Have at me....

[Larry S.]

“When someone persuades me that I’m wrong, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" - Variously attributed.

As an honest answer, I’ve been persuaded and have changed my mind on something.

I own more than a few firearms and I’ve often written, positively, regarding responsible firearm use and ownership, and will continue to do so in the future.

However, I’m also the grandfather of a 7-year-old angel named Lori and, before she moved to Texas, I was a volunteer in her second-grade classroom. Because of that, and since the shootings in Newtown, there hasn’t been a waking hour wherein I haven’t thought, “There, but for the grace of God...”

I’ve been thinking about other things too. More so since hearing the speech given by Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the NRA.

I’d waited for that speech - hoping it would include an offer to throw the weight, resources, and expertise of the NRA into an all-out effort to find solutions to the mass killings that’ve occurred in this nation.

Unfortunately, I was disappointed. Disappointed that there wasn’t some acknowledgment that the right to “Keep and Bear Arms" must be balanced by a child’s right to live. Disappointed at the tone. Disappointed at the narrowness of the proposed plan. As one proposal in an “all fronts” effort to end these tragedies, certainly worthwhile, but as the sole solution? Hardly.

There isn’t a “one idea will fix everything” solution to what we’re facing and anything we do will, likely, not have provable effects in the short term. Society cooked this elephant and it’ll have to be eaten one bite at a time. Still, that’s not an excuse for us to avoid considering as many roadblocks to carnage as can be found to put in the paths of the killers amongst us.

If we want to consider possible steps, here’s one. We could stop caring about how a firearm looks. Looks are cosmetic. Where we need to focus is on “what” and, more importantly, “how many” come out of the muzzle. Simply put, we need to decrease the volume of fire.

In the area of military look-alike rifles, limiting the capacity of existing magazines or even banning “large capacity” magazines won't be effective as long as electrical tape exists. Limit any magazine to “X” (5, 10, 15, etc.) rounds and anyone can tape three together and we're back to square one in less time than it takes to read this sentence.

Think, instead, of requiring civilian versions of such rifles to be designed with fixed, non-detachable magazines holding fewer rounds (I’m now for low, single digits) that have to be hand-loaded through the ejection port. This would slow things down by an order of magnitude.

Further, every other idea must be on the table and given equal consideration. Better guidelines for identifying and getting the mentally disturbed into (funded) treatment. Denial of sales to those with serious and ongoing mental problems. Swift and harsh punishment for crimes involving the use of firearms. Legal accountability for incidents involving firearms not adequately secured. Ensuring that background checks occur with every purchase - no matter where made.

Consider a direct, federal tax credit equal to the current retail price of the firearm for anyone wishing to turn one in. Consider safety education in schools and required training when a firearm is purchased. Consider where media violence, games, movies, and a declining respect for authority and personal accountability have led us.

Neither side will get everything (See: Compromise, n.) they wish. The hard-over, anti-gun faction will shout that anything short of banning everything including (dull) butter knives isn’t enough and the pro-gun hardliners will swear that Dillon M134D Gatling Guns (chambered in 7.62mm Nato and capable of 3000 rounds per minute) should be available to everyone - “just in case.”

I’ve changed my mind about round capacity in these firearms because I believe that it’s one, small “roadblock to carnage” that’s needed. Too, I keep imagining those kids facing a literal fusillade of bullets in their last moments and, in my own worst moments, I can put my granddaughter’s face into that picture.

And, if that image wouldn’t change a person’s mind, I’m not sure what would.
Finally, if such thinking makes someone the face of the “enemy” - to either side - then things are nowhere near as bad as we think.

They are, in fact, far worse. And headed downhill from there.

[Hawgdawg]

 

[boneaddict]

THough I would consider your speach very longwinded and thus hard to find the point of it all, a tactic I think most lawyers and politicians use these days, I'd like to keep it simple.   Its not the device that is the problem it is the user.   Bare in mind, I do not own an AR or black rifle,  and I do most of my killing with a longbow.   

[Larry S.]

It's good, funny, pithy...and I believed pretty much the same up until I read about one child soaking up 11 rounds at close range. Then, I found myself staying awake at night wondering what in the heck we- responsible firearm owners - could do to drive the conversation.

