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Not to mention that the best dogs from the best breeds typically don't get advertised and the dogs go to select owners. If you can get in the door with those types of breeding, you greatly enhance your chances of getting a top end dog.
Third, I've never heard of "tea cup labs" but 90 lbs labs are NOT ideal for upland hunting. 45-60 lbs is better suited to that and a number of breeders have switched to that. There is a difference between lab dwarfism (which can be tested for) and a small performance lab.
Quote from: AspenBud on February 13, 2013, 01:10:19 PMThird, I've never heard of "tea cup labs" but 90 lbs labs are NOT ideal for upland hunting. 45-60 lbs is better suited to that and a number of breeders have switched to that. There is a difference between lab dwarfism (which can be tested for) and a small performance lab.He's advertising "Tea Cup Labs" that he claims "nobody else has" and their maximum weight will be 25 pounds. I realize 90 pound labs are not ideal for upland hunting but I'm not sure what the ideal task/purpose of a 25 pound lab is. IMO his Tea Cup Labs are nothing but a gimmic and advertising and breeding for them tells me that his breeding program is not speaking for itself and/or producing pups like that of a quality breeder that sells pups or has a wait list before the breeding even occurs. He's trying to make a buck by creating the next new designer dog from what I can tell...not doing what is right for the breed.
Ok, Happy but not everyone who is getting a pup has the "in" to find those breeders, so they get them from other (advertised) breeders.
Quote from: wahunter21 on February 13, 2013, 08:43:06 PMOk, Happy but not everyone who is getting a pup has the "in" to find those breeders, so they get them from other (advertised) breeders.Spend time asking around. Most breeders are always happy to give referrals. Problem come when people decide they want a pup and go out and buy from the first guy who has some advertised. Waiting 6 months or being on a waiting list usually provides good results.
Thanks for the advice happy and others. If we decide to get another pup I will do more research and take the time to find. A responsible breeder.
I don't really know anything about WALABS but I have been considering a new pup in the next 6 months or so. I went to his website a couple weeks ago and as soon as I saw the advertisement for his "Tea Cup Labs" I about threw up and vowed to never visit the site again (on purpose anyway).
My cut and paste from Word didn't work. Bear with my edits. This is from WALABS Website. My comments will be in bold italic and underlined- I hope this helps some folks understand why asking questions and getting with educated dog folks is important no matter what you are paying for a new dog. WALABS offers the following guarantee to the original buyer only.We guarantee the puppy to be free of PRA (progressive retinal atrophy) for up to 1 year of age. PRA usually onsets later in a dogs’ life, around 4 if I remember correctly. If you suspect your puppy has PRA, it must be verified by a certified Canine Ophthalmologist with CERF. PRA is not detected via CERF. PRA is a genetic disease and is a DNA test. CERF is simply a viewing of the dogs retina looking for cataracts. Completely different. CERF should be done regularly before each breeding. Most good breeders have their dogs CERF'd once a year. We guarantee the puppy to be free of hip dysplasia and elbow dysplasia for up to 25 months of age. You can only do pre-lim hip (OFA) prior to 24 months of age. If your veterinarian suspects a dysplasia problem, the x-ray showing this condition must be verifiedby the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals). This x-ray must be done before 25 months of age. OFA cannot be tested until the dog is 24 months of age. Results can take a few months. There is NO WAY you can get an OFA back before this limit on his contract would expire. If any of these conditions are verified, We the breeder has the option of either refunding the entire purchase price,or replacing the dog with a puppy of comparable breeding when available. The first puppy will have to be returned to WALABS with its AKC paperwork. In any case, all veterinary, diagnostic, return, and replacement costs will be the owner's responsibility. You spend all the money to do the tests to prove the problem. He’s banking that you will probably really like the dog, most people do after two years and won’t return it. He’ll look the other way at this point and say, return the dog. If you do return it, you’ll be on some distant waiting list. Also likely, you’ll get another pup from the same crap unhealthy breeding. You’ll get to do the same thing all over again. These guarantees are dependent upon demonstration that the puppy has received adequate care and nutrition.Anything that affects the development or well-being of the puppy, such as abuse, neglect,trauma (i.e. jumping in the air for frisbees), or being used for breeding will void these guarantees. This statement is a completely open ended “catch all” to blame you for pretty much letting the dog be a dog. “oh, you play catch with your dog? Oh, you didn’t go to the vet three times a month?” They’ll say anything, make up anything to make the problem your fault. The following puppies will NOT carry ANY kind of guarantee. Shipped puppies, puppies NOT bred through us. EA Rescue labs, I have no idea what this means. Are they getting dogs from the pound and re-selling them? Shipped puppies?? What does shipping have to do with hip dysplasia? This is the type of disclaimer that when you read it, you don’t walk away, you run like hell!
It is uncommon for someone to have bred enough pups to have 500 families and they don't understand the tests they are mentioning in their guarantee.
