What about this idea

[pianoman9701]

Ok was just a though. Thanks for the input guys.

The WDFW already has a program in place for farmers to contact them with problem fields/flocks. They currently have a late MH season and farmers make use of this to keep their fields free of geese in the late part of the winter roosting areas until they start to fly north after the regular hunting season. During the regular season, at least down here in SW WA, there are few farmers who aren't already covering this and are making money by charging hunters to hunt their fields as private leases.

[Atroxus]

Thats more like what im talking about, just trying to get the connections from farmers to the hunters.

Usually doesn't end well in these situations!  20 + guys and the farmer walks the geese out and the hunters drop 80 + geese.  Then it makes it to the paper.

true.
it ends up as a black eye for the hunting public.
They have tried it a few times on Fir Island... It ends up like the elk slaughter on hwy 20... Bad bad ideA
The rules on Fir island is to stop these group slaughter fests.
Maybe it would work on the less populated east side of the state.

The WDFW already has a program in place for farmers to contact them with problem fields/flocks. They currently have a late MH season and farmers make use of this to keep their fields free of geese in the late part of the winter roosting areas until they start to fly north after the regular hunting season. During the regular season, at least down here in SW WA, there are few farmers who aren't already covering this and are making money by charging hunters to hunt their fields as private leases.

I have a problem with this logic. First the obvious is that it limits these opportunities to Master Hunters. Second is that having Master Hunters in no way assures good PR. If I recall correctly that Skagit fiasco with the elk was a Master Hunter depredation hunt.

Personally I don't have a problem with Master Hunter's being given hunt incentives for participation in the MH program. I don't think that they should be the ONLY ones eligible for these depredation hunts though. If it were up to me master hunters would be given bonus points each year that they maintain the requirements of the program to use towards the hunts of their choice; and depredation hunts would be open to anyone with a hunting license. I would have depredation permits going out to people by region in first come first served basis. For example all hunters living in a given GMU would be eligible for depredation hunts in their own GMU only. If a certain GMU had more permits than hunters applying then they could be given to hunters in neighboring GMUS closest first.

I doubt that will ever happen though, so if someone can help facilitate connecting hunters like myself with smaller land owners to deal with small depredation issues I am all for it. 

[pianoman9701]

Thats more like what im talking about, just trying to get the connections from farmers to the hunters.

Usually doesn't end well in these situations!  20 + guys and the farmer walks the geese out and the hunters drop 80 + geese.  Then it makes it to the paper.

true.
it ends up as a black eye for the hunting public.
They have tried it a few times on Fir Island... It ends up like the elk slaughter on hwy 20... Bad bad ideA
The rules on Fir island is to stop these group slaughter fests.
Maybe it would work on the less populated east side of the state.

The WDFW already has a program in place for farmers to contact them with problem fields/flocks. They currently have a late MH season and farmers make use of this to keep their fields free of geese in the late part of the winter roosting areas until they start to fly north after the regular hunting season. During the regular season, at least down here in SW WA, there are few farmers who aren't already covering this and are making money by charging hunters to hunt their fields as private leases.

I have a problem with this logic. First the obvious is that it limits these opportunities to Master Hunters. Second is that having Master Hunters in no way assures good PR. If I recall correctly that Skagit fiasco with the elk was a Master Hunter depredation hunt.

Personally I don't have a problem with Master Hunter's being given hunt incentives for participation in the MH program. I don't think that they should be the ONLY ones eligible for these depredation hunts though. If it were up to me master hunters would be given bonus points each year that they maintain the requirements of the program to use towards the hunts of their choice; and depredation hunts would be open to anyone with a hunting license. I would have depredation permits going out to people by region in first come first served basis. For example all hunters living in a given GMU would be eligible for depredation hunts in their own GMU only. If a certain GMU had more permits than hunters applying then they could be given to hunters in neighboring GMUS closest first.