I have no basic problem with large capacity firearms or their magazines. But, we need to find ways to keep them out of the hands of the crazies. Remember that we put extremely harsh restrictions on the ownership of full-auto firearms that, at one time, could be ordered through the mail. That was back in the 1930's. We did that for a reason.

If we (you, me, other firearm owners) do not come up with good, rational, thoughtful proposals and solutions that will work, we're going to see more and more demands that congress (whose members, in general, wouldn't know a forearm from a foreskin) do something. And we know how that usually works out.

- Larry Simoneaux

[Huntbear]

Unfortunately, people who commit mass murder like the vile mentally ill person in CT, will not stop just because we take large magazines away.

I know of several tube fed .22 LR semi autos that shoot more than 10 or more rounds.  They kill just as well.  The capacity of the magazine, the look of the rifle means nothing.   You can get a .22 LR that looks just like the big bad AR15.. do we ban those too? 

It does not matter what you say law abiding citizens can or can not have...  Criminals and the insane will use it anyway....

[jaymark6655]

If we (you, me, other firearm owners) do not come up with good, rational, thoughtful proposals and solutions that will work, we're going to see more and more demands that congress (whose members, in general, wouldn't know a forearm from a foreskin) do something. And we know how that usually works out.

- Larry Simoneaux

Everytime we compromise, the next time around they scream for even more.  "The original ban didn't work, so that's why we need a more inclusive ban."  I am tired of retreating and giving up rights.

Why do I need high cap mags and a rifle that shoots as fast as I can---- 1st because I can.  2nd because of the second admendment.
I like to shoot and I hate reloading and I would rather be a member of society than a subject of the United States, its happened in the past and our "balance of powers" only does so much to stop it.

There are tons of regulation on the books that should have stopped this.
1.Guy stole firearms---illegal.
2.Guy took firearms to school---illegal.
3.Guy shot people---illegal.

Too me it seems that the law makers have failed us and these children, not the gun makers in owners.  Why should we continue to fall back and give up our rights in order to protect the lives of others when the laws they want do everything to enslave us and nothing to protect future generations.
There have been several mass shootings that have been halted by gun owners, the statistics are there except they aren't mass shootings because the guy was stopped at two or none.  Recent theathre shooting is on good example.  Columbine, they waited for the armed guard to leave for lunch....wonder why?
I have a brand new baby girl and I fear the world she may grow up in if we as gun owners continue to retreat or "compromise".

As you said we got rid of the full autos, they compromised and now they want the semi autos.  Next it will be the pump and lever actions because those can fire just as quick, where do you think they will stop?

[pianoman9701]

There are so many different points in the OP that it's hard to categorize and address them all.

Fear for our Children - I have two grandsons 4 and 9 in TX. This occurred to me, as well and it's damned scary. Only by the grace of luck are they untouched. Sorry, we probably have different beliefs in Providence, but we're on the same page when it comes to our childrens' safety.

High capacity magazines - You touched on a point that is being touted by the left as a safety measure to avoid this kind of mass killing; limiting the capacity of magazines. I think this to be a feel good measure and, as you pointed out, people can stack magazines or carry extras. It takes 2 seconds to change a mag.

Fixed magazines - This isn't going to protect our children from someone intent on hurting a whole bunch of them. We've seen in the '20s that people will bomb schools (already illegal), they'll carry extra weapons, they'll use anything at their disposal to do their deed. It's not about the capacity of a firearm. It's about the mental capacity for someone to be able to kill children.

Mental Health - This is one of the severely lacking sides of healthcare in our country. We give free medical to everyone with their hand out, but the mentally ill are left on the streets with no attention. This should absolutely be addressed. In the past two months, almost all of the highly publicized shootings have been committed by crazy people. After all, who but a completely insane person could look a 6-year old in the face and shoot them?

Your post was certainly thought out, but we get back to the same problem that we'll get back to every time something like this happens, regardless of how the gun laws are changed. Crazy people don't care what the law is. Criminals don't care what the law says. If they want to kill large numbers of people, they will. Ask Timothy McVeigh, Jeffrey Dalmer, Islamic terrorists who fly planes into buildings.

