The Best Glue?

[Chesapeake]

Why a blended product of unknown chemical consistency (denatured alcohol)?

91% or 99% IPA should be on your short list of cleaners.

[BULLBLASTER]

You could just switch to fusion vanes and superglue. In 4 years of using them I haven't had one come off at the glue. They tear just above the base. I have never really had any issues getting fletching to stay on the arrow with superglue... but I also haven't shot blazers...

[Klyne3]

I'm using the Zeon Fusions. I haven't had any problems with them and have used superglue also. However my son is using Blazers on his new arrows and we used fletch tite gel on alum arrows and so far no problems with them.

[konrad]

Why a blended product of unknown chemical consistency (denatured alcohol)?

91% or 99% IPA should be on your short list of cleaners.

3 quarts in the mail...
K

[RadSav]

Why a blended product of unknown chemical consistency (denatured alcohol)?

91% or 99% IPA should be on your short list of cleaners.

3 quarts in the mail...
K

99% IPA on the list = fine!  91% would never be on my list.  Denatured Alcohol is at least 90% ethanol with at least another 4% methanol to make it poisonous.  Neither are a problem with cleaning.  The problems arise when the addition of Mineral Naphtha is made.  That's basically petroleum oil!  When the ethanol and methanol concentrations are good it doesn't bother much.  But leave the lid off the can too long and the alcohol begins to evaporate and the concentration of oil and water gets higher. 

You won't see a film left on a white paper towel.  You need to wipe a little on a glass mirror to visually see a film.

I don't understand the idea behind using sandpaper on an aluminum shaft.  Beyond the need to remove a finish glaze from some graphite shafts, that often become an insulator, I don't see the need to use it on them either.  You are not creating a pore that will help create a mechanical bond.  You are just making grooves that will hold dirt, grime and restrict the amount of molecules making direct contact with the surface.  If the adhesives we use were capable of penetrating extreme fine grooves there might be case for increased surface contact.  But that is not the case here.

Wetting is an important part of any chemical bonding procedure.  This is the reason the majority of your adhesives have directions about applying glue to both surfaces before bonding.  Since we do not wet the shaft when fletching arrows it is important that our adhesives can easily become attracted to the positive or negative charged surface of the shaft material.  Applying grooves can potentially raise some material to a point where charges of the base material are actually opposing each other making it nearly impossible for the adhesive molecule to form a proper link in the chain.  Besides the fact that most glues used in archery do not have the viscosity to penetrate these grooves so the amount of contact between the shaft and the adhesive has actually been reduced meaning less wetting and a weaker bond.

When properly testing one needs to have a base sample where all things remain constant.  From that point changes need to be made in incremental stages.  If you add four points of change and see some improvement how will you know what process or ingredient made such an improvement possible?  Perhaps one of those four principles gave marked improvement, but one of the others cancelled it out!  You will never know unless you proceed in incremental stages and maintain the integrity of the base sample.

Sounds like you are having fun!  Wish I had the time to play along with you

[konrad]

1.   The isopropyl alcohol en route is listed as 99% by volume.
2.   I wiped a generous amount of the denatured alcohol currently in my stock and have being used for testing on my patio door. There was absolutely no discernable residue left behind. (The label actually suggests a water/alcohol blend for cleaning glass.) Now I have a conspicuously clean area on my patio door and when my wife sees it…well, I’ll probably get roped into cleaning all of the windows…THANKS A LOT!
3.    In every bonding experiment I have conducted in industrial applications, the manufacturers of the bonding agent required roughing of the substrate usually with sand or metallic blasting of the intended bonding surfaces followed by at least two solvent washes. The very best bonding agents required two air dried coatings and activation by heat (a time/temperature combination) prior to final assembly. In the case of these shafts, the applied camouflage (they were on sale) had small imperfections in the surface amounting to ripples at the edge of each color change. The light sanding of the application area actually smoothed the surface (to the touch) and also removed some of the decorative coating while at the same time provided a microscopic mechanical “tooth” to the finish material. I have the suspicion that were I to completely remove the decoration down to the substrate alloy, there would be no bonding issues at all but I have yet to go to that extreme.

A preliminary result from yesterday’s bonding tests:

I used the Loctite Super Glue Ultra Gel Control for the first time.
The two test shafts were prepped as outlined previously.
This adhesive was by far the easiest to work with of all the Cyno-acrylate adhesives I have ever used. Its consistency was thicker than that of styrene model glue or Fletchtite without the associated “stringing”. After application of the vanes, there was absolutely no running or sagging of the adhesive.
The shafts were allowed to cure for almost 12 hours before my curiosity got the better of me.

When I say those Blazers were “welded’ to the shafts, I am not kidding. There was no amount of twisting, peeling, prying or use of harsh language that could achieve a bond failure. It was only with the use of my razor knife that I was able to remove those vanes. Then I had to cut the remaining plastic and adhesive off of the shaft substrate.
Now that’s the bond quality I’m looking for!

The only downside to the Loctite product was the quantity of adhesive in each bottle (i.e. .14 oz or 4 grams versus .53 oz or 15 grams in the Gorilla bottle).

The Fletchtite Platinum Plus and Gorilla adhesive bonds will not be ready for testing until late tomorrow.

I’m off to nab some lacquer thinner now.

[BULLBLASTER]

I checked what I use. It is instance cure extra thick from the hobby shop. Much cheaper than the archery glues... I have used it on fusion vanes as well as aae and even feathers with good results. I sand the shaft with a drywall sanding sponge and wash with only water before application.

[RadSav]

Now I have a conspicuously clean area on my patio door and when my wife sees it…well, I’ll probably get roped into cleaning all of the windows…THANKS A LOT!

That's funny

I agree the cyano glues that have the rubber mix have been a much improved result.  They are much better in cold weather too which was my biggest gripe with the Super-Glues.  I'm looking forward to hearing your comparison between the Loctite and Gorilla.

Don't forget to let the shafts sit for at least four hours after using the Lacquer thinner when fletching with cyano glues.  With alcohol you can get right to it.  But with the lacquer thinner you have to wait.  That is unless you are using NPV or standard Platinum.  In that case no waiting required.

Sure sounds like a fun product testing.  Call me an "Archery Nerd" I guess.  But I find this type of testing/playing much more fun than playing video games or watching reality shows.