I doubt that will ever happen though, so if someone can help facilitate connecting hunters like myself with smaller land owners to deal with small depredation issues I am all for it. 

I'm just outlining the system as it exists. Don't shoot the messenger. Private land owners are making money on leases during the regular season, so they don't need to be hooked up with hunters.

[Skagit_Hunter]

Thats more like what im talking about, just trying to get the connections from farmers to the hunters.

Usually doesn't end well in these situations!  20 + guys and the farmer walks the geese out and the hunters drop 80 + geese.  Then it makes it to the paper.

true.
it ends up as a black eye for the hunting public.
They have tried it a few times on Fir Island... It ends up like the elk slaughter on hwy 20... Bad bad ideA
The rules on Fir island is to stop these group slaughter fests.
Maybe it would work on the less populated east side of the state.

The WDFW already has a program in place for farmers to contact them with problem fields/flocks. They currently have a late MH season and farmers make use of this to keep their fields free of geese in the late part of the winter roosting areas until they start to fly north after the regular hunting season. During the regular season, at least down here in SW WA, there are few farmers who aren't already covering this and are making money by charging hunters to hunt their fields as private leases.

I have a problem with this logic. First the obvious is that it limits these opportunities to Master Hunters. Second is that having Master Hunters in no way assures good PR. If I recall correctly that Skagit fiasco with the elk was a Master Hunter depredation hunt.

Personally I don't have a problem with Master Hunter's being given hunt incentives for participation in the MH program. I don't think that they should be the ONLY ones eligible for these depredation hunts though. If it were up to me master hunters would be given bonus points each year that they maintain the requirements of the program to use towards the hunts of their choice; and depredation hunts would be open to anyone with a hunting license. I would have depredation permits going out to people by region in first come first served basis. For example all hunters living in a given GMU would be eligible for depredation hunts in their own GMU only. If a certain GMU had more permits than hunters applying then they could be given to hunters in neighboring GMUS closest first.

I doubt that will ever happen though, so if someone can help facilitate connecting hunters like myself with smaller land owners to deal with small depredation issues I am all for it. 

It wasn't master hunters with the elk. It was any hickerbilly with a bow. and launching 45 lb draws at 60 yrds. IT WAS UGLY. AND PUT A BAD MARK ON US REAL ARCHERY GUYS FOREVER.

[BOWHUNTER45]

  No I do not think we need to add to the wound of telling landowners we are willing pay them for hunting rights ... Now as far as the skagit hunt goes ...if they just would of let us bowhunters alone and left the season the way it was I do not think this would of ever happened ...( SOME ) of these muzzy guys who F---- It up for me and every other bowhunter who has hunted this unit went and bought a bow and thought they were bowhunters now ! bowhunters are in a class all by themselves . Most serious bowhunters have ethics  - they have the ability to get close to game and know their limitations on range .This unit needs to go back to the bowhunters & Muzzy hunters  by the way of permits only ... Since it is mostly Private land their should be opportunity for Muzzy and bowhunters ...Permits would eliminate a free for all on the herd 

[Atroxus]

If I am mistaken about it being master hunters in Skagit, I apologize. I could have sworn I read something about it being a damage hunt though, which as far as I know only master hunters are allowed to participate in. Or did I misunderstand how damage hunts work? 


I think the farmers charging for access could be addressed as well. Personally I think that farmers faced with depredation should be given a choice by WDFW.

Option 1 get reimbursed for damage by WDFW but let WDFW sell permits to help recoup some of the cost and promise access to those permit holders.(Permit holders would still be liable for any damages they cause during the course of a hunt)

Option 2 the farmer declines access, gets no re-imbursement and deals with it on their own by selling hunting access, but no special permits are allocated for them and hunters would have to have a valid permit and would have to hunt according to the same rules as anyone else by GMU/Season/Weapon etc. 

[pianoman9701]

Thats more like what im talking about, just trying to get the connections from farmers to the hunters.

