needed to stop em,generally a sigh of disgust is all it takes.If you have a dog that is just steady to wing when the wheels come off the bus it's a nuclear meltdown chase  of over the horizon.

[Stilly bay]

1.  I love to hunt covey birds, Sharptails, Huns, Chucker and Quail,  Even where we hunt Pheasants it is not uncommon to have 20 plus birds in the air.  T

that is something I forgot to consider when I started this thread. I have been a west side grouser / release site hunter for most of my current hunting dog's career and besides the odd mountain quail or grouse brood, we have never run into a more than a double of anything. I might just get back on the wagon before too long.

Mine are broke,

do you allow them to relocate on pheasants? do you think relocating hurts your dogs steadiness to wing and shot or is two different things?

[wildweeds]

They relocate when I walk up try to flush to no avail then tap them behind the head and in a quiet calm voice say "Careful". Doesn't have anything to do with how steady they are after the shot,two completely different things IMO.I do have one that will self relocate to pin on her own,it's her gig and she does it her way,I used to get mad at her but......................... she's pinned alot of birds with that tactic in her 9 year carreer.She was broke all the way,but really held it against us.A good dog that minds well but her thing is her thing.Sometimes she won't move a muscle and be a perfect angel and other times,she does the circle to pin manuever 3 times,you flush the bird and shoot and she'll be looking at you for the go ahead fetchem up.At the end of the day................... dogs are dogs,going to do some things that tick you off,laugh,make you proud all in the same day.I don't want a mechanical commanded machine,they just don't look like they are having fun and that fun can be just the thing that stands the hair up on the back of your neck......................... And THAT is FUN

[Stilly bay]

................... dogs are dogs,going to do some things that tick you off,laugh,make you proud all in the same day.I don't want a mechanical commanded machine,they just don't look like they are having fun and that fun can be just the thing that stands the hair up on the back of your neck......................... And THAT is FUN

I wouldn't have it any other way.

when my setter starts to relocate on a grouse or pheasant its almost like he shifts down to his lowest gear until he pins the bird, absolutely gives me the chills watching it.

[Blackjaw]

I know this is just supposed to be for Labs and Pointers, but steadiness is critical for my Cockers because I also Field Trial (where it is a requirement). Keeping a dog steady during hunting season is tough/impossible (Ex. how do you know if your dog is steady if it is flushing birds in the middle of the cattails?), so I expect to have to do some 'resteadying' after the season. Hunting with a steady dog has alot of advantages (no chasing birds, no birds flushed out of range (by the dog, of course the latter in the season you get, the more wild flushes you'll get).  I personally think dogs also mark better when they are sitting and concentrating on the fall, but you will get others who disagree.

[AWS]

I've trained my dog to be steady for master level hunt tests but for upland hunting I don't mind that they break or arn't steady.  My dog has won hunting competitions on time alone because she had the retrieve half completed by the time the bird hit the ground. I can stop or recall my dog with a toot of the whistle. 

For waterfowl I want them steady.  There is nothing more frustrating than having a dog break as the birds are coming into the decoys and flare the flock.

[Special T]

My first dog that i trained, Oso a Chessie, almost died because he broke. I was sittign in a pit blind and threw the gun up to shoot some ducks. Oso was sitting next to me on the outside of the pit. When he saw me throw the gun up he learched forward infront of my gun.It went off right by his head. I was shaking so bad i had to quit hunting that day.
My dog now Chief isn't as solid as Happy's dog but Definatly says by my side  and doens't jump the gun.  I Make it a point to work on dog to be steady. 

[jetjockey]

It is very important to me.  I hunt quail and pheasants, and my dog is
field trailed as well.  Not only do I keep her steady, I also have to keep her "styled up" as well.  When I drop her off for the spring circuit it's typical for me to hunt her the weekend prior to the start of trial season.  The trainer doesn't have time to steady her up if I let her go.  For covey birds there is no better do then a fully broke dog IMO.  However, for pheasants, I could see where a dog that is only steady to wing could be an advantage.  But, not always.  Last year in SD I knocked down a bird into a dirt field over a dog that was only broke to wing.  The bird hit the ground running and came right back at me towards the milo. I was going to finish it off before it made the milo but the dog was right on its tail.  Unfortunately the bird won the foot race and we never found it.  Had I been hunting over a broke dog that bird would have been smoked since I wouldn't have needed to worry about shooting the dog.

[Stilly bay]

so far there have been some great responses to the importance of steadiness.... so where are the guys whose dogs are not steady? 

[CP]

so far there have been some great responses to the importance of steadiness.... so where are the guys whose dogs are not steady?

My dog's not steady, he breaks at the 1st gunshot.  He’s dove into a barbed wire fence, over a cliff, through thin ice.  No amount of collar corrections seems to faze him if there is a retrieve to be made.  I’m hoping he’ll grow out of it, if he lives long enough.