Free: Contests & Raffles.
Quote from: 300UltraMagShooter on November 16, 2012, 09:25:30 AMQuote from: akashasdaddy on November 10, 2012, 11:32:03 PMFirst of all let me say I am sorry for your temporary lapse in judgment,but ignorance of the law is not an excuse. I learned this the hard way myself. actually, it is. where there is no intent to break the law, no law is broken. that has been the case since our "free" country was founded. unfortunately, this is yet another myth that has been passed down for so long that it has become common to find such error from judges top cops to even lawyers. sad, but just looking at our laws and regulations now, it "should" be true more so now than ever.That may be true, however I don't think he was ignorant of the laws. He simply made a mistake in identifying the buck as a legal one.......... And he admitted his mistakes and simply is asking for advice.
Quote from: akashasdaddy on November 10, 2012, 11:32:03 PMFirst of all let me say I am sorry for your temporary lapse in judgment,but ignorance of the law is not an excuse. I learned this the hard way myself. actually, it is. where there is no intent to break the law, no law is broken. that has been the case since our "free" country was founded. unfortunately, this is yet another myth that has been passed down for so long that it has become common to find such error from judges top cops to even lawyers. sad, but just looking at our laws and regulations now, it "should" be true more so now than ever.
First of all let me say I am sorry for your temporary lapse in judgment,but ignorance of the law is not an excuse. I learned this the hard way myself.
Quote from: lokidog on November 11, 2012, 10:11:35 PMQuote from: bigtex on November 11, 2012, 09:54:06 PMQuote from: akashasdaddy on November 10, 2012, 11:32:03 PMIf this is your very first criminal offense and if your attorney is worth his or her salt, you will probably be spared any jail time. You are more than likely looking at a fine in the neighborhood of $500-$1,000, loss of hunting rights for a period of time (two years), and probably two years of probation. Again, all this could be more or less depending on the deal that is worked out with the prosecutor. But,remember our criminal justice system is based on a points system, meaning the more criminal offenses you have on your record the more points you have, the stiffer the penalty you will receive. This violation requires a MANDATORY $2,000 civil fine paid to WDFW upon a guilty conviction, in addition to any criminal fines set by a judge.Would this be mitigated in any way if he had called immediately before gutting/tagging/moving the deer? Curious if there is actually any benefit to doing the "right" thing, other than having a clearer conscience.No. There was talk several years ago abou creating some type of "accident" killing of wildlife charge in these circumstances when a friend of a legislator got in trouble, it went no where.As I said, along with the conviction of killing a big game animal out of season (including 2pt in 3pt) requires a MANDATORY criminal wildlife penalty assessment, in this case it would be $2,000.Now what a judge can do is say, no criminal penalties, just the civil penalty. To show the opposite extreme, the highest criminal penalty is $5,000 plus the $2,000 civil penalty.
Quote from: bigtex on November 11, 2012, 09:54:06 PMQuote from: akashasdaddy on November 10, 2012, 11:32:03 PMIf this is your very first criminal offense and if your attorney is worth his or her salt, you will probably be spared any jail time. You are more than likely looking at a fine in the neighborhood of $500-$1,000, loss of hunting rights for a period of time (two years), and probably two years of probation. Again, all this could be more or less depending on the deal that is worked out with the prosecutor. But,remember our criminal justice system is based on a points system, meaning the more criminal offenses you have on your record the more points you have, the stiffer the penalty you will receive. This violation requires a MANDATORY $2,000 civil fine paid to WDFW upon a guilty conviction, in addition to any criminal fines set by a judge.Would this be mitigated in any way if he had called immediately before gutting/tagging/moving the deer? Curious if there is actually any benefit to doing the "right" thing, other than having a clearer conscience.
Quote from: akashasdaddy on November 10, 2012, 11:32:03 PMIf this is your very first criminal offense and if your attorney is worth his or her salt, you will probably be spared any jail time. You are more than likely looking at a fine in the neighborhood of $500-$1,000, loss of hunting rights for a period of time (two years), and probably two years of probation. Again, all this could be more or less depending on the deal that is worked out with the prosecutor. But,remember our criminal justice system is based on a points system, meaning the more criminal offenses you have on your record the more points you have, the stiffer the penalty you will receive. This violation requires a MANDATORY $2,000 civil fine paid to WDFW upon a guilty conviction, in addition to any criminal fines set by a judge.