Usually doesn't end well in these situations!  20 + guys and the farmer walks the geese out and the hunters drop 80 + geese.  Then it makes it to the paper.

true.
it ends up as a black eye for the hunting public.
They have tried it a few times on Fir Island... It ends up like the elk slaughter on hwy 20... Bad bad ideA
The rules on Fir island is to stop these group slaughter fests.
Maybe it would work on the less populated east side of the state.

The WDFW already has a program in place for farmers to contact them with problem fields/flocks. They currently have a late MH season and farmers make use of this to keep their fields free of geese in the late part of the winter roosting areas until they start to fly north after the regular hunting season. During the regular season, at least down here in SW WA, there are few farmers who aren't already covering this and are making money by charging hunters to hunt their fields as private leases.

I have a problem with this logic. First the obvious is that it limits these opportunities to Master Hunters. Second is that having Master Hunters in no way assures good PR. If I recall correctly that Skagit fiasco with the elk was a Master Hunter depredation hunt.

Personally I don't have a problem with Master Hunter's being given hunt incentives for participation in the MH program. I don't think that they should be the ONLY ones eligible for these depredation hunts though. If it were up to me master hunters would be given bonus points each year that they maintain the requirements of the program to use towards the hunts of their choice; and depredation hunts would be open to anyone with a hunting license. I would have depredation permits going out to people by region in first come first served basis. For example all hunters living in a given GMU would be eligible for depredation hunts in their own GMU only. If a certain GMU had more permits than hunters applying then they could be given to hunters in neighboring GMUS closest first.

I doubt that will ever happen though, so if someone can help facilitate connecting hunters like myself with smaller land owners to deal with small depredation issues I am all for it. 

We've been around and around on this. The Skagit fiasco had nothing to do with Master Hunters and everything to do with piss poor planning by the DFW and the hunt coordinator. Yes, it was bad PR for the MH program, but it wasn't caused by the MHs themselves.

Secondly, whether or not MHs get incentives isn't up to me. As the program stands right now, the late goose season is an opportunity only offered to MHs. Not my rules. If you open it up to everyone, then it's just a longer season and the farmers start the leases again; we're back to the same scenario we have in the regular season - no free hunting on private land as a service to landowners because they sell the leases.

It has to be kept limited to a specific group of people who will represent the DFW in such a way as to keep the program popular year after year. This won't happen with the general hunting public without special training. Without a commitment to taking care of the resource and an elevated sense of ethics and sensitivity towards the needs of the landowner, we'll lose landowner participants when the idiots get to hunt and leave trash, fire towards the farmhouse, or drive across the field when they've been instructed not to. If you want others to have access to the damage hunt period, they have to do the extra work to take the MH course. Otherwise, they don't get the access and the landowner doesn't see the value.

[Atroxus]

Thats more like what im talking about, just trying to get the connections from farmers to the hunters.

Usually doesn't end well in these situations!  20 + guys and the farmer walks the geese out and the hunters drop 80 + geese.  Then it makes it to the paper.

true.
it ends up as a black eye for the hunting public.
They have tried it a few times on Fir Island... It ends up like the elk slaughter on hwy 20... Bad bad ideA
The rules on Fir island is to stop these group slaughter fests.
Maybe it would work on the less populated east side of the state.

The WDFW already has a program in place for farmers to contact them with problem fields/flocks. They currently have a late MH season and farmers make use of this to keep their fields free of geese in the late part of the winter roosting areas until they start to fly north after the regular hunting season. During the regular season, at least down here in SW WA, there are few farmers who aren't already covering this and are making money by charging hunters to hunt their fields as private leases.

I have a problem with this logic. First the obvious is that it limits these opportunities to Master Hunters. Second is that having Master Hunters in no way assures good PR. If I recall correctly that Skagit fiasco with the elk was a Master Hunter depredation hunt.

