Wedge Pack: More cattle attacked in Stevens County (poll and letter)

[denali]

Thanks Bearpaw , well thought out, workable, revised plan

also my understanding was WDFW was to spend time confirming wolves in the Blues this summer instead it looks like "all hands on deck" in stevens co.

[bearpaw]

Well if I am behind then so is everyone else, because I am reading the same info everyone else in the forum is. You are just trying to pile on, because I said the ranchers should move if they are that unhappy etc. That does not phase me. The truth is, wolves are here to stay. The wolves have all the power. They are not going anywhere, so learn to deal with it. And if a rancher or anyone else harms one, then I hope it is worth the prison time. Go ahead forum and pile on, because I really don't care about a bunch of opinions from people I don't know in a chat room. And for all the people CLAIMING there are wolf attacks happening over and over again. I have yet to see any PROOF!! It is all a bunch of wildlife diehards, that spend their off season in the forum telling tales. Show me a video something. Trail cam pics of wolves means nothing. I want to see a ranch wolves on it attacking livestock before I beleive anything. I called the game department regarding some the the claims on here. I was told to not feed in to BEARPAW, because he tends to blow things out of context and makes assumptions without knowing the facts. Not saying BEARPAW is WRONG, just passing on what the game department told me to be aware of. In other words....it is nothing more then internet chatter, tales, stories, etc.

The wolves have all the power.

I called the game department regarding some the the claims on here. I was told to not feed in to BEARPAW, because he tends to blow things out of context and makes assumptions without knowing the facts.

Thanks for your entertaining comments. 

This is the United States. If the people determine that wolves cannot fit, they will be removed. I think this has been proven in the distant past as well as the recent past in numerous locations. Your comment that "wolves have all the power" simply illustrates your mentality.

I would beleive that a few pro-wolf people in WDFW are uncomfortable that so many people question the faulty wolf plan with so many facts and photos that prove the pro-wolf bias and untruthfulness of the flawed wolf plan. I also imagine that a few people in WDFW might be quietly cheering us on as well, who knows. But as professionals I doubt WDFW managers who know me would actually say exactly what you claim they publicly said to someone they do not know over the phone. In spite of differences in opinion with some of the managers, I have great respect for most of them and their ability to act professionally regardless of their personal feelings. I simply do not beleive your claim, I think our WDFW is more professional than that.

Therefore I am going to cut the chase and get right to the point.

I think you are full of *call it whatever you like*. I just appoved your membership a day or two ago. I just now reviewed your posts (every comment in support of wolves) which anyone can do by clicking on your username and looking at your profile. It appears you are nothing more than a wolf lover who joined to try and distract the conversation from the facts with wolf-lover tactics.

Your username appears to be misleading and untruthful, it is my firm belief you are only here to distract the conversation from the info which has been presented and which is now being reported as an official wolf kill in the media.

I am banning you for what appears to be misrepresentation as a hunter and untruthfulness. If you care to contact me and prove you are a hunter who wants to participate on the forum or who in the WDFW actually made the statements you claim they made, then I will gladly discontinue your permanent vacation from this site.

 

[bearpaw]

Thanks Bearpaw , well thought out, workable, revised plan

also my understanding was WDFW was to spend time confirming wolves in the Blues this summer instead it looks like "all hands on deck" in stevens co.

denali, WDFW should be working in the blues as well as several other areas in Washington. This state needs at a minimum a dozen trappers confirming wolves so that we can move forward with wolf management. According to public sightings and trail cam photos, there are enough wolves in Region 1 to delist the whole state, but they will never be confirmed quickly with only 2 trappers for the whole state.

[CedarPants]

Agreed Dale.

I was attempting to try to get GH to be civil and talk, but in the back of my mind the last part of my statement below is what was going on.

I feel you are trying to make a misplaced point, or you are fishing.  Won't find many bites here

Jump on the forum, tell everyone you have no problem shooting a pack of wolves, get everyone to agree with you, then report back to whatever organization they are with.

