Long distance shots

[Phishead]

I'm relatively new to muzzleloading and bought a beautiful new BigHorn this year. The one thing I haven't figured out is the distance limit on my gun at this point. I can hit targets at 100yards consistently. However I've read about guys shooting upwards of 200yards with their muzzleloaders. How is this achieved? I shoot 100gr of powder with 295 gr powerbelt bullet. do I need to increase my powder volume to get the distance? any info is greatly appreciated.

[boneaddict]

I like your 100 yard max.   With open sites, I think it would take a tremendous amount of practice to be able to shoot out that far.   

[Skyvalhunter]

Spoken from the longbow king!!

[sirmissalot]

I can consistently hit the gong at the range at 200 yards with mine but I'm not a muzzleloader hunter. It only drops about a foot. I shoot the 290 grain Barnes TMZ with 150 grains of pyrodex

[mtman]

I've heard of people shooting that far too, Never seen it. That front sight starts covering way too much at that distance.Those people are probably practicing  none stop or they don't talk about all the other shots.

[jrebel]

I would strongly recommend a peep sight if you want to shoot that far.  Sight your rifle in at the furthest rang and then hold under for closer.  This will fix the problem of your sight covering your the animal.  Completely backwards way of thought so it takes tons of practice.

[lonedave]

If you're going to shoot that far at game, I'd do as Jrebel says.  I'd also say you're probably going to need a good rangefinder too.  Just a few yards difference either way will make a fairly large change in point of impact at that range, even with the modern stuff.  Also, I don't know how the modern bullets work, but I can tell you a roundball doesn't like the wind, especially at longer ranges!  Personally, when I moved to a traditional muzzleloader from a longbow, I tried to keep the same logic, though maybe modified a little.  With a longbow, I always tried to be 10 yards or less.  With a muzzleloader, I try for 50 yards max.  That way, even an extra 10 - 15 yards and I'm still in good range.  Even in open country like the wide open Snake River canyon, 50 yards is generally do-able and I've taken one buck from inside 10 yards.  Don't get me wrong though, I love shooting at longer distances.  I always figured that if I could be good at long range, the shorter shots would be that much easier.

Dave

[carpsniperg2]

I have done a lot of hunting and shooting with a smokepole. I really feel like 100 yards is a good range "FOR ME" I have shot some deer at up to 130 yards. It gets very hard to do because the front pin covers the majority of the deer at those extended ranges.

[Wea300mag]

This was the first year I hunted muzzy and 80 yards was my limit. After more practice that will extend to 100-120 yards. I can't see me ever shooting 200 unless it's a mangy coyote.

[kevinmeister]

It is my opinion that with a modern black powder rifle a 150+ shot can be a very ethical and lethal shot.  It definitely takes practice.  I shoot a Knight Disc Extreme 50 cal.  (and I can't say enough about this gun).   I spent a lot of time at the range this past fall and it paid off for me.  You have to experiment with what works best for you and your particular rifle.  I started out shooting 300 grain Hornady SST sabots with 120 grains of pyrodex powder.  While zeroing, I was accurate at 75 yards, but at 100 yards, I noticed that my accuracy dropped off and I was experiencing several inches of drop.  I increased the powder to 150 grains and my accuracy improved, but the cannon blast became too much.  So I dropped the weight of my sabot to a 250 grain Hornady SST and keep the powder at 150 grains.  Bingo!!!  Not too much kick, and I was ripping tight groups at 100 yards.  I noticed a much flatter trajectory with less drop on paper.  The other thing that I think is important to work on is your sight picture.   I was speaking with a guy at a range once and I was asking him how I could become more accurate at further distances when my front post would cover the entire target.  He taught me not to cover the target with the front sight but rather "lolly pop" the target with the front sight.  Meaning- place the target on top of the front sight.  This way, the front post and the target will both be visible.   Just as Jrebel said, sight your rifle for the furthest range and then hold under for a closer target.  Lastly, invest in a good peep sight.  Sabotloader has some good threads on Peep sights, front posts and hoods. 

I think the main thing to take from this is that you need to experiment and find what works for you and determine what distance you are comfortable shooting at and that takes a lot of practice. 

[Dan-o]

I've hunted M/L for 35 years or so.   Practiced quite a bit (up to 25-30 times a year for 8-10 years straight).   Got to where I could shoot some pretty nice groups, by my way of thinking.

I have a peep.   I am comfy to 100 yards.

I'm not saying a guy can't ethically shoot at game with a M/L at 200 yards, but I am saying that I can't.   

[kevinmeister]

If you are still shooting a 35 year old Muzzleloader, then I can understand why you are comfortable at 100 yards.  But the newer inline MLs are almost as accurate as a Modern Rifle, especially when you add a peep sight and shooting jacketed sabots. 

[Dan-o]

If you are still shooting a 35 year old Muzzleloader, then I can understand why your are still only "comfy" at 100 yards.  But the newer inline MLs are almost as accurate as a Modern Rifle, especially when you are shooting jacketed sabots.

Yeah, I shoot a T/C Black Diamond XR now.      The thing looks more like a ray gun than a muzzleloader (composite thumbhole stock, stainless barrel).    It is very accurate - as long as I can use the front dot and not cover an entire target.     I have the smallest Williams peep.

