Bad meeting with USFS officer

[bobcat]

If you're cutting down "dead snags" you're not just stealing wood from the public, you're also taking away what could be critical wildlife habitat.

That's why the USFS employs foresters and wildlife biologists, so they can make decisions such as what areas should be open for firewood cutting.

This area was not open for firewood cutting, according to Jess. So it wouldn't have mattered if he had a permit or not. It was a closed area!

[Woodchuck]

The Republic office has learned over the years how to manage and fit in around the locals, and works around the mandates from their higher ups.  Is this not how things should be?
Then this USFS guy comes in from a different area and disrupts that balance, is he making a point? 
Did the higher ups get pissed at the Republic office for not writing enough fines?
So they send in their top go-getter to write a ton of fines and make the local office look bad.

I don't think any of you that do not live and collect firewood around the Republic area have the right to bust this mans balls for "stealing" firewood.  I also do not see it as theft.  The permit system was put in place in order to funnel and control the taking of firewood for the gain of USFS - for reasons from nesting birds to fire danger to you name it.  Taking an animal out of season is not analogist to cutting firewood out of season.  This is a case of not adhering to the rules set forth in regard to harvesting firewood off public lands, nothing more. 
If you want to make an analogy it'd be more akin to harvesting a road kill deer without a permit.

Also, I do not think an officer has the right to be rude with a compliant subject, nor do I see any reason under any circumstance to badmouth his fellow employees even if they are from a different office.  That is not cool under any circumstance.

my 2c

I have to respectfully disagree, KF. The permits sold by the NFS benefit all of the NFS, not just where they're collected. If you're supposed to pay to cut wood, you pay, or you can buy wood from someone else who cuts it.

As far as what happens locally around Republic is concerned, if you guys have been getting the soft touch over the years, be thankful, I guess. If that's ending, it should and it's about time. I pay, you pay, we all pay. That's the way the system's set up and that's the fair way to do it.

Again, who says he didn't buy the permit?

[uplandhunter870]

good lord the OP said he was caught in a closed area not that he was cutting without a permit. so lets hang him on the assumption he didnt have a permit. with the info he provided hes guilty of not being current on area closures or inability to read a map

[pianoman9701]

so today i was out cutting firewood in an area that was not open to wood cutting i will admit that and i will pay my fine.. But what i was realy pissed about is when the officer said all the people in the republic USFS office "are inbreed and are telling the firewood thieves his schedule"... First off alot of these people are my friends and take great offence to that statemen and will be talking to his boss tomorrow, and second off dont the national forest belong to the people? How can a person be a thief for cutting dead snags and down trees? This also offended me because i never have or will steal ever.. Sorry for venting just pissed not about the ticket but the way the officer behaved in my three+ hour ordeal with this officer..

He never said he "couldn't afford the permit". He said he screwed up and will pay the piper. Now you guys are on here bustin his chops like he killed a 400" bull on the interstate with a pellet gun hung out his window with a beer in hand. Then you wonder why people are reluctant to post pics and stories. Those people are supposed to be professionals, they should act like it.

We are simply pointing out that he broke a law, and we are advising that he simply pay the fine.

LE officers for the most part do act professional. Since we were not there, we can only respond to the OP's statement about his action. As usual, I would love to hear both sides of it....but that ain't going to happen is it...?

I get that exactly and you make a good point. So how in the world did people get to calling him a thief, say he is cheating the system. Went on to say he couldn't afford the permits but could afford the drive in his truck, these things IMO are dangerous assumptions and what lies behind a lot of people shying away from here.
No we don't have all the facts So why are we so eager to jump this guy?

He jumped himself. He started a thread about his poor treatment by a USFS employee after he admittedly took firewood without a permit. Are you kidding me WC? No one jumped this guy. I'd personally be damned if I would ever start a thread about my illegal activities and then expect sympathy for my treatment after the fact when I got caught.

Look, I'm not going to ride around our forests looking for guys stealing wood. But I'm also going to stick by the rules for cutting it and pay for the permit. If you don't and you get caught, pay the piper and learn your lesson. But don't come to me expecting me to get all upset about your treatment at the hands of the person who catches you.

[KFhunter]

The Republic office has learned over the years how to manage and fit in around the locals, and works around the mandates from their higher ups

So my interpretation of what you are saying is they pretty well let folks do as they please, regardless of the rules?

I never said that, and I really do not know how the Republic office handles things to be honest I do not live there. 
Also, we do not know of the OP has a permit or not.  They are cheap, but he never said if he had purchased them or not. 

Also, I do not harvest firewood.  I used too years ago off, but always from our own private land.


About the only argument I'll listen too is the one of nesting birds and wildlife habitat, but honestly that is a stretch as 99.999% of all firewood harvested is cut within 50 yards of an established road and not out in the middle of roadless areas.

Also, a big portion of firewood gathering is from old logging piles, pushed up to the side and left to rot.  People will go in behind the loggers and clean up burnable materials, is that theft too?  Is that akin to poaching a monster bull elk?  Should we execute them?



