Native Elk - Increased Crop Damage

[Special T]

so we have people blaming farmers for NOT allowing hunters AND allowing too many!  Guess he can't win! I guess i also know why more farmers don't allow the general public to hunt thier land!  the logic is stupid! 

[Landowner]

These are what we're talking about, right? 

One of my favorites sights in June when we put the crop eating ba#**tds on the constant run....at times the gun barrels get to glowing.....

[Practical Approach]

so we have people blaming farmers for NOT allowing hunters AND allowing too many!  Guess he can't win! I guess i also know why more farmers don't allow the general public to hunt thier land!  the logic is stupid! 

You can let the general public to hunt you land.  No problem there.  Just don't expect to not make the news if you allow  a bunchload of hunters on your land to surround a herd and unethically fling arrows into a herd.  That wasn't a hunt of any sort.  That was an embarrassment. I think farmers should have more options than just a damage hunt situation. 

[Tbar]

Well part of the problem is WDFW making the season a MH only hunt. Instead of viewing that particular unit as a "damage hunt" and not you typical hike in the mts hunt is part of the problem. This issue stems from a couple of instances where PEOPLE didn't like seeing animals shot or injured. This "problem" stems more from those who are detached from reality and think steak come from the store wrapped in cylophane. 

This is an attempt to sugar coat an incident that gave all Hunters in this state a black eye. I am not detached from reality nor do I get much meat from the store. I have been a part of a lot of hunts and never seen anything like this. That incident by itself ended the"damage"hunt.
As for Mr Johnson I have nothing bad to say, he is a landowner that wants to find solutions.  Mr Johnson is very widely respected.

[Special T]

Well part of the problem is WDFW making the season a MH only hunt. Instead of viewing that particular unit as a "damage hunt" and not you typical hike in the mts hunt is part of the problem. This issue stems from a couple of instances where PEOPLE didn't like seeing animals shot or injured. This "problem" stems more from those who are detached from reality and think steak come from the store wrapped in cylophane. 

This is an attempt to sugar coat an incident that gave all Hunters in this state a black eye. I am not detached from reality nor do I get much meat from the store. I have been a part of a lot of hunts and never seen anything like this. That incident by itself ended the"damage"hunt.
As for Mr Johnson I have nothing bad to say, he is a landowner that wants to find solutions.  Mr Johnson is very widely respected.

I'm glad we agree on some thing!

[Practical Approach]

These are what we're talking about, right? 

One of my favorites sights in June when we put the crop eating ba#**tds on the constant run....at times the gun barrels get to glowing.....

Really, you are proud of this?  Put up a fence  on your property rather than harrassing the publics resource.   Oh yeah and quit asking me to pay taxes to the state for your crop damage because you won't take responsiblilty for protecting your crops. 

[Tbar]

Well part of the problem is WDFW making the season a MH only hunt. Instead of viewing that particular unit as a "damage hunt" and not you typical hike in the mts hunt is part of the problem. This issue stems from a couple of instances where PEOPLE didn't like seeing animals shot or injured. This "problem" stems more from those who are detached from reality and think steak come from the store wrapped in cylophane. 

This is an attempt to sugar coat an incident that gave all Hunters in this state a black eye. I am not detached from reality nor do I get much meat from the store. I have been a part of a lot of hunts and never seen anything like this. That incident by itself ended the"damage"hunt.
As for Mr Johnson I have nothing bad to say, he is a landowner that wants to find solutions.  Mr Johnson is very widely respected.

I'm glad we agree on some thing!

And you don't agree that you and your group of archers ended the damage hunt that day?  There was always complaints but I don't think the hunt itself was ever in jeopardy before that day.

[Special T]

I was not there. It was actually farmer Johnson that ended the hunt by telling the WDFW that he was gona drive through the herd...
NOTHING was done illegal that day. The REASON why it ended the general hunt that day was because it was in public view.

Was it not changed from a Muzzy hunt to an archery hunt because of a similar situation?(I do not have info on the Muzzy hunt that ended it for muzzy hunters.)

Since this is not the first time that fuzzy sensibilities have been offended i would say it is the general public that has caused the problem not the hunters. 

I think the problem is one of perception. (WDFW strangely agrees with me) I blame the public, some hunters and the WDFW blame the hunters.

[Tbar]

Illegal or not it's more than perception. It comes down to ethics, I have witnessed multiple damage hunts take place and none have played out close to that one. I apologize for referring to you as one of the Hunters. The timing couldn't have been worse for a debacle like that on so many levels. I.e. the eagle festival...That incident brought into question everything from management strategies to the effectiveness of archery equipment (in the court of public opinion). That incident was just plain sickening, and I don't see how you can defend it as anything else. There are active damage hunts going on right now and if any played out in a similar manner, regardless of it's in the public eye, should be stopped. That said I don't think any will play out like that one.

[h2ofowlr]

Doesn't help when you have DFW officer parked on the road, watching cars come to a stop and get out and take pictures.  I would have flagged those guys to keep going or issued them tickets.  The elk could have gone out had the entire rd lined up with spectators and kept bouncing the animals back into the hunters.  Definately not the smartest move on their part.  Kudos to the hunters that stayed back in the trees out of the specticle.

