Free: Contests & Raffles.
A site Sponsor on here who's screen name is Worn Ireland Farms (changed his screen name) is a Labrador breeder. He has sold to members on this site including myself. He is really careful about the quality of pups produced at his farm. Anyways, hopefully he'll chime in on this thread.Here is his website: http://www.irelandfarms.com/home.php
1. I want to see the parents in action, as in HUNT, not field trial, not Hunt Test. Titles are nice, but I want to see the real thing.
1. I want to see the parents in action, as in HUNT, not field trial, not Hunt Test. Titles are nice, but I want to see the real thing.2. I want to see the parents in a family setting, and around kids.3. I want a dog breeder who rarely has started dogs for sale (many started dogs are pups that don't sell, nothing wrong with that, but I want a breeder who has more demand than supply)Having said that, for a retriever, I'd recommend Ryan and Long Hollow Retrieves in Ellensburg.
one more thing I might ad, you should also tell your wife that your going to get the breed of dog YOU WANT, arbitrary- nonsensical size restrictions be damned... and that is just the way it is, coz daddy says so.
Testing and health clearances? That's silly talk around here
Champions and SH or MH in the pedigree doesn't guarantee anything. It just stacks the odds of getting a good dog heavily in your favor.Why settle for less when you will likely have to feed the animal for 10+ years?
I can see this thread turning from helping someone pick a first dog, to I like this breeder and this breeder is better because MY dog came from there..
Just remembered something. Even with a raft of championships and clearances it pays to ask around about various lines of dogs. For example, and at the risk of ruffling feathers, a lot of guys will tell you that *censored*Tonk Pointers have a tendency to die from cancer. How true that is can be debated, but little tidbits like that are something to look out for and dig deeper in since it won't pop up in any health checks and using my example above, *censored*Tonk dogs have done their share of winning.
Quote from: AspenBud on February 15, 2013, 10:38:03 AMJust remembered something. Even with a raft of championships and clearances it pays to ask around about various lines of dogs. For example, and at the risk of ruffling feathers, a lot of guys will tell you that *censored*Tonk Pointers have a tendency to die from cancer. How true that is can be debated, but little tidbits like that are something to look out for and dig deeper in since it won't pop up in any health checks and using my example above, *censored*Tonk dogs have done their share of winning.People who've been around for a spell and breed enough start to see tendencies. Some point them out and some look the other way. There are folks i know who believe cancer runs in a couple lines of labs. Some feel a line of Chocolates have more health problems? Some say it isn't true, others say it is? Who do you believe? Some people's family genetics predisposition them for heart problems or other diseases like colon cancer. Why this wouldn't be true with animal genetics I don't know?
... just filling in the gaps from another thread...BIRDS! you need birds to make a bird dog. you will need birds through most stages of a young dogs life so you better figure out where you are going to get a steady supply well before you go puppy shopping.pigeons are great because they don't smell like a gamebird so you if screw up the dog won't associate your screw up with real birds.they are easy to raise and easy to catch. sometimes they are very hard to buy. generally pigeon fanciers will all have more birds than they need in the spring months when the pigeons are breeding, after you hit june they are much harder to buy at a reasonable price and many pigeon fanciers don't want to sell to bird dog people.its much easier and much cheaper to build a small pigeon loft for around $200 bucks and keep a dozen pigeons year 'round than it is to travel all over hill and dale looking for people selling training birds.
this thread CAN be very useful, if we stick to FACTS, and suggest what people should look for in health certification, how the kennel is run, stuff that would affect EVERY puppy purchase.a lot of the other stuff is just opinion, like if parents are champions, or champion bread, does not necessarily give you a good pup. and someone's experience with a certain breed can be a total different experience for me with that exact breed. I can see this thread turning from helping someone pick a first dog, to I like this breeder and this breeder is better because MY dog came from there..just my
Quote from: BIGINNER on February 14, 2013, 01:58:03 PMthis thread CAN be very useful, if we stick to FACTS, and suggest what people should look for in health certification, how the kennel is run, stuff that would affect EVERY puppy purchase.a lot of the other stuff is just opinion, like if parents are champions, or champion bread, does not necessarily give you a good pup. and someone's experience with a certain breed can be a total different experience for me with that exact breed. I can see this thread turning from helping someone pick a first dog, to I like this breeder and this breeder is better because MY dog came from there..just my I agree to a point, there should be a seperate thread for "recommened breeders".I believe you analogy is a bit off however. A breeder providing health clearances garrantees no more than work titles. Both of the scew the odds in your favor. However, pups whos sire and dam have NFC or AFC in their name may not be what the average hunter wants. Dogs that run the upper ends of the dog games are often high power dogs who have a very high energy level and need to leave the line like they are shot out of a cannon in order to be competative. These dogs often require more pressure and time to train than the average hunter is willing to put in. Test titles however, indicate that the parents were trainable. Many of these dogs may well have Field trial lines, but may have not had enough fire in themselves to compete at the upper levels. Still excellent dogs, and maybe more suited to the dog a hunter can work with.All based on empirical observation. I'm not a breeder and don't intend to get into that game. God bless those who do it right.
The 3rd route that has not been discussed is adopting a dog. I know that this isn't what the thread is all about, but with today's economy some good dogs are given up for little or nothing... I think adoption may be an easier way to asses because they are usually full grown... Neither of my hunting dogs have been adopted but i have had adopted dogs.
Quote from: JJD on February 18, 2013, 02:27:40 PMQuote from: BIGINNER on February 14, 2013, 01:58:03 PMthis thread CAN be very useful, if we stick to FACTS, and suggest what people should look for in health certification, how the kennel is run, stuff that would affect EVERY puppy purchase.a lot of the other stuff is just opinion, like if parents are champions, or champion bread, does not necessarily give you a good pup. and someone's experience with a certain breed can be a total different experience for me with that exact breed. I can see this thread turning from helping someone pick a first dog, to I like this breeder and this breeder is better because MY dog came from there..just my I agree to a point, there should be a seperate thread for "recommened breeders".I believe you analogy is a bit off however. A breeder providing health clearances garrantees no more than work titles. Both of the scew the odds in your favor. However, pups whos sire and dam have NFC or AFC in their name may not be what the average hunter wants. Dogs that run the upper ends of the dog games are often high power dogs who have a very high energy level and need to leave the line like they are shot out of a cannon in order to be competative. These dogs often require more pressure and time to train than the average hunter is willing to put in. Test titles however, indicate that the parents were trainable. Many of these dogs may well have Field trial lines, but may have not had enough fire in themselves to compete at the upper levels. Still excellent dogs, and maybe more suited to the dog a hunter can work with.All based on empirical observation. I'm not a breeder and don't intend to get into that game. God bless those who do it right. So, What you are saying is that testing the dam and the sire for PRA(knowing their results) will NOT guarantee that the pups won't go blind? (I'm setting you up if you can't tell) If you are saying a PRA result is of equal importance as a agility title I'll have to politely disagree with you. Having both Sire and Dam (in breeds with histories of dysplasia such as Labs) showing good results doesn't mean anything?
There have been two or three cases of a mutation in labs and over how many registered per year? I think you'd be better off buying a PRA affected dog and hoping that it didn't go blind. What you are suggesting is that OFA's have NOT reduced the amount of dysplastic dogs and breeders using knowledge of PRA genetic testing has not almost completely clipped the PRA blindness problem nearly completely out of the picture.