Common tactic, glad to see it didn't pan out for them here.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Thanks for all the write ups Dale 

[BOWHUNTER45]

Well if I am behind then so is everyone else, because I am reading the same info everyone else in the forum is. You are just trying to pile on, because I said the ranchers should move if they are that unhappy etc. That does not phase me. The truth is, wolves are here to stay. The wolves have all the power. They are not going anywhere, so learn to deal with it. And if a rancher or anyone else harms one, then I hope it is worth the prison time. Go ahead forum and pile on, because I really don't care about a bunch of opinions from people I don't know in a chat room. And for all the people CLAIMING there are wolf attacks happening over and over again. I have yet to see any PROOF!! It is all a bunch of wildlife diehards, that spend their off season in the forum telling tales. Show me a video something. Trail cam pics of wolves means nothing. I want to see a ranch wolves on it attacking livestock before I beleive anything. I called the game department regarding some the the claims on here. I was told to not feed in to BEARPAW, because he tends to blow things out of context and makes assumptions without knowing the facts. Not saying BEARPAW is WRONG, just passing on what the game department told me to be aware of. In other words....it is nothing more then internet chatter, tales, stories, etc.

The wolves have all the power.

I called the game department regarding some the the claims on here. I was told to not feed in to BEARPAW, because he tends to blow things out of context and makes assumptions without knowing the facts.

Thanks for your entertaining comments. 

This is the United States. If the people determine that wolves cannot fit, they will be removed. I think this has been proven in the distant past as well as the recent past in numerous locations. Your comment that "wolves have all the power" simply illustrates your mentality.

I would beleive that a few pro-wolf people in WDFW are uncomfortable that so many people question the faulty wolf plan with so many facts and photos that prove the pro-wolf bias and untruthfulness of the flawed wolf plan. I also imagine that a few people in WDFW might be quietly cheering us on as well, who knows. But as professionals I doubt WDFW managers who know me would actually say exactly what you claim they publicly said to someone they do not know over the phone. In spite of differences in opinion with some of the managers, I have great respect for most of them and their ability to act professionally regardless of their personal feelings. I simply do not beleive your claim, I think our WDFW is more professional than that.

Therefore I am going to cut the chase and get right to the point.

I think you are full of *call it whatever you like*. I just appoved your membership a day or two ago. I just now reviewed your posts (every comment in support of wolves) which anyone can do by clicking on your username and looking at your profile. It appears you are nothing more than a wolf lover who joined to try and distract the conversation from the facts with wolf-lover tactics.

Your username appears to be misleading and untruthful, it is my firm belief you are only here to distract the conversation from the info which has been presented and which is now being reported as an official wolf kill in the media.

I am banning you for what appears to be misrepresentation as a hunter and untruthfulness. If you care to contact me and prove you are a hunter who wants to participate on the forum or who in the WDFW actually made the statements you claim they made, then I will gladly discontinue your permanent vacation from this site.

 

Dang it ...you just took away our entertainment  But I am still laughing 

[bearpaw]

Agreed Dale.

I was attempting to try to get GH to be civil and talk, but in the back of my mind the last part of my statement below is what was going on.

I feel you are trying to make a misplaced point, or you are fishing.  Won't find many bites here

Jump on the forum, tell everyone you have no problem shooting a pack of wolves, get everyone to agree with you, then report back to whatever organization they are with.

Common tactic, glad to see it didn't pan out for them here.

Cedarpants I think you are exactly correct. These groups like to bait people who are upset over impacts to big game herds, livestock, or pets into making comments they can try to use to support their anti-hunting goals or to bolster their membership and donations by exciting their anti-hunting followers.

[Elkslayer]

Thanks for your entertaining comments. 

This is the United States. If the people determine that wolves cannot fit, they will be removed. I think this has been proven in the distant past as well as the recent past in numerous locations. Your comment that "wolves have all the power" simply illustrates your mentality.

I would beleive that a few pro-wolf people in WDFW are uncomfortable that so many people question the faulty wolf plan with so many facts and photos that prove the pro-wolf bias and untruthfulness of the flawed wolf plan. I also imagine that a few people in WDFW might be quietly cheering us on as well, who knows. But as professionals I doubt WDFW managers who know me would actually say exactly what you claim they publicly said to someone they do not know over the phone. In spite of differences in opinion with some of the managers, I have great respect for most of them and their ability to act professionally regardless of their personal feelings. I simply do not beleive your claim, I think our WDFW is more professional than that.

Therefore I am going to cut the chase and get right to the point.

I think you are full of *call it whatever you like*. I just appoved your membership a day or two ago. I just now reviewed your posts (every comment in support of wolves) which anyone can do by clicking on your username and looking at your profile. It appears you are nothing more than a wolf lover who joined to try and distract the conversation from the facts with wolf-lover tactics.