I still can't hold groups at 200 yards.   Not saying others can't.   Just saying I can't, and I know I've shot way more than most.   


Clearly, the weapon has the ability to kill humanely at 200 yards.    I just don't think many operators do.   But, to any that can ---->   More power to you.

I think each hunter needs to know their ethical limitations, and that's all I was trying to convey.

[kevinmeister]

Agree 100%.   

[usmc74]

I'm relatively new to muzzleloading and bought a beautiful new BigHorn this year. The one thing I haven't figured out is the distance limit on my gun at this point. I can hit targets at 100yards consistently. However I've read about guys shooting upwards of 200yards with their muzzleloaders. How is this achieved? I shoot 100gr of powder with 295 gr powerbelt bullet. do I need to increase my powder volume to get the distance? any info is greatly appreciated.

I didn't have good accuracy with the powerbelts from my bighorn (older model).  I have been using the SST, 300 gr, w/100 gr of tripple 7 loose.  I do have the peep sight, works great.

[throttlejocky20]

This was my first time using a front stuffer and by the time the season opened i was confident shooting 150 yards. I did take a poke at a cyote at 300 just for fun. I had no idea how far the bullet would drop and holding over the yote vanished because of the barrel. I took a guess and squeezzed off. The old man was standing about 10 feet to my left (to be clear of the smoke) watching with binos. He said dirt flew right behind the hind legs. With that said i would have never taken that shot on a deer or elk!

[HoofsandWings]

If you do not know the range, do you pass on a trophy?
When making a shot, I believe confidence is a big factor. Of course on the other end of the scale, foolishness is a factor.
When I made the shot on a 4 point whitetail, I badly misjudged the distance, but I was confident with the shot.
I thought it was about 100 yards, but when I went back later with a range finder, I found out it was 152 yards.
Standing there, shooting off hand, I had no thoughts except making a good shot at the buck.
 

[Bean Counter]

Not sure where you 'heard' but in some states  you can put a scope on your muzzy. That would make reaching otu to 200 much easier.

[kevinmeister]

A scope is illegal in this state. 

[whacker1]

A scope is illegal in this state.

Yes, but a scope will help you at the range to take the open sight / human factor out of shooting to determine most accurate load. 

I did this with my Rem 700 ml a few years ago, and narrowed it down to the bullet that shot best with a certain powder combination.  tried several different bullets with various powder combinations.

I only changed powder this year, when I figured out I could tighten the groups a little by going from 70 grain fffg to 80 grains fffg.

I hope to shoot more this spring than I have in the last 2 years now that I should have a hair more time.

[CAMPMEAT]

You can use a scope in this state. Equipment and Hunting Methods page 74 section 5 in Muzzleloader Regulations.

[HoofsandWings]

You can use a scope in this state. Equipment and Hunting Methods page 74 section 5 in Muzzleloader Regulations.

Only if it is modern rifle season or you are disabled.

3.   In addition to the above requirements,
it is unlawful to participate (hunt) in a
muzzleloading hunting season using a
firearm that does not meet the following
specifications for a muzzleloader. As in
the past sabots are allowed. Any type of
projectile is allowed.
A modern handgun may be carried for
personal protection. Modern handguns
cannot be used to hunt big game or
dispatch wounded big game during a big
game hunting season for muzzleloading
firearms.
a.   Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock,
flintlock, or percussion using original
style percussion caps that fit on the
nipple and are exposed to the weather.
"Exposed to the weather" means the
percussion cap or the frizzen must
be visible and not capable of being
enclosed by an integral part of the
weapon proper. Primers designed to be
used in modern cartridges are not legal.
b.   Sights must be open, peep, or of other
open sight design. Fiber optic sights
are legal. Telescopic sights or sights
containing glass are prohibited.
c.   It is unlawful to have any electrical
device or equipment attached to a
muzzleloading firearm while hunting.
d.   Those persons lawfully hunting
big game with a double barrel
muzzleloader may only keep one barrel
loaded.
4.   Hunters with disabilities who meet the
definition of being visually impaired in
WAC 232-12-828 may receive a special
use permit that would allow the use of
scopes or other visual aids. A disabled
hunter permit holder in possession of a
special use permit that allows the use of a
scope or visual aid may hunt game birds
or game animals during muzzleloader
seasons. Contact the Department’s ADA
manager for further information.
5.   Muzzleloading firearms used during a
modern firearm season are not required
to meet ignition, sight, or double barrel
restrictions.

[Labs07]

I have shot 3 deer at over 100 yards and a bull at 75 yards.  I do practice but not all the time maybe once a month at the range and then a few times right before the opener.  All of my shots including the shot on the bull were one shot one kill and only one even ran and that was only 50 or so yards.  I know longer range is doable but not for me.  My max, I believe, is around 130 to 140 yards.

[kevinmeister]

Wish that were true, but you had better check the WA Big Game Hunting Regulations again CAMPMEAT.

That is the trouble with how the WA hunting regulations are written...  Two people can read them and come away with two different ideas about what is legal and not legal....      Again, a scope is not legal during ML season...

