Possible Poaching in enumclaw 3/4

[stormin85]

Just thought i would post and see if anyone had more info on this?

Took the kids to the park, and whenever we head home we will usually go the back way to Buckley so my boys and daughter can see the herd of domesticated elk that live on the farms off of Mud mt. rd. as we came to the bend near one of the farms there they were in the back field, as i pointed them out to my son, i noticed in the nearest field arrow fletchings sticking up out of the ground, at which point i realized this arrow was stuck broadside in a cow elk.

my wife then noticed it as well, there was a couple who were on a bike ride that were sitting there and another vehicle, the vehicle in front of us left and the couple rode their bicycles over to us, the husband said his wife had called the sheriff, i was in the process of calling wdfw, just to see how this was possible, which is where my first question comes, are there any depredation tags that could have been in use?

the husband informed me that the sheriff had said they contacted the wildlife officer for this area and they did not think this was done legally at all, since it was march.

i asked the husband and now wife who was with him if they had seen what happened, she said they pulled up and the "hunter" was out there trying to get his arrow out and they had tried to pull it out with a mini ex but couldn't.

as we were sitting there they opened the gate and headed towards the elk with an Ag tractor, so the husband and wife pulled over there and told the farmer and "hunter" in camo they had called the sheriff and he was on his way. at this point the farmer, i'm assuming, walked towards the couple and said he had contacted them as well and they could leave, then things started getting somewhat heated so i pulled up a bit so my kids didn't have to listen as i stopped a few f bombs were dropped and they were yelling at each other, i decided to stay there in case things got out of hand, fortunately at that point i recognized the wdfw pickup pull around the corner.

the farmer and "hunter" at this point had the elk near the barn and were starting to lift it up so they could skin it i figure, and i stopped and made sure the officer was there for that reason he said yes and was turning around to go and take care of it.

so my question is anyone know of depredation tags in march? why was the "hunter" (using this term loosely as these elk don't leave the two or three farms and are not spooked by anything) wearing camo and bowhunting if not for the fact he was trying to be as inconspicuous as possible? and would the farmer who was obvious allowing the hunter to hunt and attempting to defend the guy, if he was truly poaching, be facing any charges as well?

none the less pretty crazy to actually see all of this go down, i do understand if he was using a dep tag, it may be bow only and that could be a reason for that, however the camo thing throws me off, if you are from enumclaw Buckley or this area and know about these elk you know they are truly just like cattle.

i just hope if he was poaching everything is handle correctly, needless to say the bicyclists were irate and not hunters so this paints a very bad picture of hunters to non hunters in a time when any anti group will use whatever they can.

not saying this was or is their intent, (and i don't know if they were anti hunting or not) but you never know.

fortunately i had the opportunity to tell the couple that i hunted and was just as upset if he was really poaching as this was a bad example to anyone and had to explain to my daughter and son what was going on and why seeing an animal dead like this was different from seeing them when mom or dad are hunting.

any ways any thoughts or comments are appreciated.

[crow killer]

People these days

[rb2506]

I don't understand the difference in hunting ?  Because the hunter shot it on a farm and not in the wilderness?  Or that it might be a poaching case ?

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[h20hunter]

I would think poaching. If is a tag hunt and he whacked a farm elk good for him.

[stormin85]

I don't understand the difference in hunting ?  Because the hunter shot it on a farm and not in the wilderness?  Or that it might be a poaching case ?

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i was saying i don't think its truly hunting if he was poaching the elk. i don't care where anyone hunts it takes a skill even if they are on a farm, however, i use the term hunter loosely when it is in the off season and you have to break rules to do it, if thats what truly happened.

if he did have the tag, i fully support the dep hunts, and the elk can cost farmers money and ruin crops and property, i just hope it was done the correct way, which by the actions of the guys in the field and the officer i dont think it was.

[stormin85]

however like i said this could have been legal, i just wasn't aware if there were any seasons open through march, or if a landowner tag was being used. hopefully it was just didn't know if anyone would have info on how it works.

[rb2506]

I don't understand the difference in hunting ?  Because the hunter shot it on a farm and not in the wilderness?  Or that it might be a poaching case ?

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

i was saying i don't think its truly hunting if he was poaching the elk. i don't care where anyone hunts it takes a skill even if they are on a farm, however, i use the term hunter loosely when it is in the off season and you have to break rules to do it, if thats what truly happened.

if he did have the tag, i fully support the dep hunts, and the elk can cost farmers money and ruin crops and property, i just hope it was done the correct way, which by the actions of the guys in the field and the officer i dont think it was.