Your username appears to be misleading and untruthful, it is my firm belief you are only here to distract the conversation from the info which has been presented and which is now being reported as an official wolf kill in the media.

I am banning you for what appears to be misrepresentation as a hunter and untruthfulness. If you care to contact me and prove you are a hunter who wants to participate on the forum or who in the WDFW actually made the statements you claim they made, then I will gladly discontinue your permanent vacation from this site.

 

 

[Kola16]

BEARPAW definitely did the right thing 

[buckfvr]

Thanks Dale.....I got tired of typing things and deleting them for poor content....I get red assed in a hurry once I identify a problem. 

[RG]

"Your username appears to be misleading and untruthful, it is my firm belief you are only here to distract the conversation from the info which has been presented and which is now being reported as an official wolf kill in the media.

I am banning you for what appears to be misrepresentation as a hunter and untruthfulness. If you care to contact me and prove you are a hunter who wants to participate on the forum or who in the WDFW actually made the statements you claim they made, then I will gladly discontinue your permanent vacation from this site."

Good job Bearpaw! 

[Kowsrule30]

Therefore I am going to cut the chase and get right to the point.

I think you are full of *call it whatever you like*. I just appoved your membership a day or two ago. I just now reviewed your posts (every comment in support of wolves) which anyone can do by clicking on your username and looking at your profile. It appears you are nothing more than a wolf lover who joined to try and distract the conversation from the facts with wolf-lover tactics.

Your username appears to be misleading and untruthful, it is my firm belief you are only here to distract the conversation from the info which has been presented and which is now being reported as an official wolf kill in the media.

I am banning you for what appears to be misrepresentation as a hunter and untruthfulness. If you care to contact me and prove you are a hunter who wants to participate on the forum or who in the WDFW actually made the statements you claim they made, then I will gladly discontinue your permanent vacation from this site.

 
[/quote]




    LOL!!!! I told him good luck!!!!  HAHA.....   

[bearpaw]

Another KCVL Radio Interview with Len McIrvin

(Just listened to another radio interview, sorry I didn't get exact quotes, but this is close)

McIrvin explains that they transport their cattle to southern WA and OR during the winter and early spring for pasture then in the summer they bring them back home. It's while his cattle are at home that they are attacked by wolves. Then when his cattle are shipped south the wolves are in his neighbors cattle pen in the winter.

McIrvin explained that they aren't asking WDFW for help, they could take care of the problem themselves, they just want to be able to protect their cattle when wolves attack, he doesn't even blame the wolves, he says they are just doing what wolves do. But their hands are tied, they don't want to become felons and be fined $10,000 to $50,000 thousand and face prison time for protecting their livestock.

McIrvin said it won't help ranchers in the Okanaogan, but the eastern 1/3 of WA is federally delisted and WDFW could allow them to remove the pack that is killing cattle in the wedge. He does think that the whole pack will have to be removed to stop the killing.

I agree with McIrvin and have read that once wolves teach the whole pack to kill livestock, the only way to stop it is to take out the whole pack. In fact, in Idaho they want them all killed so there are no individual wolves to move to another pack and teach that new pack to kill cattle.

There is strong evidence (trail cam photos) suggesting that another pack exists in GMU 105 to the east of this pack, it would be a shame for that pack to be taught how to kill cattle too.

Now is the time to take action to protect the other wolves in the area and to protect local ranchers and landowners.

[bearpaw]

I forgot to mention...

McIrvin said that there were two calves attacked the last few days. One calf was badly bitten but alive, the other calf was bitten badly and killed but not even eaten.

I think this is a likely indication that these wolves are teaching the other pack members how to kill cattle even while they are not hungry. This is often referred to as "sport killing" and has commonly been documented when wolves attack elk herds in ID/MT. This instinctive wolf practice is commonly believed to be one of the reasons wolves have such a high impact on game herds.

[Atroxus]

Are the ranchers assuming it was wolves doing the killing? Did they witness it? Please post pictures of the encounter. Otherwise it is all hunting tales.