"b.   Sights must be open, peep, or of other
open sight design. Fiber optic sights
are legal. Telescopic sights or sights
containing glass are prohibited."

[CAMPMEAT]

You can use a scope in this state. Equipment and Hunting Methods page 74 section 5 in Muzzleloader Regulations.

Only if it is modern rifle season or you are disabled.

3.   In addition to the above requirements,
it is unlawful to participate (hunt) in a
muzzleloading hunting season using a
firearm that does not meet the following
specifications for a muzzleloader. As in
the past sabots are allowed. Any type of
projectile is allowed.
A modern handgun may be carried for
personal protection. Modern handguns
cannot be used to hunt big game or
dispatch wounded big game during a big
game hunting season for muzzleloading
firearms.
a.   Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock,
flintlock, or percussion using original
style percussion caps that fit on the
nipple and are exposed to the weather.
"Exposed to the weather" means the
percussion cap or the frizzen must
be visible and not capable of being
enclosed by an integral part of the
weapon proper. Primers designed to be
used in modern cartridges are not legal.
b.   Sights must be open, peep, or of other
open sight design. Fiber optic sights
are legal. Telescopic sights or sights
containing glass are prohibited.
c.   It is unlawful to have any electrical
device or equipment attached to a
muzzleloading firearm while hunting.
d.   Those persons lawfully hunting
big game with a double barrel
muzzleloader may only keep one barrel
loaded.
4.   Hunters with disabilities who meet the
definition of being visually impaired in
WAC 232-12-828 may receive a special
use permit that would allow the use of
scopes or other visual aids. A disabled
hunter permit holder in possession of a
special use permit that allows the use of a
scope or visual aid may hunt game birds
or game animals during muzzleloader
seasons. Contact the Department’s ADA
manager for further information.
5.   Muzzleloading firearms used during a
modern firearm season are not required
to meet ignition, sight, or double barrel
restrictions.

Why do people always have to argue about a simple question answered by a simple response.........

[CAMPMEAT]

Wish that were true, but you had better check the WA Big Game Hunting Regulations again CAMPMEAT.

That is the trouble with how the WA hunting regulations are written...  Two people can read them and come away with two different ideas about what is legal and not legal....      Again, a scope is not legal during ML season...

"b.   Sights must be open, peep, or of other
open sight design. Fiber optic sights
are legal. Telescopic sights or sights
containing glass are prohibited."

Read my response. He didn't ask about ALL of rights or wrongs, he asked if you could use a scope, plain and simple.

[HoofsandWings]

Yes, we are making sure no one misinterprets what is said here.
If you can quote chapter and verse, then no problem.
But if you are a casual reader, that is something else.
The penalties for being underinformed/misinformed are severe.

If you make a statement, you should qualify it to be sure no one can mis-interpret what you say.
Not all of us read and understand the regs.

Then there are some of us that have never read the regs.

[CAMPMEAT]

Yes, we are making sure no one misinterprets what is said here.
If you can quote chapter and verse, then no problem.
But if you are a casual reader, that is something else.
The penalties for being underinformed/misinformed are severe.

If you make a statement, you should qualify it to be sure no one can mis-interpret what you say.
Not all of us read and understand the regs.

Then there are some of us that have never read the regs.

I know what you mean, sorry for being a little crass, but people should learn how to read, look something up instead of relying on other peoples take on things. It's all right there if they take the time to investigate.  I never, ever take someones word for it. The best thing to do is call the WDFW and get the wrong answer. 

[kevinmeister]

[/quote]

Why do people always have to argue about a simple question answered by a simple response.........
[/quote]Because contrary to your beliefs, this world is filled with stupid people that would take your word for it and go put a scope on their ML...  This is the world we live in.... people that don't read the rules but will take your word for it.... 

[colockumelk]

In 2008 and 2009 I was 100% confident out to 150yds, with a self imposed limit of 200yds.
This year my max limit was 125.

The difference was this year I wasn't able to get out to the range nearly as much as I did in the past.  My max range I will shoot changes each year based on how much I get to practise and my confidence level.  And yes I have a peep sight, and experimented with a bunch of different loads.  Furrently I shoot 100grains of 777 loose and a 300 grain deep curl bullet.

[turkey slayer]

It really just matters what u are comfortable with. I know guys that wont shot over a 100 yards with a inline. I shot a big horn and I am comfo
rable at 200 yards. But that doesn't mean u are.
     I shot 9 month out of the year it might only be 5 bullets a months but I know my gun and the powder it likes and the grain of bullets it like to shoot. I use 120 loose powder and TC 250 shock waves. My gun is sighted in at 4inches high a 100 yards.
     I have a kill shot at 187yards deer ran 30 yards and piled up. I have a 176 yard shot that the deer dropped in its track and a 130+ yard shot and fell in its tracks and the last deer was 25 yards bedded down.
     Practice is the key with muzzleloader test bullets and try pellets or loss powder.Lot of people don't have anyware to shot I'm forgenet we have a local range out of town that locals can shoot at.
      I no a lot of people will disagree with me but that is what I can shoot