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Author Topic: bayliner any good  (Read 18850 times)

Offline Russ McDonald

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2013, 12:11:45 PM »
Take a look at Bayliner Owner Club http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/ if that is what you leaning towards.  I have a bayliner but nothing like any of you guys have had.  I have a 1988 Bayliner bass/ski boat with a 125 Force outboard on it.  Only had it 2 years now.  Had to starter on boat which was my fault.  Force get a bad rap, which was Chrysler at one time.  Some motors aren't that bad some are a piece.  I had a guy up the road who had the same exact boat one year older with a 120 Force and he said it was a piece.  Good luck in your search.
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Offline deadwoodbuck

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 02:33:00 PM »
thanks all for the great number of opinions and options to mull over.  i had a 19ft open bow with a 125 force that i never felt all that safe in...  so reaching into the retirement years close at hand...all this helps me to focus on alternatives to explore.  i know a boat is a hole in the water that you dump money into...which is why i am being very picky on this boat.  it seems to come down to the owners of the boat and what they did to and for it.  not sure i have the cashish for a brand new one...got to play the lotto.  but thanks again as i continue the search...that alaskan bulkhead sure is nice as i do want one that i can get out of the elements and drink hot coffee while the pots soak and the downriggers troll.
"How, given the canine teeth and close-set eyes that declare the human animal to be a predator, had we come up with the notion that oat bran is more natural to eat than chicken?"

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Offline h20hunter

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 02:34:10 PM »

Offline Happy Gilmore

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 03:32:56 PM »
here you go....plenty like this:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/3549015633.html

I've eyeballed that one a few times. Nice set up for fish/cruise/camp.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
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Offline h20hunter

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 03:33:55 PM »
Yep....I have see a bunch of boats like that on CL.....get a good one and you can be set....get a bad one....well then you are hosed.

Offline lokidog

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2013, 04:55:05 PM »
Hardtops rock!   :tup:  Not that I would know as my leaky tops are all canvas ones.   :chuckle:

Offline deadwoodbuck

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2013, 08:44:57 AM »
my preference is for a hardtop and bulkhead...waterproof and isolates you from the cold wet weather.  easier to keep warm.  i had a reinell rag top that was in good shape and spent the 4th of july weekend in the pouring rain that just seemed to seep through every possible pour of the canvas.  after listening to my first mates constant complaints...i swore my next boat would definitly be a hardtop with a bulkhead. of course my fault for thinking that the 4th would be anything but a downpour weekend as it always is.  i like to be out anytime of year not just on sunny days.  but with those fish on the dock...what rain and no first mate no worries.
"How, given the canine teeth and close-set eyes that declare the human animal to be a predator, had we come up with the notion that oat bran is more natural to eat than chicken?"

"Winners take responsibility...Losers blame others"

Offline Cylvertip

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2013, 10:06:45 AM »
Depends on the year, how it was maintained, and how it was powered. 

I can tell you this.  From the end of the 90's through at least the mid 2000's, bang for your buck on a lot of the Bayliner, Maxum, and Trophy product was better than the competition.  Because of the huge boom in boating from the mid to late 80's into the 90's, boats during those times from a lot of manufactures were shoved through the factories as fast as possible.  No one could build them fast enough to meet demand, and corners were cut.  Bayliners brand reputation took a huge hit because of it.  They weren't the only one doing it, but they were the biggest.  To bring the brand image back, construction practices, cosmetics and a lot of components on the product from at least 99 through 2007ish or better, had to be to par with the more premium brands just to be considered entry or mid level product.  So $ for $, you were getting a better deal on a Maxum than a comparable Cobalt or Searay, or on a Bayliner vs Searay, etc.  The brand name was tarnished, so to compete the boats had to be better and sell for less.  If you look at things like JD Power, you will see that, as someone else had stated, Bayliners and Maxums would get pummeled for their crappy motors, while Searay, Cobalt, or other "higher end" brands would get raving reviews.  This was complete crap, because they were the same damn Merc motors.  JD power will elevate a companies standing based on how much that company is willing to pay to look good - FYI.  And if you ponied up and overpaid high dollar for something,  are you going to complain about that product? or are you more likely to complain about the more reasonable priced product that is basically the same.  Remember this is the general public we are talking about here, so image can fog perception. Side by side: chevy vs cady, ford vs lincoln, toyota vs lexus, which one is more likely to get the pass on the same issue and which is going to get dinged, again when looking at this via public perception?