Agreed

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[bigtex]

There are depredation tags for that area, unaware if any are there now.

Why does it matter if he is wearing camo? Anytime I am hunting I wear camo, doesn't matter if I am just walking roads for grouse/rabbit and obviously don't need it or deer hunting.

[JLS]

I wear camo to Wal Mart

[Boss .300 winmag]

 One thing you might want to take in consideration is that old school farmers see elk of this nature as no better than wolves, and would become very agitated by tree hugging do gooding by standers getting in there business even if this was on the up and up!
Crop damage is no joke to people who eek out a living of the land they own. 

[dreamunelk]

Check out page 59 in the regs.
Master Hunter tags.
Sounds like one of the R6 tags may have been used.

[stormin85]

i just found it funny that he was wearing camo to hunt these elk, as the rest of the herd was not spooked by him or the tractor and stood there about 40 yards away, nothing wrong with it, thats majority of what i wear everywhere, i just thought it was odd how the events played out. not trying to start an argument, was more curious of the tag situation.

[stormin85]

and that was answered just above me.

[Hawgdawg]

my backyard. Bow only. Not even crossbows allowed one of the few firearm restricted areas that don't alow it! Those elk are out of control. Bruce Richards...Fish and Feathers lives half a mile away and he has those elk named as pets!

[stormin85]

well i hope everything that happened was on one of the landowner tags, and sorry if i made it sound like it was not i just was surprised they ran this far into the beginning of the year, didn't know the dates went that long for them. i was just really thrown off seeing an elk down in march, but if its legit then good for the who got her, looked like a well placed shot.

hopefully people understand the oddness of the situation and that my intent was not to get whoever it was in trouble, if it were legal.

[dreamunelk]

Many elk problems really increase during the hungry times.

[lewy]

  Hopefully it was done legally, if so great. That would be a great herd to give out some damage tags on. Walk out there and pet one of those elk and tell me how tame they are. I guess we shouldnt hunt any of the elk in the yakima herd either, because there acting pretty tame right now too laying against the fence down there at Oak creek......

[stormin85]

i'm not saying they don't need to be shot, they do, those elk do a lot of damage, i have family and friends that live along the whole road just wanted to find out if it was legal, should have done my homework before i posted anything.

[KopperBuck]

Yup.

[ghosthunter]

Ya if I am hunting I wear camo. Just habit. Even rifle season I wear my orange vest over camo. I can see a guy doing it because its just what he wears hunting.

[asl20bball]

I'd f/u with the WDFW officer b/c if it was poaching you can recieve reward points for turning in a poacher... keep us posted on your findings.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/enforcement/reporting_violations.html

On a side note, if it was legal we need more farmers like the one who allowed the "hunter" to hunt his property.

[Boss .300 winmag]

I'd f/u with the WDFW officer b/c if it was poaching you can recieve reward points for turning in a poacher... keep us posted on your findings.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/enforcement/reporting_violations.html

On a side note, if it was legal we need more farmers like the one who allowed the "hunter" to hunt his property.

stormin85 didnt turn anybody in, so he cant get points. 

my wife then noticed it as well, there was a couple who were on a bike ride that were sitting there and another vehicle, the vehicle in front of us left and the couple rode their bicycles over to us, the husband said his wife had called the sheriff, i was in the process of calling wdfw, just to see how this was possible, which is where my first question comes, are there any depredation tags that could have been in use?

the husband informed me that the sheriff had said they contacted the wildlife officer for this area and they did not think this was done legally at all, since it was march

just love how some people are more worried about other peoples bussiness, and getting poacher points.

[bear hunter]

Many years ago I seen a doe that some one shot in the rear hind quieter. It had a arrow in her. I saw her a few times in the spring but the job ended. So I don't know if she made it. I have seen deer that have got shot and healed up. It happens. I don't think the elk was a possible poaching. Just a bad shot during the season.

[headshot5]

Chances are pretty good that it was legal.  Most farmers are not that dumb that they will pick up an elk with a front end loader with the possibility of forefiting it (the tractor) to the WDFW (if it was an illegal elk). 

Good on you folks for getting into someone else's business though.  Makes a good impression on the farmer.  Probably, makes him want to let anybody on his property to hunt (sarcasm text).       

[steen]

If they were domesticated elk were they not the farmer's elk?  That is how I read it but I may have misunderstood it.

[bigtex]

If they were domesticated elk were they not the farmer's elk?  That is how I read it but I may have misunderstood it.

