How to know if you really need a training collar??

[Shoffy]

I've been taking my 14mo Golden Retriever out on some light grouse hunts, (Mostly just hiking with a gun for lack of grouse) and he's doing pretty good. I'm debating on buying an electric training collar for next months upland opener, but I'm not sure I need it . He always works in front of me, never gets too far out and when he gets on the boarder of too far out I can always stop him and call him back. I think he's scared I'll leave him out there because he's always looking back at me. I don't want to spend $150-200 if I don't have to. My only concern is that when a million quail start busting out of the brush it'll be too much excitement for him and he might take off hell bent for the horizon after them.

[NW-GSP]

Has he ever taken off like that before? If not I would not worry about it. I have one and the only time I really have to use it is in situations where my dog gets really excited and won't stop whining.

[jechicdr]

I'd probably worry more about jumping a deer something that will run into the next drainage...or county with a dog on its heels.  With a retriever that hunts close and answers commands...every time it probably would not be as big a deal.  Suspect it is more important for a pointer that may be working 50-100 yards out from you.  Also if you hunt near roads, where you might need a quick response by your dog.  I just invested in an extra collar for our border collie that doesn't even hunt.  She is getting in the habit of barking and threatening neighborhood kids on scooters and other dogs.  She was always friendly before, but I think having a younger male pointer, she has become a more dominant dog and is trying to protect her pack more.

[Cascade_fisher]

"How do you know if you really need a training collar?"
You need a collar if you own a dog.  They are not used to burn a dog or see if you can make them howl in pain. E-collars are used to communicate with the dog. My bitch has not seen anything above 37 on a collar that goes to 127 and she is one leg away from Master Hunter.  Just my 

[Heredoggydoggy]

My last Setter was like your dog--More concerned about ME getting lost.  Needed one for my first headstrong Setter, but they weren't invented yet.  Being a young dog, she will bolt after a big covey at first, but a few stern words should tell her what's expected of her.  I think electronic collars are good for the really big problems.  Not for when a dog is just being a puppy.   

[Happy Gilmore]

There are a lot of steps involved with introducing a dog to an e-collar. Surprisingly enough, most all of them are simple obediance. A collar is used to reinforce what a dog has already been taught and understands. Most people go buy a collar, strap it on a dog in a false hope it is needed to teach the dog some sort of lesson or, advance the dog to a higher level. Both of these thought processes are 100% unfair to the dog and will end in making a mess of the dog.

If your dog is doing something wrong and you think an e-collar is the answer, it is most likely that you, not the dog is wrong. You will not have success with an e-collar unless you first are certain you have taught the dog and that the dog fully understands what you are expecting it to do. If you put a collar on a dog and dog does not understand what your expectations are for the action, you'll have a mess on your hands.

[Heredoggydoggy]

The one thing you must remember if you decide to use an e-collar, is that animals don't have recollections of what they did wrong, or the cognitive powers to figure it out.  if the dog does something wrong, the reprimand must be immediate or the dog will not know what he did wrong.  People can figure out why they are being punished for someting they did hours or days before.  Dogs can't.

[ttown]

I have never had one until now.  I will always have one with my lab.  She loves it and gets really excited when I get it out.  It does not bother her at all.

My wife thought it was a bad idea and now she loves using it when our dog is in an area with lots of traffic and cars but we want her to play fetch or run.  For me its keeping her safe.  I mean I tested it on my buddy before I put it on Lola he only squealed for a minute..   

 

[Special T]

Golden retrievers are pleasers by nature and tend to be easier to train. I have a Chessie but rarely need to use it now. I think the key is can you call you dog off something that has a grip on its attention? I agree that a collar does not fix anything and needs to be properly introduced, but it does help break a dogs fixation on something when you are calling and its not listening. I personaly think collars are just part of the investment of owning a good hunting dog.  Because you own one of the softest/obediant breeds it may not be necessary, i just like knowing that i have a 500yard leash with my dog. 

[netcoyote]

"How do you know if you really need a training collar?"
You need a collar if you own a dog. 

Absolutely agree with that comment. If you care for your dog and run it in the field, you should have a collar. You may think you have the dog properly trained when testing commands in your back yard, but you have no idea how it will respond to the same commands when confronted by any one of the many wild animals that it could encounter in the wild. It's not always that they would choose to disobey their training, it's that they may get so distracted by some animal that they just plain forget what they are doing. A slight "nick" with a collar can remind them what they are doing. Sometimes the instinct to chase a moving critter is just too overpowering that it will take a jolt to get their attention. Whatever you do, only use the full "jolt" as a LAST resort and only if they are in imminent danger. Most of the time my setter responds well just to a short "beep" and I rarely use the "nick" feature.

[Waterfowldoglover]

Best advice I can give is get one if you have a hunting dog. It doesnt matter how well trained they are there might end up being one time you truly need it. I had a golden retriever that was trained awesome recalled everytime well one time she jumped a grouse when we where out looking for them due to the way the trees in the canyon where she thought it was solid ground and tried to follow that grouse even after a leave it and come commands luckily I was close enough to grab her tail and back as she started to jump. Had I not been so close I would have lost my dog that day as it was over 200 feet down to the next level and she would have gone straight down after going over that edge. I bought an e collar not long after that and worked her with it never had another problem and only used it two times ever on her in her life but knew if I needed it that it was there she very easily could have been a dead dog that day she tried to get that grouse.

Jana

[Shoffy]

Thanks for all the good advise and comments.
Just so I'm 100% clear, it's not that I "think the collar is mean" or "feel bad for the dog" bit, it's the $200 I don't feel like spending if I don't really need it.
My cousin is on his 2nd chocolate lab. Both solid dogs backyard trained by him for upland only hunting in Pendleton, OR loaded with pheasants that rival S. Dakota numbers on some years. He never used a collar for some reason. Only swears by the famous old school book "Gun Dog". He was training his first dog over 20 years ago. Maybe those collars were a little more high priced back then, I dont know.
I may get one just for the peace of mind. We shall see first in a couple of weeks when I get him on some good quail in Yakima. I'm taking him to a nice, flat, open place. If he freaks out then I'll get one

[Stilly bay]

Only swears by the famous old school book "Gun Dog". He was training his first dog over 20 years ago. Maybe those collars were a little more high priced back then, I dont know.

the world of bird dog training has changed a good deal since "Gun dog" was published. thats like saying you learned everything you need to know about politics by the 1st grade.

skippy, if $200 is the least amount of money you spend on a dog during its life, consider yourself blessed.

Ecollars are training tools and you really cannot afford to be without one.  If your dog is out in the field enough an E collar WILL save its life one day, no doubt about it.

just don't be that *censored* that puts the collar on his dog before learning how to use it and conditioning the dog.

[Cascade_fisher]

  exactly. It WILL save its life and you must condition the dog to the collar AFTER it knows the commands. Other than a collar with a name plate and a check cord I think the e-collar is essential for a field dog.  It is not cruel and really helps the dog understand what you want at a distance which is what makes field dogs awesome teammates and companions.

[Maligator]

I use a Tri-Tronics for my two boys and almost never need anything more than the "beep" but...every once in a while when they get "brain-lock" because of a squirrel, rabbit whatever...a quick "nick" is all that is needed to bring them back to attention.

I can run six dogs on the one transmitter which is nice. Now I don't have 6 dogs...but if at some point in the future I decide to get 6 then I am already set