GMAC to discuss deer/elk baiting in the future.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I saw this on http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,111598.0.html

  How much more is there to discuss on this topic? It seems this has been a topic of discussion for at least the past 15 years. I am guessing it's the same people bringing it up over and over again... If they are successful in removing it I wish I could find something they use just so I could make it a personal agenda to have it changed.

It seems like deer/elk baiting is an issue that is brought up every time there is a chance. I think it has remained by the slimmest of margins in the recent past. This is probably due to the fact that it is the smallest user group (archery whitetail and archery late season elk hunters ) that primarily use bait (though I know many don't). Fortunately...in the past... there have been a good number of firearm guys that may not use the method but certainly aren't going to support having hunters rights removed.....but that number seems to be growing smaller and smaller... in this state I have found that there seems to be a large percentage of fellow hunters that stand ready to remove hunters rights just because they don't use or like this tool (that is of great value to hunters on public land mature big woods mountain whitetail...even if only used for inventory ). Every time I hear the same flawed logic and reasoning to justify the position (such as bringing up deer starving while on the feed..which doesn't happen with hunting bait in Nov/Dec...but rather "emergency" feeding by do gooders.. .. or spread of disease...which anyone who understands whitetail behavior realizes they are extremely social animals and every animal within that local group is constantly coming into contact with each other...not to mention it has yet to be proven that this has caused any serious or even minor issue...and this includes issues with CWD..which we know were blown way out of proportion...particularly in WI)

Then there are those who don't see baiting as "hunting" or as not "fair chase". Which automatically tells me they have  probably never tried to kill a mature buck over bait... but aside from that... if you don't like it...then you don't have to do it... It still blows my mind that someone with that view would try to remove this liberty from other hunters.

I can tell you this... the legal baiting of "big woods" whitetail deer in WA state makes for a hunting experience  that you can't get anywhere else in this region short of going to British Colombia or Saskatchewan Canada. It would be a shame to remove this valuable tool from the hunters tool-belt.

I know a guy over in Idaho that uses feed to inventory the deer (which is perfectly legal). Yet he is constantly being harassed by the game department because someone reports the feed or they think he is going to "hunt" over it.... He actually gave it up this year because it was too much hassle. I hope WA doesn't go that way.... but I fear it will.

[elkaholic]

I hope it doesn't go away as we'll!

[lokidog]

Thanks for the post, start planting your apple trees now. 

I used to think mountain lions were really cool and why would anyone want to kill one, so I decided I would not, not that they should not.  However, after trying some steaks, I would definitely shoot one now.   

It is frustrating when hunters won't support other hunters even if they do not use whatever the method is.

[bwhntr350]

   DBHAWTHORNE, Great post!

 I do not bait but I, definitely, do not see a problem with it. I, also, know zero people who have ever killed anything over bait.

  And, in my opinion, you are correct about hunters eating their own. We all have one common goal and that is to enjoy the outdoors.  People these days seem to feel the need to hate on others that are not exactly the same as them and that is destructive to the entire group, not just the one's being hated upon:(

[Bob33]

http://www.huntright.org/where-we-stand/ethics-vs-preferences

Another example may cement the point. The practice of "baiting" game animals is constantly debated among hunters as a question of "hunting ethics." (I will ignore for the moment concerns about CWD and the like.) Critics say that baiting is too easy and that it reduces the amount of effort and skills needed to successfully hunt game animals such as deer, bear, or moose. Practitioners of the art of baiting typically respond, "Don't knock it unless you've tried it." Aside from the moral issues surrounding the vice of laziness and related moral concerns about the lack of human character such a vice implies, baiting does not seem to be an "ethical" issue per se as much as it is an aesthetic issue. Let me explain.

In northern Wisconsin there is at least one individual that I know of who begins his daily baiting of deer at least two months before the beginning of deer season. Reasoning that he wants the deer to show up at his stand in the woods when he is there, he goes out to the woods twice a day: once in the morning to lay out his spread of corn, apples, sugar beets, and whatever else he uses to attract deer to his location, and then once again in the evening to take it all away. That's two trips a day, for two months: or 120 trips to the woods, all in the hopes that the deer become habituated to visiting his chosen site only in daylight (legal shooting) hours. During the two months of baiting, this individual also occasionally climbs in his tree stand over the bait pile for the pleasure of simply watching the deer that come by. His enjoyment of deer hunting is thus extended considerably in this way, and during the time period when he is simply a wildlife watcher certainly does not involve killing in any way. All of this is for the privilege of being able to select his own venison, "on the hoof" so to speak, come opening day.

Another deer hunter hunts his own land and sits under apple trees that the previous owners planted some seventy-five to a hundred years earlier. He shoots and kills the first deer that comes along on opening day.

Who is to say which hunter has the richer, more authentic hunting experience? If the primary objection against the practice of "baiting" is that it is too easy and requires little or no effort, then certainly the Wisconsin deer hunter has put far more effort into killing his deer than has his counterpart who has merely staked out his deer stand on opening day and rather opportunistically "hunted" the deer he knows beforehand will frequent his apple trees.

In the case of the habitual deer baiter, what outsiders would criticize as unfair advantage and unsporting practice actually contributes to a year round interest in deer. The deer baiter is probably more of a "hunter-naturalist" or "nature hunter" than most hunters. His shot at close range on opening day is almost assured of being a well-aimed, carefully selected, and quickly killing clean shot.