Theyre wild elk, he just means they hangout in an urban area so they get use to people.

Kind of like mallards in a city park may approach people.

[Fireant11]

As stated earlier in the thread, there is a Master Hunter permit hunt that runs until March 31.  It's the Region 4 South permit (Hunt choice 2713 in the regs).   I know one of the WDFW officers who is overseeing this hunt.  I last talked with him about a week ago and he said there was a Master Hunter on call to hunt that area.  This is a bow hunt, so chances are, it was a legal deprivation hunt. 

As for the camo, whenever I hunt, I prefer to have my camo pants on because of all the pocket space.

[huntingfool7]

I wonder if anyone would have noticed this if the guy was wearing coveralls. 

I used to hunt deer on Vashon/Maury islands.  Always thought a guy should wear jogging attire and a 44 in a shoulder holster...maybe even a tie dyed t-shirt.

[Sniper101]

 

Chances are pretty good that it was legal.  Most farmers are not that dumb that they will pick up an elk with a front end loader with the possibility of forefiting it (the tractor) to the WDFW (if it was an illegal elk). 

Good on you folks for getting into someone else's business though.  Makes a good impression on the farmer.  Probably, makes him want to let anybody on his property to hunt (sarcasm text).     

[notellumcreek]

I would have called it in too, I have never heard of anyone using a depredation tag on the farms on the south side of Enumclaw and have lived there for 24 years. About time someone uses one of those tags in that area. My dad included, there are a few land owners in the mt. peak area that would love to see this herd thin out. Unfortunately hunting pressure and being bow only have kinda made the area a hangout for the elk, and the elk numbers are climbing very quickly.

[Sniper101]

if it was illegal they wouldn't be doing it in the middle of the day, right next to the ROAD, and the farmer probally wouldn't be helping. Farmers arnt stupid about things like this, one wouldn't do something that stupid. You don't need to waste the oficials time and get in the farmers hair about somthin on HIS property that is absolutley none of your business. Does that cow elk dying in that farmers field effect you at all?? Probally not, doubt you would of had the chance to shoot it.

[skywalker253]

if it was illegal they wouldn't be doing it in the middle of the day, right next to the ROAD, and the farmer probally wouldn't be helping. Farmers arnt stupid about things like this, one wouldn't do something that stupid. You don't need to waste the oficials time and get in the farmers hair about somthin on HIS property that is absolutley none of your business. Does that cow elk dying in that farmers field effect you at all?? Probally not, doubt you would of had the chance to shoot it.

As soon as I see the farmer helping, that would tell me that it is likely a legal harvest. I don't blame the guy for calling the game department, considering it was in March. How often have any of us on Hunt-Wa seen a deprivation hunt take place; unless you were apart of it? I am guessing only a few people have actually witnessed one take place. I would not have called it in with the farmer there; however had he not been present I would have definately called it in. No harm, no foul, and you did the right thing. I don't think the guy was searching for poacher points. He was doing the right thing and trying to protect the reputation of our fellow hunters. Give the guy a break...

[Dan-o]

BREAKING NEWS:   Possible Legal hunt in enumclaw

[skywalker253]

if it was illegal they wouldn't be doing it in the middle of the day, right next to the ROAD, and the farmer probally wouldn't be helping. Farmers arnt stupid about things like this, one wouldn't do something that stupid. You don't need to waste the oficials time and get in the farmers hair about somthin on HIS property that is absolutley none of your business. Does that cow elk dying in that farmers field effect you at all?? Probally not, doubt you would of had the chance to shoot it.

And the first part of your post, is a very naive statement. You would be suprised how careless and stupid people can be. I turned a guy in this year that poached a deer in front of at least 20 other hunters. All the hunters were looking at eachother in dis-belief. The incident happened 100 yards from 2 main intersecting roads, which are like a freeway during hunting season. The guy flat shot the deer and kept walking, while laughing and joking with his KIDS! as if it was no big deal. Not to mention he was firing rounds towards the main power grid for PSE with workers present, tresspassing, etc. The farmer and fellow hunters were very grateful I turned the guy in for his stupidity and poor example he illistrated for his kids. What was has been posted a "no hunting" area for years, will now potentially become open by "written permission". I have been working with the land owner since the incident in hopes he will open up some of his ground to us hunters.

