Lock The Gates

[Rainier10]

 
Glad to hear something has been done, it is a start.

[colockumelk]

Like I mentioned, 1 main rd through the unit away from the wintering grounds and gated/barricaded roads that lead off of it.

I completely support this.  I call these places semi-wilderness areas.  They have enough roads so you can drive into the back country but not so many spur roads that every drainage has a road into it.  Every single study shows a direct correlation between road densities and animal numbers and health. 

The GMUs that have the most amount of non-native poaching and native overharvest is in the Colockum (251, 328, 329) Manastash, (340) Umptaneum (343), Nile (352) Bethel (360) and the Cowiche (368).  What do they all have in common?  They have high densities of road access.  This leafs to the animals having less areas to escape people from. 

Now let's compare the GMUs that have the healthiest herds and what they have in common.  Places such as The Wenaha and Tuccannon units, Teannaway (335), Little Nachese (346) Bumping (356) and Rimrock (364).  They all have small road densities.  They see very small amounts of non-native poachijg and native overharvesting. 

The cheapest and easiest way to protect our herds and increase their size and health is road closures plain and simple.  Even during a good economy the WDFW doesn't have enough money to hire enough game wardens to properly patrol and protect our animals from poaching.  So more wardens to he effective is a pipe dream.  Even then places with alot of roads still get hammered by licensed hunters.  Colockum is a perfect example of what to many roads does. 

As far as stricter penalties the WDFW does not have the power to set penalties and fines. Our state legislature does that.  The WDFW only enforces the rules set in place. 

The best way is to close off all the spur roads that seem to go into every drainage.  And leave open all the main roads so people can still reasonably access a general area.  I hear tike and time again people saying we have a right to go every where on public land.  Which I agree. But nowhere does it say that you uave the right to drive everywhere on public land.  If you can walk there then you can still access the land.  And if a spur road gets closed thats one less road our taxes have to pay to maintain that can instead go to pay for enforcement. Also for enforcement that equals a smaller area they have to patrol making enforcment densities thicker.

   (Never been to the Entiat so I am not referring specifically to the Entiat in this post)

[fishunt247]

This is a great step in the right direction. Kudos to those who set the ball in motion.

Why can't there be access closures like in the Cowiche and Oak Creek areas, which would make key wintering grounds closed to all access, motorized and non? I understand that the areas with these winter through April 30 closure are where elk are fed, but there have to be certain areas that are the epicenter of deer wintering grounds. It'd be nice to see a few areas totally closed. I'm not saying close the entire area, though it would be ideal. I'm just talking about a few key areas.

[huntnphool]

Like I mentioned, 1 main rd through the unit away from the wintering grounds and gated/barricaded roads that lead off of it.

I completely support this.  I call these places semi-wilderness areas.  They have enough roads so you can drive into the back country but not so many spur roads that every drainage has a road into it.  Every single study shows a direct correlation between road densities and animal numbers and health. 

The GMUs that have the most amount of non-native poaching and native overharvest is in the Colockum (251, 328, 329) Manastash, (340) Umptaneum (343), Nile (352) Bethel (360) and the Cowiche (368).  What do they all have in common?  They have high densities of road access.  This leafs to the animals having less areas to escape people from. 

Now let's compare the GMUs that have the healthiest herds and what they have in common.  Places such as The Wenaha and Tuccannon units, Teannaway (335), Little Nachese (346) Bumping (356) and Rimrock (364).  They all have small road densities.  They see very small amounts of non-native poachijg and native overharvesting. 

The cheapest and easiest way to protect our herds and increase their size and health is road closures plain and simple.  Even during a good economy the WDFW doesn't have enough money to hire enough game wardens to properly patrol and protect our animals from poaching.  So more wardens to he effective is a pipe dream.  Even then places with alot of roads still get hammered by licensed hunters.  Colockum is a perfect example of what to many roads does. 

As far as stricter penalties the WDFW does not have the power to set penalties and fines. Our state legislature does that.  The WDFW only enforces the rules set in place. 

