First time dog buyer help

[Atroxus]

I was just reading the thread started here...http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,118390.0.html and it got me thinking, because I am looking to buy a bird dog in the next year or two and have never bought a dog before. Maybe we could work together to build a check list that we can get stickied, of things to look for when shopping for a dog. For example what things to look for, and/or stay away from in a breeder. Good and bad things to look for when touring a kennel. (I assume reputable kennels allow tours by prospective buyers?) What health concerns to be aware of for different breeds of dogs that can be tested for before purchase. I am guessing the health issues vary by breed, so maybe separate checklists for each of the most common breeds of bird dogs. What do all of you bird dog experts think? Good idea, or no? 

[thatkidwho]

I think its not a bad idea. I've always looked for a health guarantee or screening paperwork. I don't know much or care about pedigree or AKC registertion. I'm not looking for a show dog, I'm looking for working dog. I think there arw some breeders here. I hope they will chime in.

[Goldeneye]

A site Sponsor on here who's screen name is Worn Ireland Farms (changed his screen name) is a Labrador breeder.  He has sold to members on this site including myself.  He is really careful about the quality of pups produced at his farm.  Anyways, hopefully he'll chime in on this thread.

Here is his website:  http://www.irelandfarms.com/home.php

[AspenBud]

Labs - Look at the health certificates of the parents (OFA Hips, Elbows, EIC, CNM). If they aren't good, run away. Look for titles (hunt tests and/or field trials) in the lineage.

Since I don't own labs and never have I'll stop there. But you would be well advised to look for those.

[ducksdogsdownriggers]

Here are some things that are on the top of my list (aside from the obvious health certs), in no particular order:
1.  I want to see the parents in action, as in HUNT, not field trial, not Hunt Test.  Titles are nice, but I want to see the real thing.
2.  I want to see the parents in a family setting, and around kids.
3.  I want a dog breeder who rarely has started dogs for sale (many started dogs are pups that don't sell, nothing wrong with that, but I want a breeder who has more demand than supply)
4.  I want the OK to drop in on the kennel anytime, unannounced
5.  If possible, I'd like to know about the longevity of the grandparents, great, etc...

Having said that, for a retriever, I'd recommend Ryan and Long Hollow Retrieves in Ellensburg.    

[ghosthunter]

A site Sponsor on here who's screen name is Worn Ireland Farms (changed his screen name) is a Labrador breeder.  He has sold to members on this site including myself.  He is really careful about the quality of pups produced at his farm.  Anyways, hopefully he'll chime in on this thread.

Here is his website:  http://www.irelandfarms.com/home.php

I will 2nd this. My 2nd dog came from Ireland Farms and you will not find a easier guy to work with. Some breeders are from another another planet. Warren was great through the whole process. My lab pup learns most things in 10 minutes or less. She delivers right to hand every time.

[Ireland Farms]

It's a good idea to simplify things. There is a lot of research available online as well. One easy way to check on OFA clearances is to just go to www.offa.org and enter the parents name. That will give you the info as well as show you the offspring of that dog. I allow visitors. I think anyone that doesn't is a red flag right there....seeing the parents in action hunting is nice, but if they don't have a pedigree to back it up, or references from past pups, (thanks Goldeneye and Ghosthunter), you're not necessarily getting what you see. Also, Any reputable breeder will back of their dogs with a 26 month hip guarantee. A 24 month one doesn't help at all. You can't get the dog OFA'd until they're 24 months....ask a lot of questions. Both sides need to make sure the pups a good fit, so expect questions back as well. I'm fairly easy to work with. I don't make clients fill out a questionnaire. I figure they're going to tell me what I want to hear, so why waste anyone's time?

I hope I answered some of your questions. Good luck on finding the perfect bird dog!

[Blackjaw]

Not in any particular order. 1. Health checks specific to the breed. 2. A few MH, AFC, FC, NFC, NAFC titles not to far back in the pedigree. 3. See how the parents hunt if possible.

[jrebel]

I got my dog from Whiskeydrinker on here and he pm'd me they were going to breed again.   If you are enterested in WHP you should contact him....they are great dogs. 

[AspenBud]

1.  I want to see the parents in action, as in HUNT, not field trial, not Hunt Test.  Titles are nice, but I want to see the real thing.