 

[pianoman9701]

good lord the OP said he was caught in a closed area not that he was cutting without a permit. so lets hang him on the assumption he didnt have a permit. with the info he provided hes guilty of not being current on area closures or inability to read a map

I don't understand this thread at all or the favorable responses to it. I know if I'm in a closed area, it's on me. That's all. I'm outta this one. It's obvious that nothing more can be gained by discussing this further. Have a good day, all, and go vote.
PMan

[KFhunter]

If you're cutting down "dead snags" you're not just stealing wood from the public, you're also taking away what could be critical wildlife habitat.

That's why the USFS employs foresters and wildlife biologists, so they can make decisions such as what areas should be open for firewood cutting.

This area was not open for firewood cutting, according to Jess. So it wouldn't have mattered if he had a permit or not. It was a closed area!

This is about the only argument I've heard with a small amount of merit.  However it is thin as people do not hike 10 miles in to harvest wood, it is all done within a stones throw of an established road.  99% of the forest land is never touched by wood harvesters.   If you had an eye for firewood, then every time you stepped off the road in your hunting activities you'd notice all the pickles ripe for harvesting 

[hunter360]

I guess a lot of people on here don't make mistakes. Good to know 

[KFhunter]

good lord the OP said he was caught in a closed area not that he was cutting without a permit. so lets hang him on the assumption he didnt have a permit. with the info he provided hes guilty of not being current on area closures or inability to read a map

I don't understand this thread at all or the favorable responses to it. I know if I'm in a closed area, it's on me. That's all. I'm outta this one. It's obvious that nothing more can be gained by discussing this further. Have a good day, all, and go vote.
PMan

Please don't misunderstand me,  I am not in favor of breaking the law, or harvesting wood in a closed area, nor does accepting the fine and paying the piper make it 'OK'.   
However, we need to keep this in context.  People seemed to be going off the deep end here. 

Also no one agreed to my statements

I do not think an officer has the right to be rude with a compliant subject, nor do I see any reason under any circumstance to badmouth his fellow employees even if they are from a different office.  That is not cool under any circumstance.

[Woodchuck]

  better? 
I do agree with that by the way.

[bobcat]

Also, a big portion of firewood gathering is from old logging piles, pushed up to the side and left to rot.  People will go in behind the loggers and clean up burnable materials, is that theft too?  Is that akin to poaching a monster bull elk?  Should we execute them?

But that isn't the case in this scenario. He said he was cutting down snags. If it was a recently logged area that needed cleaning up, I bet it would have been open for firewood cutting. This area was closed. So the USFS obviously did not want firewood cutting to occur in this area, for whatever reason. That's up to them to decide. And I think a $400 fine is fair. A poached elk would cost a lot more than that.

[bobcat]

I guess a lot of people on here don't make mistakes. Good to know 

I didn't get the impression that this was a mistake.

The only mistake was getting caught.

[bigtex]

Just a little background knowledge on USFS Law Enforcement. In the USFS the LE program is a sole entity meaning the local forest district ranger or supervisor has no supervisory authority over the law enforcement in their forest/dsitrict. Officers are assigned to a district but do not work for that district. Much like how WDFW regional managers do not supervise WDFW Officers, but are supervised by a WDFW Enforcement Regional Captain.

[fishseeker]

First off I do not Know the OP, But only know one side of the story. Did the OP fly off the handle at the officer? Officer may have given him a warning or a ticket and not taken his saw and maul. Could be he got and attitude seizure.  Just sayin. I know there is a lot of FS people that have a mind set that NOTHING is to be taken from the forest, just look at it and enjoy. I know this used to be unheard off in these parts but the enviro wako's are everywhere now and don't cotton to our way of thinking about firewood. I'm 60 years old and HAVE SEEN the change in the FS, not for the better.

[Boss .300 winmag]

I can't believe this thread, I am sure the LEO has more important regulations he could be enforcing!

GEOCACHING Guidelines
Geocaching:  is an activity where participants seek out locations or hidden containers, called "caches", using a variety of methods and clues that may include GPS (global positioning systems) other navigational aids.   A typical cache may include a memento or prize, or be a waterproof container containing a logbook where the “Geocacher” or locator enters the date they found it. 
Geocaching is often described as a "game of high-tech hide and seek," sharing many aspects of orienteering or treasure hunting.
Geocaching is not permitted in congressionally designated Wilderness Areas per FSM 2320, or in any other nationally designated areas such as national scenic areas, historic or scenic trails.
Geocaching is permissible in all other General Forest Areas provided there is no natural resource damage or vandalism to government facilities.
Geocaching is not permitted within areas designated as national historic landmarks, sites, or pre-historic sites.
When Geocaching, natural resources are not to be disturbed, nor are they allowed to be removed from NFS lands. That includes soil disturbance/digging, removal of vegetation, disturbance of natural features, etc.  Avoid sensitive areas like wetlands or streams.
When Geocaching, historical artifacts or features are not to be disturbed or removed. 
Geocaching shall not interfere with other permitted activities such as outfitter and guide designated campsites.
When Geocaching, motorized vehicle use and parking shall be in compliance with Colville National Forest travel regulations and Motor Vehicle Use Maps. 
Geocaching via horseback is not permitted in developed recreation sites other than those designated for equestrian use.
Geocachers are not required to have a permit provided that they are in-compliance with all other FS regulations and policy concerning group size and fees.
Please label Geocaches as such to avoid any confusion or safety concerns.


LMAO!!!!