[stormin85]

i guess i should have made it more clear, i called wdfw before i saw anyone near the elk, it just had an arrow in it i was going to notify them of a dead elk, then the couple on the bike came over to me and said they had already contacted the sheriff, so since i was getting nobody i left it at that, my first and only concern was the elk with the arrow in it, then what happened afterwards did not involve me, nobody was in the field or near there for about another ten minutes when they came out with the ag tractor.

that is where my questions came in, i did not think a farmer would be that careless, to haul an illegally harvested elk near a road in the middle of the day/afternoon, but i wasn't sure. i wasn't trying to get into anybody's business, and i wasn't ripping on the hunter for wearing camo there was sarcasm on my part because i thought he might be poaching and was just making a joke as to why wear camo to poach elk that are pretty used to the sight of people, not to make an argument of camo, no camo, whether it works, if its pointless, just a sarcastic remark.

i understand now there is a unit open, however i did not know there was any hunting into march, now i know.

without question this herd needs to be thinned, and unfortunately for this farmer and hunter it probably didn't go how they hoped, we all know even with a good shot sometimes these things run a ways, maybe thats why it got so close to the road, i know they wouldn't want all of the attention they got. but i am sure it was as ethical as possible, but again understand where my question came from, i just wasn't sure, next time i wont put any pointless commentary or sarcasm in.

and even if i had turned in what looked like a poacher, i didn't want or need any points i dont put in for draws, the only reason i called was there was a dead elk, but according to the couple it was being handled. and when the wdfw arrived he made it sound as if he would handle what had happened, that could mean either thing, take care of the upset couple because they were in shock from seeing a dead animal, or take care of the guy who shot it, but not knowing the situation it was left at that. thats where the question of legality came up, because before this to my knowledge, everything was closed.

hopefully everyone understands what im saying didn't want to get people pissed off, but thats on me.

regardless, sounds like this was all legal and glad to see someone get some meat.

[skywalker253]

i guess i should have made it more clear, i called wdfw before i saw anyone near the elk, it just had an arrow in it i was going to notify them of a dead elk, then the couple on the bike came over to me and said they had already contacted the sheriff, so since i was getting nobody i left it at that, my first and only concern was the elk with the arrow in it, then what happened afterwards did not involve me, nobody was in the field or near there for about another ten minutes when they came out with the ag tractor.

that is where my questions came in, i did not think a farmer would be that careless, to haul an illegally harvested elk near a road in the middle of the day/afternoon, but i wasn't sure. i wasn't trying to get into anybody's business, and i wasn't ripping on the hunter for wearing camo there was sarcasm on my part because i thought he might be poaching and was just making a joke as to why wear camo to poach elk that are pretty used to the sight of people, not to make an argument of camo, no camo, whether it works, if its pointless, just a sarcastic remark.

i understand now there is a unit open, however i did not know there was any hunting into march, now i know.

without question this herd needs to be thinned, and unfortunately for this farmer and hunter it probably didn't go how they hoped, we all know even with a good shot sometimes these things run a ways, maybe thats why it got so close to the road, i know they wouldn't want all of the attention they got. but i am sure it was as ethical as possible, but again understand where my question came from, i just wasn't sure, next time i wont put any pointless commentary or sarcasm in.

and even if i had turned in what looked like a poacher, i didn't want or need any points i dont put in for draws, the only reason i called was there was a dead elk, but according to the couple it was being handled. and when the wdfw arrived he made it sound as if he would handle what had happened, that could mean either thing, take care of the upset couple because they were in shock from seeing a dead animal, or take care of the guy who shot it, but not knowing the situation it was left at that. thats where the question of legality came up, because before this to my knowledge, everything was closed.

hopefully everyone understands what im saying didn't want to get people pissed off, but thats on me.

regardless, sounds like this was all legal and glad to see someone get some meat.

Don't feel bad and you don't need to apologize for anything. Public forums are full of meatballs, who know everything about everything. Everyone has an opinion of what is right or wrong in their mind, and you definately won't change their minds on here. You will find Hunt-Wa has several know it all's, who spend more time on here then in the woods hunting. I started reading this site in 2007 as a non-member and thought it was a joke. Then I decided some of it is actually worth reading. Then I joined last Fall and voiced a few opinions and made a few comments. Some agreed with; some not. Now I just say what I want and I don't care if I piss off the entire forum.

[kirkl]

Dont sweat it on this forum, ur damned if ya do and damned if you dont. These know it alls would be saying why didnt you call the gamie if you woulda said you just drove off after seein what you did.