I feel bad for the rancher losing cattle, but doesn't that come with the territory? It is like working in a chemical plant and then blamming your employer for getting lung cancer. It comes with the territory. Or being an NFL player taking hits to the head, and now going back and blamming the NFL for health issues. It comes with the territory. I don't think the ranchers deserve any compensation for wildlife damages. The same ranchers that want compensation, won't let hunters hunt on their land. Or they do, in a limited capacity. Many want NOTHING to do with the game department, until THEY are on the losing end of things. Two examples in the Dayton area...

Why the WSDFW feels like they should pay these people damages is redicuious. Ranchers think because they own the land and put cattle on it, that nothing bad should happen at their expense. Welcome to the cycle of life. It comes with the territory...

Every rancher I know realizes that some losses come with raising cattle. Smart operators who have managed to stay in business do so only by cutting down their losses like any other type of businessman in this new era. The problem here is that wolf lovers have successfully lobbied for an unreasonable wolf plan that's designed to put wolves into unfit areas of Washington. I would venture to say I have studied this wolf issue probably more than most people involved in the agencies. I doubt many if any of them have spent more time studying this wolf issue than I have and I can honestly say wolves need plenty of remote area to successfully exist without getting into trouble and causing problems in inhabited areas. When you study all the wolf problems that have occurred in North America it becomes very apparent that wolves could easily fit into certain remote areas but need to be kept away from settled areas. This whole wolf fiasco would be far less polarizing if the agencies weren't pandering to the wolf lovers desire to put wolves in unfit areas.

The wedge (GMU 105) is just like many other NE Washington GMU's, they appear to have remote wolf habitat but there isn't a large enough remote area, the reality is that most of Washington is settled land that is checkerboarded by private land owners many of which are ranching operations and most of the country is grazed. The problem is that there is not enough remote land in many of these areas for wolf packs to not get in trouble. This has been the basis of my argument from the beginning against the Washington Wolf Plan which calls for 15 confirmed breeding pairs throughout Washington.

Wyoming has been working toward the most reasonable wolf plan, a plan that gives both sides of the wolf issue what they desire and it protects the citizens of Wyoming as a whole. In a nutshell, wolves are protected in YNP and surrounding areas. There is a buffer zone around the core wolf area where wolves will classified as game animals and will be hunted part of the year and protected part of the year. The rest of the state, roughly 3/4 of the state is recognized as settled country unfit for wolves and so wolves are classified as unprotected and may be shot on sight. Wyoming's plan designates 10 breeding pairs for the state.

A simple Revised Washington Wolf Plan
Washington should be pursuing the same type of plan as Wyoming. Designate suitable wolf zones, a buffer zone around the core areas where wolves are hunted part of the year, and classify wolves as unprotected in the balance of Washington which is unsuitable as it is settled country. Wolves could survive withot getting into trouble in the Parks and Wilderness areas, wolves would be hunted in the buffer zones during hunting seasons which would encourage wolves to stay in the core wolf areas, and Washington residents would be able to protect themselves and their property when wolves wander into settled lands.

4 Wolf Zones - 10 Breeding Pairs
- Salmo Wilderness & Buffer Zone  (2 BP's)
- North Cascades National Park, Paysayten Wilderness, and Buffer Zones  (3 BP's)
- Mount Rainer National Park, Mount St Helens, Olympic National Park, and Buffer Zones  (3 BP's)
- Wenaha Wilderness and Buffer Zone (1 BP)

*When any zone exceeds their quota by 2 BP's, management action may be taken even if the other zones have not met quota.
**If big game herd populations drop more than 20% in any zone that zone's quota should be reassessed and action taken to prevent further reductions in big game populations. (It should be recognized that significant losses of big game populations will result in less sutable habitat for wolves and other predators.)

If a plan like this was initiated, the wolf lovers would have protected wolves and plenty of wolf viewing areas in every corner of the state, wolves would be encouraged to stay in remote areas, ranchers like the McIrvins could protect their livestock. WDFW who are supposed to be cash strapped would not be driving to McIrvins ranch on a regular basis wasting money. Some of this wasted money could be used to hire several more trappers to document several more of these packs that we all know exist. The plan would be a win/win/win.

WDFW needs to move in this direction with the Washington Wolf Plan, they have the ability to change the plan if needed. If you ask the McIrvin's or many other local residents, I bet they will tell you that something needs done sooner than later.

Now that's a wolf plan I could get behind...lots of common sense....too bad that when it comes to politicians "common sense" is in short supply.