The best way is to close off all the spur roads that seem to go into every drainage.  And leave open all the main roads so people can still reasonably access a general area.  I hear tike and time again people saying we have a right to go every where on public land.  Which I agree. But nowhere does it say that you uave the right to drive everywhere on public land.  If you can walk there then you can still access the land.  And if a spur road gets closed thats one less road our taxes have to pay to maintain that can instead go to pay for enforcement. Also for enforcement that equals a smaller area they have to patrol making enforcment densities thicker.

   (Never been to the Entiat so I am not referring specifically to the Entiat in this post)

Spot on Colock.

 I want to make sure everyone knows that this is not solely a indian problem, there is plenty of blame to go around and poaching is a problem as well.

 

[Fishmasterdan]

This is an absolute insult. How would you like it if some group of activist's stopped you from driving down your driveway because of wintering frogs. You would be mad as hell. You should be mad as hell because that is exactly whats happening to OUR lands. These public lands are for OUR use.
I am tired of hearing "well there is too many poachers, or people dumb garbage". That's bull caca, thats why we have police and forest service people for. We need to enforce the rules we currently have. Its no different than gun laws. We dont need to restrirct guns, we need to enforce the laws currently in place.
You are restricting access to some while giving others an advantage due to locked gates. You could sell all the dumb as gates in this state and employ a full time officer for the cost of maintain the gates.

[boneaddict]

I understand, The above sign REALLY pissed me off when it went up in 2005.  I used to snowmobile in there and hunt coyotes and photograph.   It had to be done though.  Now I have an area to snowshoe if I want.    There are still some that go around the gate.  I hope they sock it to them when caught.   

[6x6in6]

This is an absolute insult. How would you like it if some group of activist's stopped you from driving down your driveway because of wintering frogs. You would be mad as hell. You should be mad as hell because that is exactly whats happening to OUR lands. These public lands are for OUR use.
I am tired of hearing "well there is too many poachers, or people dumb garbage". That's bull caca, thats why we have police and forest service people for. We need to enforce the rules we currently have. Its no different than gun laws. We dont need to restrirct guns, we need to enforce the laws currently in place.
You are restricting access to some while giving others an advantage due to locked gates. You could sell all the dumb as gates in this state and employ a full time officer for the cost of maintain the gates.

Bull caca?  Really?  So your OK with leaving the roads open and depending on the Forest Service personnel and the police spending 24/7 to enforce the laws (rules)? 
Selling all the gates to employ an officer for the cost to maintain the gates....that officer has a lot of ground to cover across this State where those gates used to be.

Sure would be a lucrative private contract to secure for the gate removal though.  The environmental reviews and related permitting would be expensive. 

[JLS]

Like I mentioned, 1 main rd through the unit away from the wintering grounds and gated/barricaded roads that lead off of it.

I completely support this.  I call these places semi-wilderness areas.  They have enough roads so you can drive into the back country but not so many spur roads that every drainage has a road into it.  Every single study shows a direct correlation between road densities and animal numbers and health. 

The GMUs that have the most amount of non-native poaching and native overharvest is in the Colockum (251, 328, 329) Manastash, (340) Umptaneum (343), Nile (352) Bethel (360) and the Cowiche (368).  What do they all have in common?  They have high densities of road access.  This leafs to the animals having less areas to escape people from. 

Now let's compare the GMUs that have the healthiest herds and what they have in common.  Places such as The Wenaha and Tuccannon units, Teannaway (335), Little Nachese (346) Bumping (356) and Rimrock (364).  They all have small road densities.  They see very small amounts of non-native poachijg and native overharvesting. 

The cheapest and easiest way to protect our herds and increase their size and health is road closures plain and simple.  Even during a good economy the WDFW doesn't have enough money to hire enough game wardens to properly patrol and protect our animals from poaching.  So more wardens to he effective is a pipe dream.  Even then places with alot of roads still get hammered by licensed hunters.  Colockum is a perfect example of what to many roads does. 

As far as stricter penalties the WDFW does not have the power to set penalties and fines. Our state legislature does that.  The WDFW only enforces the rules set in place. 