A mini 14 with a large capacity clip is a superb home defense firearm and, in the event of civil unrest due to natural or economic disaster, a weapon that can keep our grandchildren (and the rest of our families) safer, especially with high capacity magazines. I think that it would be a huge mistake to use the actions of insane people to restrict the ability of sane people to protect themselves, and their families, and their property.

If you disagree with me, you should absolutely think about telling your US Congressmen and women how you feel. If you agree with me, don't think about it. Do it now. Our rights, our families, and our safety is risked by what is being proposed.

[bearpaw]

It is illegal to drive drunk, but people do it and kill other people, are we going to outlaw cars? No, instead our police patrol for drunks.

The problem is not the tool or the law abing tool user, the problem is the criminal. The NRA suggested putting an officer in every school, I think that is a great idea. I know an officer in Utah who does school duty a couple days a week, he says that school is a much safer place with a cop on duty, I beleive him.

[Bob33]

Ban high capacity magazines and all school shootings will be eliminated!

Why schools should have dress codes

[halflife65]

Thanks Larry S. and pianoman for thinking about your arguments before just posting outrageous crap...I'm in agreement with pianoman but I appreciate you thinking it through, Larry S. and, at least, you have some understanding of how firearms work.  I'm tired of the hyperbole...

[TwoSixFourWins]

Pianoman hit the nail on the head I think. Making tighter laws will only hurt the law abiding citizens. There are already enough ARs floating around that more laws wouldn't matter anyway. I'm not an AR owner but I also believe that knee jerk reactions to tragedies will not prevent them, only limit our freedoms more and more until we are left with a nanny state like England where pretty much anything you can hurt yourself or someone else with is illegal. As someone else mentioned the unstable individual bent on destruction will find a way. In my opinion vigilance and preparation are the key, not knee jerk emotional actions.

[deaner]

and I believed pretty much the same up until I read about one child soaking up 11 rounds at close range.



- Larry Simoneaux

                                 i fail to see how that is really any worse than a child taking one shotgun shell or bullet when the day is over.   rounds 2-10 probably didnt do anything to change the outcome.  he could have achieved much the same result with low capacity magazines, just being more frugal with his lead.  hope that doesnt sound like im totally desensitized, just making a logical point

[Curly]

“When someone persuades me that I’m wrong, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" - Variously attributed.

As an honest answer, I’ve been persuaded and have changed my mind on something.

Hopefully you will change your mind again once you realize you are wrong about wanting gun control.  You can't protect your granddaughter from all the crazies of the world; why not allow her to grow-up with the rights that you currently have so she can choose to protect herself and her family if she wishes?

[TangoU]

Thanks Larry S. and pianoman for thinking about your arguments before just posting outrageous crap.

 

The NRA suggested putting an officer in every school, I think that is a great idea.

Irrelevent to a bad guy intent on killing people at the school.  Mount a reflex scope to any weapon and you've reduced the necessary marksmanship skills, making the cop an easy target, especially while distracted by students or other faculty.  You need at least three if you want them to be effective, such that one can be on break and you still have two on duty. Bring our boys and girls home from the stan and use a very small portion of that fiscal savings to fund this. 

[Crunchy]

“When someone persuades me that I’m wrong, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" - Variously attributed.

As an honest answer, I’ve been persuaded and have changed my mind on something.

Hopefully you will change your mind again once you realize you are wrong about wanting gun control.  You can't protect your granddaughter from all the crazies of the world; why not allow her to grow-up with the rights that you currently have so she can choose to protect herself and her family if she wishes?

She will be able to protect herself when she grows up.  Just maybe not with an AK or AR or whatever ends up on a gun ban (if they have one).  Myself, I would rather defend somone breaking into my home with a shotgun filled with double 00 then an AR. As far as defending myself on the street, once again I pick a handgun over an AR or AK.  Not sure where an AK or AR would benefit anyone in protecting themselves??  Most SWAT team that do use ARs only do so because they are fully auto, otherwise there isnt much benefit to having one when doing tactical entries.