If this is your very first criminal offense and if your attorney is worth his or her salt, you will probably be spared any jail time. You are more than likely looking at a fine in the neighborhood of $500-$1,000, loss of hunting rights for a period of time (two years), and probably two years of probation. Again, all this could be more or less depending on the deal that is worked out with the prosecutor. But,remember our criminal justice system is based on a points system, meaning the more criminal offenses you have on your record the more points you have, the stiffer the penalty you will receive.
Quote from: Rooster1981 on November 16, 2012, 08:25:10 AMSounds like to me you got caught poaching . 1. you shot an Illegal deer2. you failed to call it in3. you carried the animal out of the woods And hid it in the back seat of your truck 4. there were witnesses that called in the animal, and I bet they are hoping to cash in ten points5. the most important mistake you have made, A hand written public statement of complete fault to you and your hunting partner. WOW I disagree with #5 in this instance. If the deck is stacked against you to the level it is here, I fail to see how owning up to your mistake is going to make things worse.
Sounds like to me you got caught poaching . 1. you shot an Illegal deer2. you failed to call it in3. you carried the animal out of the woods And hid it in the back seat of your truck 4. there were witnesses that called in the animal, and I bet they are hoping to cash in ten points5. the most important mistake you have made, A hand written public statement of complete fault to you and your hunting partner. WOW
Unfortunately, as BigTex indicated, there is NO incentive to "do the right thing".
Quote from: akashasdaddy on November 10, 2012, 11:32:03 PMFirst of all let me say I am sorry for your temporary lapse in judgment,but ignorance of the law is not an excuse. I learned this the hard way myself.Not sure if this has been said already but, a gross misdemeanor comes with the potential of up to a $5,000 fine and/or a year in jail. Not sure of the repercussions as far as hunting and/or firearm rights. From the RCW's that have been posted it looks like you could possibly lose your hunting rights for the two years. This offense does not fall under the mandatory minimums law (with the exception of the hunting rights); so the judge could decide to be more or less lenient when it comes to sentencing. Since it is a criminal charge, your first appearance in court will be an arraignment; this is where you enter a plea, you wont be sentenced. Personally, I suggest you plead not guilty and talk to a lawyer. The lawyer can work with the prosecutor to work out a plea deal. This is your best bet since you will have to make more than one appearance in court anyway. Going to a jury trial would be a huge mistake, you have far too much evidence against you and two law enforcement officers who will testify against you. Good intentions mean nothing in a court of law and your three mistakes will weigh heavily against you with a jury. If this is your very first criminal offense and if your attorney is worth his or her salt, you will probably be spared any jail time. You are more than likely looking at a fine in the neighborhood of $500-$1,000, loss of hunting rights for a period of time (two years), and probably two years of probation. Again, all this could be more or less depending on the deal that is worked out with the prosecutor. But,remember our criminal justice system is based on a points system, meaning the more criminal offenses you have on your record the more points you have, the stiffer the penalty you will receive. For what its worth, I hope this helps and good luck.This is the best and most useful post in this topic. This guy is spot on. You need to get a lawyer. Had you not complicated your situation with additional mistakes, I would agree with the others who said not to get a lawyer. Don't get a lawyer out of your home town, or ask for the case be moved into your county. The county you offended in is familar with the charges and how they are enforced. Example-Moving it from a small county in South Eastern WA to Seattle, would be suicide. You will want to contact the top 3 lawyers in the county, which the violation took place in. They know the judges personally and are likely FREINDS with them. It makes for a much easier plea negotiation. I keep reading $5000 for lawyer fee's in the forum? That seems way out in left field. A member of our hunting camp shot a 2 point, tried to lie, etc. It cost him $1200 retainer fee and an additional $500 to handle the case. The lawyer will enter your plea for you at your first apperance. You should pled not guilty. This keeps the door open for negotiation. This is where you get the value for the money you are paying your attorney. They will negotiate on your behalf to try and minimize the charges and fee's to you. It is easy to say "don't get a lawyer" but when your standing in the court room with 50 plus people in the room hearing your case, dealing with a judge, it's not that easy. You have to be quick, know the laws, and on your A-Game or the judge will get frusterated with you and end the hearing. Then you will get nailed. You will likely get deferred prosecution with a good attorney, pay a fine, pay resitution to the court, and pay to get your gun back. I don't see you losing hunting privledges on a first offense.