I just hope they read this and try to better understand breeding healthy pups. Contacting the akc will do nothing. The akc is not a breed police. The akc is simply a breed registry and has nothing to do with monitoring health standards. Buying an akc registered dog means Nothing! Buying a dog from a breeder who knows and understands what health testing means and the importance of it means everything. Many fine dogs who have excellent breeding and health clearances are never registered. Testing parents before breeding is much more important than any akc pedigree. With that being said, those who spend a little extra making sure the parents are sound animals before breeding will almost always be those whom properly register the dogs. It isn't about being snooty or high brow, it's about loving animals and wanting the breeds to live long healthy lives and allow the owners to enjoy their companions for the longest time possible
the environment of a puppy farm is putrid!
Granted dogs don't cost as much, but if your a halfway decent person the emotional investment in dog is at least tenfold that of a car.
Quote from: Happy Gilmore on February 15, 2013, 10:08:58 AMMy cut and paste from Word didn't work. Bear with my edits. This is from WALABS Website. My comments will be in bold italic and underlined- I hope this helps some folks understand why asking questions and getting with educated dog folks is important no matter what you are paying for a new dog. WALABS offers the following guarantee to the original buyer only.We guarantee the puppy to be free of PRA (progressive retinal atrophy) for up to 1 year of age. PRA usually onsets later in a dogs’ life, around 4 if I remember correctly. If you suspect your puppy has PRA, it must be verified by a certified Canine Ophthalmologist with CERF. PRA is not detected via CERF. PRA is a genetic disease and is a DNA test. CERF is simply a viewing of the dogs retina looking for cataracts. Completely different. CERF should be done regularly before each breeding. Most good breeders have their dogs CERF'd once a year. We guarantee the puppy to be free of hip dysplasia and elbow dysplasia for up to 25 months of age. You can only do pre-lim hip (OFA) prior to 24 months of age. If your veterinarian suspects a dysplasia problem, the x-ray showing this condition must be verifiedby the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals). This x-ray must be done before 25 months of age. OFA cannot be tested until the dog is 24 months of age. Results can take a few months. There is NO WAY you can get an OFA back before this limit on his contract would expire. If any of these conditions are verified, We the breeder has the option of either refunding the entire purchase price,or replacing the dog with a puppy of comparable breeding when available. The first puppy will have to be returned to WALABS with its AKC paperwork. In any case, all veterinary, diagnostic, return, and replacement costs will be the owner's responsibility. You spend all the money to do the tests to prove the problem. He’s banking that you will probably really like the dog, most people do after two years and won’t return it. He’ll look the other way at this point and say, return the dog. If you do return it, you’ll be on some distant waiting list. Also likely, you’ll get another pup from the same crap unhealthy breeding. You’ll get to do the same thing all over again. These guarantees are dependent upon demonstration that the puppy has received adequate care and nutrition.Anything that affects the development or well-being of the puppy, such as abuse, neglect,trauma (i.e. jumping in the air for frisbees), or being used for breeding will void these guarantees. This statement is a completely open ended “catch all” to blame you for pretty much letting the dog be a dog. “oh, you play catch with your dog? Oh, you didn’t go to the vet three times a month?” They’ll say anything, make up anything to make the problem your fault. The following puppies will NOT carry ANY kind of guarantee. Shipped puppies, puppies NOT bred through us. EA Rescue labs, I have no idea what this means. Are they getting dogs from the pound and re-selling them? Shipped puppies?? What does shipping have to do with hip dysplasia? This is the type of disclaimer that when you read it, you don’t walk away, you run like hell! I'm worried about Jim's interpretation of how genetic testing works and the promises made in his guarantee. I bolded and highlighted my comments. Hopefully, he's learned something and has done some research on the differences between PRA, CERF and OFA timelines. This taken straight off his website shows a serious lack of comprehension and understanding of health testing. As far as miniature labs? If I ever see anyone intentionally breeding dwarf labs, I'll call them an idiot to their face. Dwarfism(not miniature) is a serious genetic defect and should never be promoted. Many will argue breeding two chocolate dilute genes to produce a silver is also a bad practice although, I'm not a study on the subject so, I'll refrain from commenting about "designer breeds" such as silver labs and Labradoodle mixes sold for big bucks because of trendiness.
I am appauled by seeing this post and thread about Walabs Kennel. I purchased my fox red from walabs in dec 2011, we drove from Sacramento CA to get him. He has always been very healthy. Yes he had worms... so what?? a good vet will tell you that it is NORMAL, a couple of deworming once they are away from the litter mates and problem solved..... Jim Young of Walabs, loves his dogs and puppies and takes care of them very well; he is always here to answer questions. My dog Niner is a great family dog and a hunter. He hunts ducks very well, with barely any training. Walabs Kennel is no puppy mill.. That's non sense. Dogs have large pens, everything can be viewed on the cameras. I'm getting my second walab next weekend. I've seen him grow up on the cameras for past 7 weeks. Check out Facebook and the other families with more than 1 lab... Plus it's not internet sales... Yes he has a website, who doesn't? it's 2013. Bad mouthing is easy. but no one realizes the impact you are having on people by slandering..... I stand by WALABS Kennel at 200% and recommend his labs to anyone. Specially Hunters.