Personally I don't have a problem with Master Hunter's being given hunt incentives for participation in the MH program. I don't think that they should be the ONLY ones eligible for these depredation hunts though. If it were up to me master hunters would be given bonus points each year that they maintain the requirements of the program to use towards the hunts of their choice; and depredation hunts would be open to anyone with a hunting license. I would have depredation permits going out to people by region in first come first served basis. For example all hunters living in a given GMU would be eligible for depredation hunts in their own GMU only. If a certain GMU had more permits than hunters applying then they could be given to hunters in neighboring GMUS closest first.

I doubt that will ever happen though, so if someone can help facilitate connecting hunters like myself with smaller land owners to deal with small depredation issues I am all for it. 

We've been around and around on this. The Skagit fiasco had nothing to do with Master Hunters and everything to do with piss poor planning by the DFW and the hunt coordinator. Yes, it was bad PR for the MH program, but it wasn't caused by the MHs themselves.

Secondly, whether or not MHs get incentives isn't up to me. As the program stands right now, the late goose season is an opportunity only offered to MHs. Not my rules. If you open it up to everyone, then it's just a longer season and the farmers start the leases again; we're back to the same scenario we have in the regular season - no free hunting on private land as a service to landowners because they sell the leases.

It has to be kept limited to a specific group of people who will represent the DFW in such a way as to keep the program popular year after year. This won't happen with the general hunting public without special training. Without a commitment to taking care of the resource and an elevated sense of ethics and sensitivity towards the needs of the landowner, we'll lose landowner participants when the idiots get to hunt and leave trash, fire towards the farmhouse, or drive across the field when they've been instructed not to. If you want others to have access to the damage hunt period, they have to do the extra work to take the MH course. Otherwise, they don't get the access and the landowner doesn't see the value.

I know it isn't up to you, and I wasn't blaming you or even other master hunters. I just think that the system as it is now is broken and needs some fixing.

[ducklab]

I thank you for all of your input, however I think we are getting off track and that is my fault for the way I was working my origional post. I have made a list here.  I feel like the idea proposed will not have these issues previously discussed (slaughter and leases)
1.   I am trying to reach smaller farmers issues. Not leases
3.   These hunts will be short duration, One flock, one deer, One coyote, in one to two days. Not season long.
4.    There will not be more than One hunter per situation. This will not allow slaughter and not allow multiple hunters to access
5.   This will be during the regular season
6.   The landowner will choose the applicant
7.   It is essentially door knocking and with the internet but the farmers come to us
I realize that there is a MH program that does similar things as to what I’m proposing as to problem animals. This is not the same as MH.
I can understand that not all hunters are as safe as we can hope for. This is an issue that needs to be discussed before something like this can occur. I believe that the screening that the landowner will do will hopefully alleviate this problem.

From the previous posts I don’t think we are ready for this to happen. Thank You all for the input. I will keep this idea in my head and work on it some more and maybe propose it again when the time is right.

[Atroxus]

I thank you for all of your input, however I think we are getting off track and that is my fault for the way I was working my origional post. I have made a list here.  I feel like the idea proposed will not have these issues previously discussed (slaughter and leases)
1.   I am trying to reach smaller farmers issues. Not leases
3.   These hunts will be short duration, One flock, one deer, One coyote, in one to two days. Not season long.
4.    There will not be more than One hunter per situation. This will not allow slaughter and not allow multiple hunters to access
5.   This will be during the regular season
6.   The landowner will choose the applicant
7.   It is essentially door knocking and with the internet but the farmers come to us
I realize that there is a MH program that does similar things as to what I’m proposing as to problem animals. This is not the same as MH.
I can understand that not all hunters are as safe as we can hope for. This is an issue that needs to be discussed before something like this can occur. I believe that the screening that the landowner will do will hopefully alleviate this problem.

From the previous posts I don’t think we are ready for this to happen. Thank You all for the input. I will keep this idea in my head and work on it some more and maybe propose it again when the time is right.