The best way is to close off all the spur roads that seem to go into every drainage.  And leave open all the main roads so people can still reasonably access a general area.  I hear tike and time again people saying we have a right to go every where on public land.  Which I agree. But nowhere does it say that you uave the right to drive everywhere on public land.  If you can walk there then you can still access the land.  And if a spur road gets closed thats one less road our taxes have to pay to maintain that can instead go to pay for enforcement. Also for enforcement that equals a smaller area they have to patrol making enforcment densities thicker.

   (Never been to the Entiat so I am not referring specifically to the Entiat in this post)

Add Lick Creek to your list of high/over harvest areas.  Ironically, good road access.

[JLS]

This is an absolute insult. How would you like it if some group of activist's stopped you from driving down your driveway because of wintering frogs. You would be mad as hell. You should be mad as hell because that is exactly whats happening to OUR lands. These public lands are for OUR use.
I am tired of hearing "well there is too many poachers, or people dumb garbage". That's bull caca, thats why we have police and forest service people for. We need to enforce the rules we currently have. Its no different than gun laws. We dont need to restrirct guns, we need to enforce the laws currently in place.
You are restricting access to some while giving others an advantage due to locked gates. You could sell all the dumb as gates in this state and employ a full time officer for the cost of maintain the gates.

If the primary purpose is to provide winter range, then I am A-okay with closing down access during the more vulnerable months of the year.

[Fishmasterdan]

If the primary purpose is to provide winter range, then I am A-okay with closing down access during the more vulnerable months of the year.


I would agree with that. 

[JLS]

If the primary purpose is to provide winter range, then I am A-okay with closing down access during the more vulnerable months of the year.


I would agree with that.

[skywalker253]

This is an absolute insult. How would you like it if some group of activist's stopped you from driving down your driveway because of wintering frogs. You would be mad as hell. You should be mad as hell because that is exactly whats happening to OUR lands. These public lands are for OUR use.
I am tired of hearing "well there is too many poachers, or people dumb garbage". That's bull caca, thats why we have police and forest service people for. We need to enforce the rules we currently have. Its no different than gun laws. We dont need to restrirct guns, we need to enforce the laws currently in place.
You are restricting access to some while giving others an advantage due to locked gates. You could sell all the dumb as gates in this state and employ a full time officer for the cost of maintain the gates.

I understand your point regarding public lands being for our use. I agree with you. The issue at hand; if the public land areas are abused, then we no longer have a reason to go up there. We are better off having them temporarily closed to try and protect the resource versus leaving them open. Unfortunately the funding is not in place to employee the resources needed to try and catch people in the act. No different then your local police. A priority call, such as a domestic violence incident will get responded to before an auto theft. We live in a reactive society. I am guessing little will be done in these areas, until the animals are shot off. Then the WSDFW will launch a huge effort to restore the area and use it as an example of how great they manage our wildlife. Reactive not proactive...

[predatorpro]

wont closing gates just make more people hunt in less number of areas? gate roads and they just go somewhere else which would cause other areas to be overhunted from an increase in more hunters in an area

[huntnphool]

wont closing gates just make more people hunt in less number of areas? gate roads and they just go somewhere else which would cause other areas to be overhunted from an increase in more hunters in an area

Guys..............we are not talking about general season and permit hunters in this thread. Please read through the thread if you do not understand the entire topic, thanks.

[colockumelk]

wont closing gates just make more people hunt in less number of areas? gate roads and they just go somewhere else which would cause other areas to be overhunted from an increase in more hunters in an area

Won't matter because when hunting pressure comes around the animals leave. They will go to places that they can escape from hunting pressure.  If this is the west side where its super thick this could be 1/4 mile from the road.  If its an open area such as the Colockum this could mean getting at least 2 miles from the roads.  The problem for places like the Colockum is if there isnt any places that the animals can go to get 2 miles from a road. 

So if road closures happen in GMU 1 driving more hunters to GMU 2 because GMU 2 has a lot of roads.... Most likely there's already a bunch of people in GMU 2 whose pressure pushes the animals away from the roads anyways.  There wont be much affect.