   I can say all of this because I was a Project Manager in Engineering & Product Development there from 99 through late 2004 on Runabouts.  I know what we put in to the product vs what our competition was doing. Things that they could get away with, there was no way we could do because of brand perception.  I know similar considerations were done on Trophy's and Cruisers.  We routinely brought in boats that had the highest ratings in the category and ran them.  Few, very few, compared apples to apples on ride quality compared to our models.  Some of the competition's boats didn't make it through the first 10 hours of what we ran as normal testing on all of our product before they were unusable.  Our boats would run the entire 50 to 100 hour test cycle ( or more)  and then be put into our employee boat use program for a few years.  After all that they would be gone through, the cosmetic's of 2 to three years of hard use would be fixed, and they would be processed through Olympic with full warranties.  Olympic paid about 25% of market value for those boats but would turn them as "Engineering" boats and sell them for 85-90% market value.   
There were even collaborations with Searay on product because they were a sister company and it was dictated form on high that we would share some components as there was some factory consolidation that may be possible ( Searay absorbed Bayliner {US MARINE}  when the economy took the big dump - Both companies and many more are owned by Brunswick)  The first foray into this was a 17ft runabout that we were to use this "great running" Searay hull for.  We felt however, that their hull's running characteristics were not all that great. by working with balancing the upper level components on our model, we ended up with a noticeably nicer running boat than theirs with their hull.

  Are Bayliners, Maxums, Trophy's perfect - hell no.  But compared to similar product, at least during the time frame I was there,  I know they were built as well if not better than the competition - apples to apples.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 11:43:10 AM by Cylvertip »
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Offline magnanimous_j

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2013, 10:10:47 AM »
Depends on the year, how it was maintained, and how it was powered. 

I can tell you this.  From the end of the 90's through at least the mid 2000's, bang for your buck on a lot of the Bayliner, Maxum, and Trophy product was better than the competition.  Because of the huge boom in boating from the late mid to late 80's into the 90's, boats during those times from a lot of manufactures were shoved through the factories as fast as possible.  No one could build them fast enough to meet demand, and corners were cut.  Bayliners brand reputation took a huge hit because of it.  They weren't the only one doing it, but they were the biggest.  To bring the brand image back, construction practices, cosmetics and a lot of components on the product from at least 99 through 2007ish or better, had to be to par with the more premium brands just to be considered entry or mid level product.  So $ for $, you were getting a better deal on a Maxum than a comparable Cobalt or Searay, or on a Bayliner vs Searay, etc.  The brand name was tarnished, so to compete the boats had to be better and sell for less.  If you look at things like JD Power, you will see that, as someone else had stated, Bayliners and Maxums would get pummeled for their crappy motors, while Searay, Cobalt, or other "higher end" brands would get raving reviews.  This was complete crap, because they were the same damn Merc motors.  JD power will elevate a companies standing based on how much that company is willing to pay to look good - FYI.  And if you ponied up and overpaid high dollar for something,  are you going to complain about that product? or are you more likely to complain about the more reasonable priced product that is basically the same.  Remember this is the general public we are talking about here, so image can fog perception. Side by side: chevy vs cady, ford vs lincoln, toyota vs lexus, which one is more likely to get the pass on the same issue and which is going to get dinged, again when looking at this via public perception?

   I can say all of this because I was a Project Manager in Engineering & Product Development there from 99 through late 2004 on Runabouts.  I know what we put in to the product vs what our competition was doing. Things that they could get away with, there was no way we could do because of brand perception.  I know similar considerations were done on Trophy's and Cruisers.  We routinely brought in boats that had the highest ratings in the category and ran them.  Few, very few, compared apples to apples on ride quality compared to our models.  Some of the competition's boats didn't make it through the first 10 hours of what we ran as normal testing on all of our product before they were unusable.  Our boats would run the entire 50 to 100 hour test cycle ( or more)  and then be put into our employee boat use program for a few years.  After all that they would be gone through, the cosmetic's of 2 to three years of hard use would be fixed, and they would be processed through Olympic with full warranties.  Olympic paid about 25% of market value for those boats but would turn them as "Engineering" boats and sell them for 85-90% market value.   
There were even collaborations with Searay on product because they were a sister company and it was dictated form on high that we would share some components as there was some factory consolidation that may be possible ( Searay absorbed Bayliner {US MARINE}  when the economy took the big dump - Both companies and many more are owned by Brunswick)  The first foray into this was a 17ft runabout that we were to use this "great running" Searay hull for.  We felt however, that their hull's running characteristics were not all that great. by working with balancing the upper level components on our model, we ended up with a noticeably nicer running boat than theirs with their hull.