[sakoshooter]

i guess i should have made it more clear, i called wdfw before i saw anyone near the elk, it just had an arrow in it i was going to notify them of a dead elk, then the couple on the bike came over to me and said they had already contacted the sheriff, so since i was getting nobody i left it at that, my first and only concern was the elk with the arrow in it, then what happened afterwards did not involve me, nobody was in the field or near there for about another ten minutes when they came out with the ag tractor.

that is where my questions came in, i did not think a farmer would be that careless, to haul an illegally harvested elk near a road in the middle of the day/afternoon, but i wasn't sure. i wasn't trying to get into anybody's business, and i wasn't ripping on the hunter for wearing camo there was sarcasm on my part because i thought he might be poaching and was just making a joke as to why wear camo to poach elk that are pretty used to the sight of people, not to make an argument of camo, no camo, whether it works, if its pointless, just a sarcastic remark.

i understand now there is a unit open, however i did not know there was any hunting into march, now i know.

without question this herd needs to be thinned, and unfortunately for this farmer and hunter it probably didn't go how they hoped, we all know even with a good shot sometimes these things run a ways, maybe thats why it got so close to the road, i know they wouldn't want all of the attention they got. but i am sure it was as ethical as possible, but again understand where my question came from, i just wasn't sure, next time i wont put any pointless commentary or sarcasm in.

and even if i had turned in what looked like a poacher, i didn't want or need any points i dont put in for draws, the only reason i called was there was a dead elk, but according to the couple it was being handled. and when the wdfw arrived he made it sound as if he would handle what had happened, that could mean either thing, take care of the upset couple because they were in shock from seeing a dead animal, or take care of the guy who shot it, but not knowing the situation it was left at that. thats where the question of legality came up, because before this to my knowledge, everything was closed.

hopefully everyone understands what im saying didn't want to get people pissed off, but thats on me.

regardless, sounds like this was all legal and glad to see someone get some meat.

I commend you for calling the law. Too many folks don't get involved. They just post opinions on forums.
We've got to protect this sport of ours at all costs.

[Sniper101]

if it was illegal they wouldn't be doing it in the middle of the day, right next to the ROAD, and the farmer probally wouldn't be helping. Farmers arnt stupid about things like this, one wouldn't do something that stupid. You don't need to waste the oficials time and get in the farmers hair about somthin on HIS property that is absolutley none of your business. Does that cow elk dying in that farmers field effect you at all?? Probally not, doubt you would of had the chance to shoot it.

And the first part of your post, is a very naive statement. You would be suprised how careless and stupid people can be. I turned a guy in this year that poached a deer in front of at least 20 other hunters. All the hunters were looking at eachother in dis-belief. The incident happened 100 yards from 2 main intersecting roads, which are like a freeway during hunting season. The guy flat shot the deer and kept walking, while laughing and joking with his KIDS! as if it was no big deal. Not to mention he was firing rounds towards the main power grid for PSE with workers present, tresspassing, etc. The farmer and fellow hunters were very grateful I turned the guy in for his stupidity and poor example he illistrated for his kids. What was has been posted a "no hunting" area for years, will now potentially become open by "written permission". I have been working with the land owner since the incident in hopes he will open up some of his ground to us hunters.

but the farmer wasnt helping, was he? No. if the farmers helping in the harvest on his own land then chances are nothings wrong. Who knows how that elk could of been effecting the farmers crops.

[baker5150]

THats a tough situation to be in. Especially if your a hunter yourself.

Instinctivlly I would call the local Gamie, but at the same time in hindsight if it were me shooting the elk, legally of course, I would be a bit upset if onlookers started in on me about poaching. 

[Muleyhunter47]

I live in this area see the heard of elk everyday. I know for a fact they give out degradation permits. However weather or not he had one is the questions and i have not heard of hunting elk in march even with this permit.

[dreamunelk]

Reporting was the correct thing to do.  Let WDFW officers determine if it was legit or not.   My be is it was but,  You never know.  There are some stupid people out there.

[Old Mule]

Just a couple of comments, good for you for calling, also those Elk aren't that tame when they get Hunting pressure they smarten up quick.  I would like to see permits that all can apply for not just the Master Hunters, when they moved the White River boundary south the Heard started growing sometimes I see over 100 Elk in the morning, It's better to have someone harvest them than to have the City of Buckley take them with the Backhoe  and dump them in the woods when they get hit by Cars.

[Hawgdawg]

Good Morning!
Ole Mule...you just wake up out of hibernation? This thread is a month old. The legit hunter and farmer have eaten most of that grain fed cow by now, they just haven't got over the do gooders that ruined there day.