First of all let me say I am sorry for your temporary lapse in judgment,but ignorance of the law is not an excuse. I learned this the hard way myself.Not sure if this has been said already but, a gross misdemeanor comes with the potential of up to a $5,000 fine and/or a year in jail. Not sure of the repercussions as far as hunting and/or firearm rights. From the RCW's that have been posted it looks like you could possibly lose your hunting rights for the two years. This offense does not fall under the mandatory minimums law (with the exception of the hunting rights); so the judge could decide to be more or less lenient when it comes to sentencing. Since it is a criminal charge, your first appearance in court will be an arraignment; this is where you enter a plea, you wont be sentenced. Personally, I suggest you plead not guilty and talk to a lawyer. The lawyer can work with the prosecutor to work out a plea deal. This is your best bet since you will have to make more than one appearance in court anyway. Going to a jury trial would be a huge mistake, you have far too much evidence against you and two law enforcement officers who will testify against you. Good intentions mean nothing in a court of law and your three mistakes will weigh heavily against you with a jury. If this is your very first criminal offense and if your attorney is worth his or her salt, you will probably be spared any jail time. You are more than likely looking at a fine in the neighborhood of $500-$1,000, loss of hunting rights for a period of time (two years), and probably two years of probation. Again, all this could be more or less depending on the deal that is worked out with the prosecutor. But,remember our criminal justice system is based on a points system, meaning the more criminal offenses you have on your record the more points you have, the stiffer the penalty you will receive. For what its worth, I hope this helps and good luck.
I think the punishment of simply pleading guilty and letting the judge crush you is far different from the punishment of negotiating a guilty plea with punishment before you get to the judge.
Quote from: 300UltraMagShooter on November 16, 2012, 09:25:30 AMQuote from: akashasdaddy on November 10, 2012, 11:32:03 PMFirst of all let me say I am sorry for your temporary lapse in judgment,but ignorance of the law is not an excuse. I learned this the hard way myself. actually, it is. where there is no intent to break the law, no law is broken. that has been the case since our "free" country was founded. unfortunately, this is yet another myth that has been passed down for so long that it has become common to find such error from judges top cops to even lawyers. sad, but just looking at our laws and regulations now, it "should" be true more so now than ever.Not entirely accurate. Our justice system is based on "Old English Commonlaw", even the laws created after America won independence are based on the English common law.What you are referring to as intent or lack of intent is called "malice aforethought" and only goes to determine the degree of guilt if found guilty but can sometimes be used to find a person innocent in certain cases. Breaking the law is breaking the law, always has been. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" is based on a quote from the 1500's and just like our current laws is based in English commonlaw. It was a successful argument by the prosecution pointing out that if a precedent were set then everybody would say they didn't mean to do it. Just a little stuff I remember from college, law classes were definitely my favorites.Back to the topic, the OP made a mistake and I am willing to bet accepts a plea deal. I admire him for not leaving the deer there as a lot of people do and it makes me sick to see the waste.
Accidents happen.... and accidents are NOT breaking the law. Breaking the law is when one purposely sets out to shoot a 2 pt.
Quote from: 300UltraMagShooter on November 16, 2012, 11:00:46 AMAccidents happen.... and accidents are NOT breaking the law. Breaking the law is when one purposely sets out to shoot a 2 pt.Ok, now with that thinking, I can know see why a guy could plead not guilty in a case like this. He's not guilty of purposely shooting a 2 point. Thanks for clearing that up for me 300UltraMagShooter.
Quote from: Curly on November 16, 2012, 11:12:15 AMQuote from: 300UltraMagShooter on November 16, 2012, 11:00:46 AMAccidents happen.... and accidents are NOT breaking the law. Breaking the law is when one purposely sets out to shoot a 2 pt.Ok, now with that thinking, I can know see why a guy could plead not guilty in a case like this. He's not guilty of purposely shooting a 2 point. Thanks for clearing that up for me 300UltraMagShooter. actually, that is exactly right no matter how nonserious you are about it. however, i doubt it will work as a defense with these myths getting thrown around the way they are. he'd have to get really lucky to find a judge that knows intent the way it was originally intended.i'm one that believes/knows that you can shoot that 2 pt and know in your mind 100% that you can "believe" it is a 3 pt. It happens... and it isn't his fault that someone wrote a law that doesn't take into account human error.