Muzzy group had their own issues, from firing from the road, shooting them next to peoples property, homes and guys driving up and down HWY 20 keeping them from crossing to the N of 20.  Several instances where people received calls that the elk were in so and so's pasture and everyone would come racing up and the firing line lit them up.

Posible solution would be to make a north side draw and a south side only draw.  Allow 10-15 tags and give them land owner access to these spots and have a site down meeting with the guys and tell them what they can and can't do with the tags.  If they violate those rules, they loose the tag or restrictions on next years hunting tags.
-OR-
Give additional land owner tags.  Give the problem location multiple tags, let them hand them out, or sell them to the highest bidder and those funds would help pay for repair costs.

[Tbar]

Doesn't help when you have DFW officer parked on the road, watching cars come to a stop and get out and take pictures.  I would have flagged those guys to keep going or issued them tickets.  The elk could have gone out had the entire rd lined up with spectators and kept bouncing the animals back into the hunters.  Definately not the smartest move on their part.  Kudos to the hunters that stayed back in the trees out of the specticle.

Muzzy group had their own issues, from firing from the road, shooting them next to peoples property, homes and guys driving up and down HWY 20 keeping them from crossing to the N of 20.  Several instances where people received calls that the elk were in so and so's pasture and everyone would come racing up and the firing line lit them up.

Posible solution would be to make a north side draw and a south side only draw.  Allow 10-15 tags and give them land owner access to these spots and have a site down meeting with the guys and tell them what they can and can't do with the tags.  If they violate those rules, they loose the tag or restrictions on next years hunting tags.
-OR-
Give additional land owner tags.  Give the problem location multiple tags, let them hand them out, or sell them to the highest bidder and those funds would help pay for repair costs.

10 to 15 tags would not touch what the problem had grown to. There are too many elk on the valley floor already living there 365  days a year. A 6 month general season might alleviate some of the issues (archery or muzzy).
Yes you hit the nail on the had with the issues/complaints. Several days there were 2 sheriffs and 2 wdfw officers during muzzy season. They also had many of the same issues when it switched to archery.
I know there is no easy solution, there are a lot of elk on the valley floor.

[h2ofowlr]

Just make it a shotgun only hunt and a Skagit County resident only hunt for the valley floor elk.  Or make it a youth only hunt on the valley floor.  All youth 15 and under would be required to be with an experienced adult the entire time they are hunting.  Possibly restrict them to cows only.  I would like to think they may be a little more cautious at that age and if they are with an experienced adult they won't have the influence of other kids to make potential poor decisions.

We see master hunt, trophy hunt, etc.  Open something for the youngsters that will build better hunters hopefully that also provided a unique opportunity.

The farmers could also be involved and see the excitement in the kids and possibly help load their prize with their tractor in the back of their parent rigs.  It could be turned into memorable experience if set up correctly.

[Gringo31]

Really, you are proud of this?  Put up a fence  on your property rather than harrassing the publics resource.   Oh yeah and quit asking me to pay taxes to the state for your crop damage because you won't take responsiblilty for protecting your crops.

So farmers need to feed the states wildlife and be happy about the damage they do

OR

You think private property should all have high fences to keep all the wildlife out. 


Seems the second one would only remove more habitat which is something most people are trying to avoid doing.

[Practical Approach]

Really, you are proud of this?  Put up a fence  on your property rather than harrassing the publics resource.   Oh yeah and quit asking me to pay taxes to the state for your crop damage because you won't take responsiblilty for protecting your crops.

So farmers need to feed the states wildlife and be happy about the damage they do

OR

You think private property should all have high fences to keep all the wildlife out. 


Seems the second one would only remove more habitat which is something most people are trying to avoid doing.

The farmers have the choice to feed the wildlife or not.  They have the choice to farm in elk country, and they have the option to fence elk out if they don't want them impacting their crops. 

Can we really consider it habitat if farmers don't want them there and very few if any hunters have the option to hunt them on their fields. 

I have nothing against the farmers and appreciete most of their patience in dealing with wildlife conflicts, however as with any job or business, you usually need some type of insurance.  In my opininion, a fence is just one more level of insurance for your business.  Yes it is expensive, but it is the cost of doing business.

[TheHunt]

I read the thread and I find that one has to consider the small farms (They have another job and the farm is like a .25 - 20 acre weekend farmers) they can build their own "Elk Fence". 

Adding 20 tags will not even keep the herd at the current levels. 

I have talked to a few people who were thinking about bringing in the "Master Hunter" to reduce the crop damage.  I suggested that they meet with the master hunter to see their skill level and weapon.  If someone could not hit a paper plate at 40 yards with their archery equipment. Could not hit a paper plate at 125 yards with their muzzle stuffer.  Then they show up with a 20 year old bow with aluminum arrows with only one vein fletch to the arrow.  You should tell them to go home and get off your property.