At the risk of derailing this a little...

Don't discount field trial and/or hunt test awards. Dogs that get those awards are more often than not also hunted. While I agree that competition or testing to a standard is not entirely like hunting it does prove that a dog is capable of being trained to a certain level of competency doing its job. Particularly with pointing dog field trials, it also shows that a dog has the physical ability to hunt under extremes including the physical demands required in an all day hunt. ie - Dogs with dysplastic hips generally don't win championships. Not every dog can work in all types of weather. Not every dog can scent well in good weather conditions and bad.

It's also often hard to hunt over both the sire and dam of a litter, especially if you're looking at a dog coming from a litter where AI is used with semen from a dog living on the other side of the country.

A lot of guys won't allow hunting over their dogs with just anybody either. Not everyone out there is 100% reliable with a gun around dogs. The last thing they need is some potential buyer shooting their champion canine.

Field trial and hunt test results are often your best measure of a litter's ability to hunt and be trained when selecting a litter to buy from when faced with the above.

[Stilly bay]

1.  I want to see the parents in action, as in HUNT, not field trial, not Hunt Test.  Titles are nice, but I want to see the real thing.
2.  I want to see the parents in a family setting, and around kids.
3.  I want a dog breeder who rarely has started dogs for sale (many started dogs are pups that don't sell, nothing wrong with that, but I want a breeder who has more demand than supply)


Having said that, for a retriever, I'd recommend Ryan and Long Hollow Retrieves in Ellensburg.   

1. there are plenty of dogs whose owner claim that they can "hunt" that aren't worth the cost of  their food. field trial and hunt test titles not only prove the dog can hunt, but can hunt well with manners and obedience.
however one should pay attention to which titles the dogs have - if the titles only go as far as junior hunter JH, don't bother most pups can blunder through a test to get a JH. if they go to Senior hunter or master hunter (SH or MH) then you have something much better to work with, plus it shows the breeder is dedicated to proving how good his dogs are by getting the titles that back them up.
also be leery of bench titles, Happy's dog's I would imagine have a good mix of bench AND field titles and there is nothing wrong with that.
also don't pay too much attention to titles past the mother and father of the pup.

3. STARTED DOGS, are often kept by the breeder because they wanted to take the dog to the next level as a  field trial and hunt test prospect. otherwise why invest the time and energy into a started dog? one could say the breeder might have seen something extra in a particular pup, after all the breeder has a better idea about how his dogs will turn out than you ever will.
lets say that a breeder with lots of started pups only has them because he had leftovers, they are probably better trained than most amateurs could accomplish and well worth the investment.
if your buying the puppy for the parents lineage and titles after you have done the research it really shouldn't matter, and unless your hell bent on a pup a started dog might be a fantastic idea.
and this all ties into  buying a pup, after you do the research and find a litter ask the breeder which pup he would keep, and choose that one

and as far as long hollow goes.... damn fine dogs, my male lab is from them and has done nothing but impress me. great waterfowl dog, outstanding house dog, and one hell of a pheasant flusher

[Stilly bay]

one more thing I might ad, you should also tell your wife that your going to get the breed of dog YOU WANT, arbitrary- nonsensical size restrictions be damned... and that is just the way it is, coz daddy says so.

[AspenBud]

One more comment on started dogs to add to what Stilly bay has to say...

You can't evaluate prospects at 8 weeks of age. Proper evaluation takes several dogs going through the same training process. Some will get cut early on, some later. The washouts aren't necessarily bad hunting dogs. Just dogs that didn't meet the requirements of the breeder. It's a very rare dog that is champion material.

[Happy Gilmore]

Testing and health clearances? That's silly talk around here

[BIGINNER]

this thread CAN be very useful,  if we stick to FACTS, and suggest what people should look for in health certification, how the kennel is run,   stuff that would affect EVERY puppy purchase.
a lot of the other stuff is just opinion, like if parents are champions, or champion bread, does not necessarily give you a good pup.  and someone's experience with a certain breed can be a total different experience for me with that exact breed. 

I can see this thread turning from helping someone pick a first dog, to I like this breeder and this breeder is better because MY dog came from there..

just my