  Are Bayliners, Maxums, Trophy's perfect - hell no.  But compared to similar product, at least during the time frame I was there,  I know they were built as well if not better than the competition - apples to apples.

What years of Bayliner would you recommend?

Offline Heredoggydoggy

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2013, 10:22:23 AM »
  Remember this is the general public we are talking about here, so image can fog perception. Side by side: chevy vs cady, ford vs lincoln, toyota vs lexus, which one is more likely to get the pass on the same issue and which is going to get dinged, again when looking at this via public perception?

   

 :yeah:  I remember when Toyota first started importing pickups to the US.  They had a row of spot welds around the wheel wells of the truck beds that they just painted over.  They didn't even make an attempt to fill them in.  I said to myself then:  "Boy, if an American manufacturer did that, nobody would buy one."  Yet those Toyotas were selling like hotcakes!  :dunno:
If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

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Offline JohnVH

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 10:38:05 AM »
I had an 83-84 20' cuddy, I/O Volvo 4 banger, loved that boat, ran like a top, sipped fuel, only cruised at 25mph, but handled the water awesome. I would buy another. Not a ton of room for a dedicated fishing boat though, ripped the carpet out and lined the inside myself and put new seats in.
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Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 10:53:47 AM »
I have a 2005 Bayliner 175, 135hp Merc inboard and Shorelander trailer.  It is great for what it is, as a Columbia River runabout for 3-season family fun.  It was affordable, economical on fuel (>5mpg), and cruises comfortably at up to 45 mph.  I like the Chevy comparison, I've called it the Big Mac of boats.  It's about $30k short of the boat I'd choose with more resources, but we are happy to have a boat.  I think it is a good value for what we have into it, including repairs.

Like a Big Mac, it fills a need at a very low cost compared to better options.
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline Cylvertip

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2013, 12:37:57 PM »
That 175 was one of the big projects I did - lots of capability for a 17'er, especially at the price. We really dialed it in watching every penny that went into it.  No corners were cut, but we looked at everything with a fine tooth comb to hit the price point we wanted.   That was the "why buy used?" boat.  It was originally to sell for $9995 boat, motor, and trailer, but the dealers really jacked up the price and made a killing on them though - F'ing Olympic :bash:. That's the Searay hull boat.  There was a Maxum 180 on the same hull too.
It was all top secret at the time - cause it was originally build exclusively in Reynosa Mexico, just across the border from McCallen Tx.   The area down there had a very skilled work force that was used to working in the electronics industry, along with I think CAT, VW, and some other big names.  They had great quality because of it.  There were a lot of US folks working in the plant then too.  We kept it all under wraps up until we had them ready to ship inventory to dealers.  Irvin Jacobs of Genmar ( Brunswick Boat Groups big rival in Pleasure boats at the time - he was the President - and a d-bag - each had like 20 to 30 or more brands under their umbrella) was pissed when we launched it.  None of us were real happy about production efforts happening in Mexico, but at the time it did not hamper anything that was happening state side - we increased overall sales so everyone was running at pretty much capacity and then some.  When the econ tanked, all bets were off though.  Like I said, Searay absorbed the product line into their plants except for Reynosa - it is still running with Bayliner and Searay product coming out of it now.

Irwin Jacobs came up with the FLW bass tour - It is pretty much all Ranger boats - Take a wild guess who owned ranger boats.  There are a couple of other brands now, but they are all affiliated.  It's a big tournament group and Walmart is right there in the middle of it, but it is not open to just anyone that wants to try - you don't own one of their brands, you ain't in.  It would be like NASCAR only allowing use of a specific car brand - Like government motors products, and nothing else.  Or if you did compete with another brand, and you won, you were only eligible to take a much smaller portion of the purse. 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 09:38:43 AM by Cylvertip »
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Offline Cylvertip

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2013, 12:58:29 PM »

[/quote] What years of Bayliner would you recommend?
[/quote]

  I know probably starting in 2000 or 2001, so the 2001  or 2002 models, they have xcel 40 year pressure treated plywood though out.  Before that all the wood was resin coated, so it was protected, but even better after that.  I know the Trophys went to fiberglass stringers in some of their models not too long after, but that was for more of a perception thing and possibly weight savings, than strength and durability -which are about the same after installation .
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 07:40:21 PM by Cylvertip »
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Offline deadwoodbuck

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Re: bayliner any good
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2013, 09:05:08 AM »
great info Cylvertip...i'll be looking for a 2000+ era bayliner  :tup:
"How, given the canine teeth and close-set eyes that declare the human animal to be a predator, had we come up with the notion that oat bran is more natural to eat than chicken?"

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