I think that most of the concerns posted either wouldn't apply to small land owners or could be addressed. If you change your mind and decide to go forward with it let me know and if I can lend a hand I will.

[pianoman9701]

I thank you for all of your input, however I think we are getting off track and that is my fault for the way I was working my origional post. I have made a list here.  I feel like the idea proposed will not have these issues previously discussed (slaughter and leases)
1.   I am trying to reach smaller farmers issues. Not leases
3.   These hunts will be short duration, One flock, one deer, One coyote, in one to two days. Not season long.
4.    There will not be more than One hunter per situation. This will not allow slaughter and not allow multiple hunters to access
5.   This will be during the regular season
6.   The landowner will choose the applicant
7.   It is essentially door knocking and with the internet but the farmers come to us
I realize that there is a MH program that does similar things as to what I’m proposing as to problem animals. This is not the same as MH.
I can understand that not all hunters are as safe as we can hope for. This is an issue that needs to be discussed before something like this can occur. I believe that the screening that the landowner will do will hopefully alleviate this problem.

From the previous posts I don’t think we are ready for this to happen. Thank You all for the input. I will keep this idea in my head and work on it some more and maybe propose it again when the time is right.

This is already done through the DFW game management division.

[Atroxus]

Just because it is done by WDFW doesn't mean there are no people who would be willing to work directly with hunters though. I have a cousin that basically does the same thing for his friends on Camano island. He connects hunters with his neighbors who want deer off their land. Sadly I can't get him to do the same for me.  I see no problem with making a more organized effort to let us little people who don't have the time, or skills to become master hunters have a shot at helping small land owners who have critters eating their rosebushes, or family pets. I am not sure why so many people are determined that it not happen.

[pianoman9701]

Just because it is done by WDFW doesn't mean there are no people who would be willing to work directly with hunters though. I have a cousin that basically does the same thing for his friends on Camano island. He connects hunters with his neighbors who want deer off their land. Sadly I can't get him to do the same for me.  I see no problem with making a more organized effort to let us little people who don't have the time, or skills to become master hunters have a shot at helping small land owners who have critters eating their rosebushes, or family pets. I am not sure why so many people are determined that it not happen.

I didn't say it couldn't happen. I just said here's already a vehicle for it. Trying to save him some time if he didn't already know what's out there is all. Everyone seems to want a fight in here lately. 

[Atroxus]

Just because it is done by WDFW doesn't mean there are no people who would be willing to work directly with hunters though. I have a cousin that basically does the same thing for his friends on Camano island. He connects hunters with his neighbors who want deer off their land. Sadly I can't get him to do the same for me.  I see no problem with making a more organized effort to let us little people who don't have the time, or skills to become master hunters have a shot at helping small land owners who have critters eating their rosebushes, or family pets. I am not sure why so many people are determined that it not happen.

I didn't say it couldn't happen. I just said here's already a vehicle for it. Trying to save him some time if he didn't already know what's out there is all. Everyone seems to want a fight in here lately. 

Nah, my  icon was more about my cousin refusing to hook me up with private land access like he does for his friends. I was getting the impression though that you and others were actively discouraging the OP from his idea. Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to find out why there seems to be so much opposition to what seems like a really good idea to me.

And unless I am misunderstanding, what the WDFW does is only for master hunters. Even if I had the time to volunteer the hours needed, I don't own or know how to use a bow or muzzle loader. Heck I just bought my first shotgun, and am going to go learn to shoot trap here soon. Isn't qualification with all weapon types also a requirement for MH?

[pianoman9701]

I was saying that during normal hunting seasons, the farmers who have geese have no problem finding people to help them with their animals, and for a big paycheck to boot. It's the off-season time that's the problem because then, there are no hunters available. The same is true for big game, as well. People who have private land and big game tearing it up sell leases or let relatives hunt it. During regular seasons, I think they have plenty of options for hazing and killing problem animals. It's the off-season that's the challenge.