The second hunter may hunt only deer; and only hunt once a year. His hunting experience lasts approximately an hour, or two at the most, among the apple trees on opening day. He may not give much thought to nature, to deer biology, to the wind or the vagaries of scent, or to much else. (Perhaps he is a college professor who is in a hurry to get back into the office for a 9:30 appointment with a student advisee.) Nonetheless, his shot at close range on opening day is almost equally assured of being a well-aimed, carefully sighted, and quickly killing clean shot.

And yet at the moment of the kill, each of these two individuals may feel that pang of remorse: that momentary sense of pity and fear, of attraction and repulsion at what they have done-regret for having killed, but gladness for having done it well. That emotional response may in fact be partly what drives them each year to make the effort that they do make, to get up well before dawn on opening day and to go afield in pursuit of killing a deer. Each individual experiences the hunt in a different way. Each individual takes care to ensure that there is a high probability of killing the animal almost instantly if and when the opportunity to shoot presents itself.

Where these two hunters' experience differs is in the respective style or aesthetics of their hunts, not in the ethics of their hunts. "Ethics" generally is a term that is chronically misused in the popular hunting press. Each hunter follows his own ritual way of preparing for the hunt; each hunter conscientiously minimizes the chances of wounding and losing a deer; and each hunter enjoys the hunt in his own fashion. "Baiting" of game animals seems to attract the same type of criticisms that the potting of sitting ducks does, and for similar reasons. But I think it important to recognize that each form is simply a variation on a theme: the musical metaphor is apt.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Thanks for the post, start planting your apple trees now. 

I used to think mountain lions were really cool and why would anyone want to kill one, so I decided I would not, not that they should not.  However, after trying some steaks, I would definitely shoot one now.   

It is frustrating when hunters won't support other hunters even if they do not use whatever the method is.

Yes...mountain lion is some good eating...some of the best wild game I have had. 

[grundy53]

I haven't hunted deer or elk over bait. But I have no problem with it. Just haven't tried it. I'm all for baiting. I still can't believe how hunters can be so easily convinced to take away fellow hunters prefered methods.

[huntnphool]

If they ban bait then what will they do to someone sitting next to a food plot..............or alfalfa field...................or water hole? Its all technically "bait".

Fu#$ing liberal whiners!

[DBHAWTHORNE]

If they ban bait then what will they do to someone sitting next to a food plot..............or alfalfa field...................or water hole? Its all technically "bait".

Fu#$ing liberal whiners!

Exactly.The non-landowner/pubic land hunter/little guy is the one that will really lose out if they ban baiting.

[huntnphool]

If they ban bait then what will they do to someone sitting next to a food plot..............or alfalfa field...................or water hole? Its all technically "bait".

Fu#$ing liberal whiners!

Exactly.The non-landowner/pubic land hunter/little guy is the one that will really lose out if they ban baiting.

It always cracks me up when you run across one of the rare hunters that says baiting is bad, yet they have no issues sitting in a tree stand over a field of alfalfa, winter wheat or water hole, or hunting with the ultimate bait................a doe in estrus during the rut.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

 A buddy of mine killed his first buck this year near bait (not feeding on bait but following a doe through the area where he had bait). He killed a nice whitetail that any hunter should be proud of (SEREVG at http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,104624.465.html). I can tell you he was pumped and I don't think bait cheapened the first buck experience in the slightest.

More than anything I hope baiting is still allowed when I introduce my kids to hunting.

[Kowsrule30]

I personally only put out salt licks... But I do have a property full of apple, peach, and pear trees... It's not baiting if the deer are stealing my fruit..   

[L8NITE]

I put out apples for my son his first couple years...he never shot anything over them but I felt it might give him a more stable shot if the deer was to come in and start feeding and not on high alert and having a rushed shot. I see nothing wrong with it as long as people clean up there garbage (wrappers,etc) and not leave a mess! A buddy of mine had a yearling button buck in his pasture that appeared sickly early in the year and its hair was all patchy and he could barely move around. He decided to dump apples for the deer and within several months all his hair was grown back in and his ribs quit showing. He joined up with six other deer that frequent the pasture and appears very healthy...had not been for the extra nutrition he probably would have turned into predator food 

[LittleJohn]

No baiting allowed here in Montana. Some how guys manage to kill big whitetails without bait.

I am sure all "Master-Baiters"  could still kill mature deer without the corn and hay. A little more scouting and work maybe.

I am not anti-baiting. I did the NE corner whitetail bait show one season. It was fun, but felt a little like cheating.

A very good friend of mine is more successful and kills more mature bucks without bait. Just has them figured out

[DBHAWTHORNE]

No baiting allowed here in Montana. Some how guys manage to kill big whitetails without bait.

I am sure all "Master-Baiters"  could still kill mature deer without the corn and hay. A little more scouting and work maybe.

I am not anti-baiting. I did the NE corner whitetail bait show one season. It was fun, but felt a little like cheating.

A very good friend of mine is more successful and kills more mature bucks without bait. Just has them figured out

Undoubtedly a guy can kill a mature deer without bait... that's beside the point. It's also possible to kill them with traditional archery equipment if a guy were to put in a little more time and practice. Should we ban all other weapons? (I know your not anti-baiting...just making a point)

Baiting is far from a short cut for consistent success on mature whitetail. I have killed big bucks with and without bait and I spent far more time, money and effort on the bucks I killed with bait. What baiting has allowed me to do is find far more mature bucks than would be otherwise possible....and get some awesome trail cam pics.